What's going on leading up to the giro we thought he was goint to crush everybody maybe it's too early but in this giro there are too few sprinter's stages.
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Dominance of Cavendish
- Thread starter franciep10
- Start date
I just posted this in the Giro stage 3 thread:
Cavendish got dropped like a stone on that last climb. Of course he was in the chase group that was hammering to catch the leaders, but I didn't see him take any pulls. No way he makes it over the mountains within the time cuts - I don't think even a top-off with blood from the fridge is going to help him out if he's suffering that badly on the 3rd day. Points jersey is Ale-Jet's to lose.
I don't see Cav dominating anything.
Cavendish got dropped like a stone on that last climb. Of course he was in the chase group that was hammering to catch the leaders, but I didn't see him take any pulls. No way he makes it over the mountains within the time cuts - I don't think even a top-off with blood from the fridge is going to help him out if he's suffering that badly on the 3rd day. Points jersey is Ale-Jet's to lose.
I don't see Cav dominating anything.
BikeCentric said:
Maybe he realised he was not going to catch the lead group and backed off? This rumour that he cannot climb is exagerated, he seemed to do okay at MSR!
BikeCentric said:
I may be wrong, but from watching the universal sports coverage, Cavendish was dropped along with half the peloton due to a huge crash (note the huge group of guys finishing 1.25 back). Guys were standing there trying to get past it for what seemed like minutes and Cav made a valiant effort to catch back up with one of his teammates, but the other teams in the main peloton not held up really dropped the hammer up front to make sure he didn't come back in his small group of ~6 riders.
It may be his inexperience for being too far back in the group and getting caught in this misfortune, but please try to leave doping talk out of it. Innocent until proven guilty, and you're just insulting the sport we all love with your speculation.
BikeCentric said:
i know i've replied to this already, but it just beggars belief. do you actually watch and understand the giro? or cycling generally?
Seemed like he got beat by a cagey veteran on Stage 2 and today just had the same crap luck as half the peleton. On the other hand someone like Zabel or Robbie in their prime makes it back and contests for the sprint.
IMO, Cav is still probably the fastest, just learned a couple of important lessons, he's only what 23?
IMO, Cav is still probably the fastest, just learned a couple of important lessons, he's only what 23?
stefrees said:
Yeah I saw Cavendish get dropped on the hill after failing to bridge back to the main group while wheelsucking in a chase group. That's why he lost the pink jersey. What am I missing, do you want to spell it out for me? What's with your trolling?
I didn't see the stage, but according to the live Italian radio broadcast he and team director Valerio Piva exchanged some harsh words in the closing kilometers. Apparently Cavendish was complaining of lack of teammates.Snake8 said:
BikeCentric said:
not sure what is meant by trolling. Cav actually made a pointed effort with that small group to get back on-if he wasn't in pink he wouldnt have made the chase-he wasnt going to win. I'm just trying to put the point across as Cav is getting a ridiculously unfair slagging off.
BikeCentric said:
he got caught up behind an accident in the main pelaton like many people.. when he finally got out of the accident without about 3 team mates (including EBH and Pinotti), he was 45 seconds down on the lead group. (this was with 8km to go).. they gave it a bit of a go to catch up, realised they could make the time back in the distance and dropped back into the main field..
And if you look at the listings the teammates with him also finished in that group, so in which case pinotti and EbH are both rubbish as well.... when you saw cavvy on his own on the hill, cavvy was actually just off the front of the main pelaton trying to claw some time back (have just rewatched the incident.. the joys of sky+)
so youre not a troll.. but the original poster is talking a complete and utter load of hogwash...
[suggestion.. watch todays stage before posting about it later]
What this goes to show is that calling someone a forgone winner of a jersey prior to the race is stupid. I recall he was the only one this year who was going to win GW...didn't happen. Now this...and I just heard (read it somewhere) how he was going to win the green jersey in the TdF later this summer. Rediculous! That is why they race. This just goes to show how competitive pro cycling really is.
It also goes to show that Cavendish cannot rely on his talent and intrinsic capacity alone to win stages in a grand tour. He needs to be in top form and race with full dedication to beat other sprinters that might have less capacity (I say 'might') but are far more concentrated, motivated and dedicated to perform well in the Giro/Tour/Vuelta. He's obviously not in top shape, and said himself that he was lazy in the 2nd stage sprint. Ergo, he gets beaten by Petacchi and his grinta, and it wasn't even a close finish. It's a bit sad that after only a year of relative sprinting dominance, Cavendish has already gotten lazy and overconfident, thinking that he can win every bunch sprint with his eyes closed (or so it seems). McEwen, Boonen, Farrar and Haussler already gave him a good run for his money this season, and now Petacchi beats him fair and square. I think he'll have to get his act together again if he really wants to battle for green in the Tour. If he's up against riders like Freire, Bennati, Hushovd and perhaps Boonen, he'll have to race every stage with full focus, and ride every sprint as if it were the world championships, instead of assuming he'll blast to victory in the last 50 metres anyway. Every other sprinter is now keen on beating Cavendish, and they'll adopt new strategies and tactics to do so. Just his speed alone won't get him the green jersey I'm afraid.
dimspace said:he got caught up behind an accident in the main pelaton like many people.. when he finally got out of the accident without about 3 team mates (including EBH and Pinotti), he was 45 seconds down on the lead group. (this was with 8km to go).. they gave it a bit of a go to catch up, realised they could make the time back in the distance and dropped back into the main field..
And if you look at the listings the teammates with him also finished in that group, so in which case pinotti and EbH are both rubbish as well.... when you saw cavvy on his own on the hill, cavvy was actually just off the front of the main pelaton trying to claw some time back (have just rewatched the incident.. the joys of sky+)
so youre not a troll.. but the original poster is talking a complete and utter load of hogwash...
[suggestion.. watch todays stage before posting about it later]
Hey I don't know if you're talking about me or Bike Centric but all I'm saying is that we talked about the lack of great sprinters and we all thought cav was gonna clean up the stages I wasn't counting yesterday as a failure for Cav as he was held up by a crash but there aren't a lot of stages for Cav in this Giro so he needs to capitalize on the few chances he has.
I agree with Jasper...Cav is not in good form. He is a heck of a fast guy...but there are plenty who can and will beat him if he is not at his best!
Well he has had a bit of illness before the romandie and arrived in italy in less than top shape by his and Rod Ellingworth's admission.
Do people not think that being frankly over critical of what is a still very young and relatively in-experienced 23 year old the first time he does not win a sprint is a little unfair? A measure of the impact he has made on the peloton methinks, and to think that he is only going to get better.
Now give the lad a break!
Do people not think that being frankly over critical of what is a still very young and relatively in-experienced 23 year old the first time he does not win a sprint is a little unfair? A measure of the impact he has made on the peloton methinks, and to think that he is only going to get better.
Now give the lad a break!
You give the lad a break all you want....if he wasn't so cocksure and boisterous he may get a little break...but he brings it on himself. I'll stick to my opinion and you can have yours.
franciep10 said:
it was bikecentrics comment about him being dropped.. it was much more of a matter of in the wrong place and the wrong time and getting caught up behind the crash rather than being dropped..
its two stages.. hes got a TTT win, 2nd in stage and has held the pink jersey.. i think thats not a bad result for him at his age..
he was never ever going to challenge for the points jersey in the giro because of the way the points comp is structured, and theres a couple more sprint stages to come.. lets all discuss his performance at the end of the giro..
one thing positive for me in cavvys performance so far, is he actually contested the intermediate sprint on stage 2, thats something he didnt do in the tour at all last year, and if he is serious about winning the green jersey in the summer he needs to think about not just stage victories, but also the intermediate sprints.. you can win the green jersey in the tour without winning stages, you just have to be consistent in not just stage finishes, but the various bundles of intermediate sprints there are along the way.. something boonen, and before him zabel where extremely good at...
so seeing him able to compete along the way, and at the finish is a good sign..
Folks - I'm well aware that Cav got caught behind the crash which initially gapped him off the main field. But the point remains that he got dropped out of his group on that climb while trying to get back on to the front. Any pro rider in the pink jersey NEEDS to bury himself to get back to the front group in that situation, and if that rider also happens to be one of the best sprinters in the world he needs to dig extra deep because he's got a shot at a stage win and keeping his jersey.
Cav got dropped and failed to do both of those things. It's just an observation of what happenned. Now if you are a Cavendish fan and you think I'm being extra harsh on your boy, that's not the point I was trying to make. I bring this up not to belittle him, but because it certainly appears he is not on top form, and this is notable because he's one of the best (if not the best) sprinters in the bunch.
Anyway, I'm pretty surprised that I get comments from people that "it looks like I didn't watch the stage" and "I must know nothing about bike racing" for making my prior post. Let's avoid the insulting tone and just talk about the racing eh? Now I'm sorry if I offended any of you Cav fans, because again that was not my point in that post.
Cav got dropped and failed to do both of those things. It's just an observation of what happenned. Now if you are a Cavendish fan and you think I'm being extra harsh on your boy, that's not the point I was trying to make. I bring this up not to belittle him, but because it certainly appears he is not on top form, and this is notable because he's one of the best (if not the best) sprinters in the bunch.
Anyway, I'm pretty surprised that I get comments from people that "it looks like I didn't watch the stage" and "I must know nothing about bike racing" for making my prior post. Let's avoid the insulting tone and just talk about the racing eh? Now I'm sorry if I offended any of you Cav fans, because again that was not my point in that post.
BikeCentric said:
He didn't get dropped out of that group. If you watch the finish or check the results, he finished with the group you are referring to.
That's the problem with internet sport fans. You either get 1st place in every race you enter, or you are called an "out of shape, over-rated rider".
Cavendish didn't exactly get dropped from his group, but riders like Menchov, Gerrans and Rodriguez (and perhaps also Petrov) were in the small chasing group and gave an extra effort on the last "bump" to get a smaller time deficit, so they wound up leaving him (and some others) behind. That's why Cav ended in the last 2nd group behind the main field.
Besides that, I didn't exactly see Cav "wheelsucking" all of the time. When the first view of Cavendish's chasing group was seen, Cav himself was in front along with a team mate, so obviously he used some powers himself.
Conclusion:
Cavendish spend some personal effort trying to bridge the gap, thus leaving him left with to little power when the big guns decided to go "all out" on the last uphill. You can't predict anything about his ability to stay at the front in such a stage based on the way this particular stage evolved.
Besides that, I didn't exactly see Cav "wheelsucking" all of the time. When the first view of Cavendish's chasing group was seen, Cav himself was in front along with a team mate, so obviously he used some powers himself.
Conclusion:
Cavendish spend some personal effort trying to bridge the gap, thus leaving him left with to little power when the big guns decided to go "all out" on the last uphill. You can't predict anything about his ability to stay at the front in such a stage based on the way this particular stage evolved.
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