Di2 Vs. Sven Nys

[BrandonT]

Having watched almost all of the Cyclocross races recently I have noticed that Sven has been having some trouble with chain dropping and the other night it appeared that his rear derailluer just decided to come off.

I know that he and Niels Albert are both running Di2 on the majority of thier bikes but Niels doesnt appear to be having the same issues.

Has anyone heard anything about why Sven is having issues? Is his mechanic not setting it up properly? Or is that just the luck of Cross?

 

[Feldy82]

I remember an article during the Tour about Mic. Rodgers and his Di chain coming off. The article said that he had changed his chain ring to a larger size and the Di did not recognize the switch. I wonder if the same thing is happening with Nys's.

 

[vala-vala]

Jempy Drucker and his new team H2O-TELTEC

I am looking for information about the new team Jempy Drucker (h2o teltec) and his new bike (occp). I hope that somebody can send me some photo.

 

[BrandonT]

I have seen yet another example of Nys dropping his chain. So in 4 out of the last 8 races he has had a mechanical issue. That is a serious problem.

 

[kiwirider]

I have seen yet another example of Nys dropping his chain. So in 4 out of the last 8 races he has had a mechanical issue. That is a serious problem.

Is this a good time to make a cynical comment and to question the judgement of the 3500 or so people who voted for Di2 as the "Tech Innovation of 2009" in the CN poll???

And yes, before anyone asks - I am one of the people who talks about Di2 being a "solution looking for a problem" and, like you Brandon T, I agree that if it's not handling the chain ring combination that Nys is running and keeps seeing him drop chains, then it is a serious problem. Although, as I'm not particularly a Nys fan, I'm maybe not that concerned about him finding a solution to it ...

 

[BrandonT]

I suppose that Niels' mechanics have it figured out because I haven't heard nor seen him with a mechanical problem this year. He has all 5 of his race bikes decked out in the Electronic? I think he does...

Another point...You don't see a lot of guys riding the non electric 7900 in the Euro cyclocross peloton. Klass and Sven (Sunweb) are still riding on 7800. It probably has to do with the gaping hole under the brake lever.
Is it just me or is Shimano not Cyclocross friendly? They don't make cranks, rings or brakes and the new Dura-ace and Ultegra brake/shift levers are not really great for Cross. The only Shimano parts I want for my Cross bike are the C35's Sven Nys has been using for the last two seasons. I think they will give the 303's a real run for thier money.

 

[kiwirider]

Is it just me or is Shimano not Cyclocross friendly?

From what I understand, the main reason for Shimano having such a historical dominance in cross equipment is that Campag specifically exclude the use of their groupsets on the dirt in their warranties - and hence don't supply it to pro teams. I do know that, as "Joe Consumer", when I asked Campag about using their gruppos on a cross bike I got a very, very terse response saying "don't!! It's not designed for it!!". (As a slight digression - I can't understand Campag's attitude, as their stuff works great on the dirt and the Campag on my bike now is much more robust (in the sense of working despite fouling with dirt, crash damage and generally taking the punishment of cross training and racing) than the Shimano that my bike came with.)

It seems that the only company who is showing a consistent interest in cross specific components is SRAM. Reading Simon Burney's blog/site, he says that SRAM are actually taking an active interest in how their gear goes on the dirt and are taking regular feedback from the teams who are using it ... which may explain in part why it is making such inroads into the cross peloton ...

 

[BrandonT]

It seems that the only company who is showing a consistent interest in cross specific components is SRAM. Reading Simon Burney's blog/site, he says that SRAM are actually taking an active interest in how their gear goes on the dirt and are taking regular feedback from the teams who are using it ... which may explain in part why it is making such inroads into the cross peloton ...

I agree! I switched my race bike to Force (from Ultegra SL) mid way through the season and I am definetly not regretting it.
You can also see it in some of the ad's and photo's taken of Sram equiped bikes. The "red" front derailluer and cassette are definetly not cross friendly but Sram is making adjustments so that they are. They also have cross rings and cranks. The new Avid Shorty Ultimates look brilliant and I look forward to my set. Stybar has had them for a little while now and they seem to be working.

I would really like to try some 10 spd campy on a cross bike in the future. Veloce? Or the new Athena?

 

[kiwirider]

I would really like to try some 10 spd campy on a cross bike in the future. Veloce? Or the new Athena?

Mine's primarily Veloce for two reasons ...

First is 'cos there's no real advantage of going any higher in the gruppo range. Checking out the spares catalogues on Campag's site (you need to look at 2009 as they've bunched the workings of the Ergo levers into one "part" for 2010) it shows that the important part of the workings are the same for Veloce as all of the higher gruppos. I mean, the only real difference between Veloce and Super Record is the carbon lever and the 11 speed gear change ratchet.

(This is one of the reasons I love Campag ... Campag - and SRAM also now - traditionally roll out more of the top gruppo technology throughout their range than Shimano, so you get better equipment throughout the range. And then since you can see most of the working parts in the spares catalogue, it makes it possible to be a smart consumer and get the best bang for your buck. That said, I have been known to buy Record bits over Chorus for the roadie just 'cos it's Record ... )

Second is the fact that I have to pay for my own parts and as there was no real functional difference I decided to stick with the cheaper levers and rear derailleur since these are the most likely to be damaged if (when??) I prang the bike.

As for using Athena - I haven't heard of anyone using the 11 speed on the dirt, so have no idea how it'd go - but the MTBer in me likes the bigger spacing and more robust chain that goes with the 10 speed set up ...

 

[BrandonT]

I was watching a race from earlier this season yesterday and noticed that Jonathan Page is running non electric 7900 including the prototype crank. There is also this http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/jonathan-pages-planet-bike-blue-norcross which some how got past me.

I wonder if they will ever bring those cranks/rings to market. As there is a market for them, although I doubt I would spend the money on them.

On the Campy side I think I am going to order a set of Centaur, I agree that the 11 speed might not be very good with the thinner chain and the smaller cassette spacing.

 

[James Huang]

BrandonT:

That's not a prototype crank on Page's bike. It's a standard 7900 crank but with a 7800 outer ring:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/jonathan-pages-planet-bike-blue-norcross/99528

 

[kiwirider]

On the Campy side I think I am going to order a set of Centaur, I agree that the 11 speed might not be very good with the thinner chain and the smaller cassette spacing.

Hey, keep us posted on how it goes in the mud and general bashing about that a cross bike gets... Some of the ratio combinations that are possible with the 11 look quite interesting, so I was tempted when I made the swap on my bike - and could well be tempted again ....

 

[BrandonT]

BrandonT:

That's not a prototype crank on Page's bike. It's a standard 7900 crank but with a 7800 outer ring:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/jonathan-pages-planet-bike-blue-norcross/99528

Sorry for my mistake, I quickly read over the side bar on the feature and thought I read 7900.

Nys/Albert do have the prototype rings though? I know I have seen them somewhere.

I believe I am going to stick with Centaur (which is 10 spd). 1X11 would probably be pretty sweet though. Might run into chainline issues though.

 

[elmar schrauth]

Every cyclocrosser kills one or two derraileurs a season

 

[BrandonT]

I've noticed a lot of 7900 series in the photo's from Worlds practice. The U23's are all running it as well. I guess the transition just took a little while?

 

[TheDude]

On the Campy side I think I am going to order a set of Centaur, I agree that the 11 speed might not be very good with the thinner chain and the smaller cassette spacing.

My Cannondale CAAD 9 is Centaur equipped. It is great. Mind you I don't race, but do treat it hard (got to fix a puncture in the morning that I picked up going off the shoulder on the way home tonight). I think if I raced, I'd put Veloce derailur and freewheel casette - cheap to replace. I love the feel of the current hoods. If I raced, I'd probably set up with a single chainwheel.

 

[elmar schrauth]

Alberts mechanic said, that there is less work on bikes, since he rides the Di 2.

 

[BrandonT]

I finally got a Veloce rear derailleur and now am just waiting on my shifters. I am going to run 1x10 on a X-Fire. This may be a stupid question but can I use a Shimano cassette?

I believe that the Di2 bikes would be a lot easier to deal with for the mechanics. The derailleur's auto adjusts and the cables would rarely need replacement. I just spoke to someone that bought Di2 and had to get a hanger special made for his frame. The hanger was to thick and the rear derailleur couldnt adjust itself, it would just keep hitting the hanger.

 

[kiwirider]

I finally got a Veloce rear derailleur and now am just waiting on my shifters. I am going to run 1x10 on a X-Fire. This may be a stupid question but can I use a Shimano cassette?

You can ... provided you are only using a 9 speed Shimano cassette and can pull the cassette to bits and fit Campag compatible spacers in between the cogs. And in saying this, I'm assuming that you're talking about fitting it onto a Shimano wheel? The splines on Campag and Shimano freehubs are different so (subject to a bunch of crafty Dutch who've built a cassette that apparently fits on both freehub types) you can't mix and match like that ...

I did this on my cross bike when I changed over to Campag but still had some life left in my Shimano wheels that came with the bike (translated: I was being tight and wanted to delay building up new wheels as long as I could!). It worked OK - definitely not as good as when I was running it all on Campag once I built the new wheels.

If you do go this route, a hard learned word of advice is to make sure that you have enough of the smallest cog teeth engaging on the freehub and enough threading to securely lock in the lock ring with the new spacing! A friend loaned me some wheels where the lock ring didn't quite bite fully (although I swear to this day that if I'd cranked any harder I'd have stripped the thread on the freehub). I was using the bike on the road and was stomping on the pedals in the 53x12 at the bottom of a hill (Blacks in Gatineau Park for those who know the area) when the 12 spun off! The effect was like breaking a chain ... which meant me and pavement (and grass verge) got a lot better acquainted than I'd like ...

So, I guess if you wanted a "Readers' Digest" version of all of this - yes you can, but if you don't have to ... don't!

 

[BrandonT]

I did this on my cross bike when I changed over to Campag but still had some life left in my Shimano wheels that came with the bike (translated: I was being tight and wanted to delay building up new wheels as long as I could!). It worked OK - definitely not as good as when I was running it all on Campag once I built the new wheels.

This is precisely why I would prefer not to have to change over a pile of freehub bodies to Campy, I am being tight. I have three pair of cross wheels and they are all Shimano. I bought a new pair of tubulars and was going to build or buy another set of wheels. I suppose Shimano C36's are out... I have heard that the Campy cassettes are better, do you agree?

 

[kiwirider]

This is precisely why I would prefer not to have to change over a pile of freehub bodies to Campy, I am being tight. I have three pair of cross wheels and they are all Shimano. I bought a new pair of tubulars and was going to build or buy another set of wheels. I suppose Shimano C36's are out... I have heard that the Campy cassettes are better, do you agree?

Can't honestly say as I've only ever had two Shimano cassettes - one that came with my MTB about 11 years ago and lasted for ages and one that came with my cross bike and wore out in no time flat ... As the cross bike is the more recent one, maybe that's a better indication of their quality? Campag cassettes have been consistently good though ...

If you're wanting to hang onto the wheels, other options you can look at include getting one of the American Classic conversion cassettes (Campag spaced, Shimano splined) - although I had a hard time trying to find anyone out east who could get them for me ... There is at least one other crowd who also make conversion cassettes.

Another option - and this depends on whether by "Shimano wheels" you mean made by them or just with a shimano splined freehub - is that some of the hub manufacturers actually have Campag and Shimano splined freehubs as spares, so you could buy a freehub and change it over.