Doping according to some

Apr 18, 2009
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It seems some people use these standards to determine if a rider must be doping:

* He's fast.
* He wins races.
* He doesn't win lots of races.
* He wasn't as fast, and now he's faster.
* He won races and was fast, and isn't now.
* He competes in a lot of races.
* He competes in few races.
* If a cheater who got caught says so, no matter how many other lies and falshoods that person has spread.

Others?

I love bike racing, and I hope they keep catching these guys and cleaning things up, but man oh man does it get boring to listen to all the blah blah blah about doping, so much of which is just unsubstantiated rumors that in many cases are "damned if you do, damned if you don't".
 
Mar 19, 2009
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The blinkered naivete of the OP is amazing.

Case after case after case after case after case after case after case...

I got sick of them all a while ago. It's a great sport but as filthy as hell. You can NOT get behind anyone to support.
 
Apr 18, 2009
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Animal said:
The blinkered naivete of the OP is amazing.

Case after case after case after case after case after case after case...

I got sick of them all a while ago. It's a great sport but as filthy as hell. You can NOT get behind anyone to support.
There are a lot of them. But some do race clean, and they need support, not blanket condemnation of the whole sport/peleton. Of course, no one knows precisely who they are, so it's impossible to single them out for support either. Never said it was easy, but I'd rather just sit back and watch the races, as it's a beautiful, wonderful sport.

I'm just pointing out how some people seem to cry "doper!", even in opposing circumstances - he's gotten faster, he's on the juice - he got slower, he must have been on the juice then. It gets tedious.
 
May 14, 2009
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davidw said:
It seems some people use these standards to determine if a rider must be doping

Others?
First are:
Average cyclismag power
Classification on a GT when EPO or blood transfusion are commonly used, currently top 20!
Team and DS
His doctor
 
Mar 11, 2009
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davidw said:
It seems some people use these standards to determine if a rider must be doping:

* He's fast.
* He wins races.
* He doesn't win lots of races.
* He wasn't as fast, and now he's faster.
* He won races and was fast, and isn't now.
* He competes in a lot of races.
* He competes in few races.
* If a cheater who got caught says so, no matter how many other lies and falshoods that person has spread.

Others?

I love bike racing, and I hope they keep catching these guys and cleaning things up, but man oh man does it get boring to listen to all the blah blah blah about doping, so much of which is just unsubstantiated rumors that in many cases are "damned if you do, damned if you don't".


he's from spain/italy/germany/former soviet-union/belgium/netherlands

that's enough nowadays
 
Mar 19, 2009
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nobody said:
First are:
Average cyclismag power
Classification on a GT when EPO or blood transfusion are commonly used, currently top 20!
Team and DS
His doctor
You do not know their power without the power files from a power meter (un tampered with...)
I'd say almost every Tour finisher is doped. The "pace" is so incredibly high that clean riders would have to DNF due to the timecut. Maybe every single one that reaches Paris is doped. Sit back and watch a big show. Thats what it is, entertainment.

I thought by this point some person or group would be pushing to legalize doping. Thats a tangible goal. Stopping doping will never ever happen ever as long as money is to be made.

Why do people want to fight doping and then at the same time offer these riders millions in contract deals and then the possiblily of huge endorsement offers, speaking fees, etc. ??? :confused: Its like driving the speed limit the wrong way down a one way street.
 
Animal said:
You can NOT get behind anyone to support.
I agree with all you say. You and I feel the same. But I do think there is something to hope for. You can look to riders that speak out, and riders that sign on to groups like BikePure. Yes, we've been let down in the past about people that talk the talk then get busted (Kohl comes to mind), but by continuing to pressure the riders, and teams, it slowly helps turn the tide, and gives the impression that it's good to not dope, even if you don't gain many results. And it's good to speak out against doping, as there will be a lot of fans that will still support you for it.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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davidw said:
It seems some people use these standards to determine if a rider must be doping:

* He's fast.
* He wins races.
* He doesn't win lots of races.
* He wasn't as fast, and now he's faster.
* He won races and was fast, and isn't now.
* He competes in a lot of races.
* He competes in few races.
* If a cheater who got caught says so, no matter how many other lies and falshoods that person has spread.

Others?
You forgot the most important one:

* Is jacked up on HGH, IGH, EPO and using blood doping.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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davidw said:
It seems some people use these standards to determine if a rider must be doping:

* He's fast.
* He wins races.
* He doesn't win lots of races.
* He wasn't as fast, and now he's faster.
* He won races and was fast, and isn't now.
* He competes in a lot of races.
* He competes in few races.
* If a cheater who got caught says so, no matter how many other lies and falshoods that person has spread.

Others?
Some more:

* I have an unborn twin.
* My mother is sick and I'm carrying her drugs.
* Its for my pet.
* I have no idea why my girlfriend was caught with a suitcase full of EPO crossing the French border.
* I transferred €7000 to a person I've never met for training plans.
* I was in Columbia and someone put cocaine in some cookies I bought.


Thats why.
 
May 14, 2009
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whiteboytrash said:
Some more:

* I have an unborn twin.
* My mother is sick and I'm carrying her drugs.
* Its for my pet.
* I have no idea why my girlfriend was caught with a suitcase full of EPO crossing the French border.
* I transferred €7000 to a person I've never met for training plans.
* I was in Columbia and someone put cocaine in some cookies I bought.

Thats why.
* actovegin for soigneurs
* a lot of used syringes used for acupunture treatment
* sex with wife
* beer, jack daniels
 
May 14, 2009
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BigBoat said:
You do not know their power without the power files from a power meter (un tampered with...)
Cyclismag evaluates power on climb with elevation, time, ratio and a weight equal for all riders of 78kg (bike included).
So, it's possible to have charts like this where we can detect the arrival of EPO inside peloton!


1997: hct limit of 50%
2001: EPO test
 
Mar 19, 2009
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2003 was when LA suffered a lot. The peloton were lower on power.

2004 it kicks up again. When was CERA available?

On edit: I was reading it wrong. Looks like power kicks up in 2003.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Animal said:
2003 was when LA suffered a lot. The peloton were lower on power.

2004 it kicks up again. When was CERA available?

On edit: I was reading it wrong. Looks like power kicks up in 2003.
When did the EPO test come in?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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davidw said:
There are a lot of them. But some do race clean, and they need support, not blanket condemnation of the whole sport/peleton. Of course, no one knows precisely who they are, so it's impossible to single them out for support either. Never said it was easy, but I'd rather just sit back and watch the races, as it's a beautiful, wonderful sport.

I'm just pointing out how some people seem to cry "doper!", even in opposing circumstances - he's gotten faster, he's on the juice - he got slower, he must have been on the juice then. It gets tedious.
My new theory is that you figure out how widespread the doping is about the same time you learn a certain word has only one e. David is apparently not there yet.

The reason for the correlation, I believe, is that it is not a word naturally spelled correctly by most English speakers, and the only place it is normally seen spelled correctly is in writing by cycling-knowledgeable people. Until one has done some serious cycling reading, one is likely to remain ignorant about both the doping situation and this particular spelling...
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I agree with all you say. You and I feel the same. But I do think there is something to hope for. You can look to riders that speak out, and riders that sign on to groups like BikePure. Yes, we've been let down in the past about people that talk the talk then get busted (Kohl comes to mind), but by continuing to pressure the riders, and teams, it slowly helps turn the tide, and gives the impression that it's good to not dope, even if you don't gain many results. And it's good to speak out against doping, as there will be a lot of fans that will still support you for it.
It might be good to speak out against doping in order to win the support of fans, but, as long as one can dope undetected, to actually cease doping is never going to be good for a cyclist's career, nor to win fan support.

Since new performance enhancing substances and techniques are always going to be created and will exist for a considerable time before the testers even discover them, much less have tests developed for them, there is no end to this. Why are you hopeful? Because every few months they catch someone who is doing something that can finally be detected? That gives you something to hope for? Really?
 
nobody said:
Cyclismag evaluates power on climb with elevation, time, ratio and a weight equal for all riders of 78kg (bike included).
So, it's possible to have charts like this where we can detect the arrival of EPO inside peloton!


1997: hct limit of 50%
rolfrae said:
When did the EPO test come in?
EPO test was introduced in 2001 I believe. 2003 kicks up again for blood doping maybe?
 
Apr 18, 2009
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> Until one has done some serious cycling reading

OMG! I didn't spell "peloton" just right in a post I whipped out! No need to get hostile or insulting about it.

That said, as far as I know, all of us on this forum are "ignorant" about the doping situation. Unless you're getting first hand information, it's all just speculation, or in technical, serious cycling terms, "talking out you ***" :) All we know is who gets caught for stuff.

BTW, I do my "serious cycling reading" in Italian, not French, so I'm more used to "plotone", or simply "il gruppo".
 
Apr 9, 2009
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davidw said:
> Until one has done some serious cycling reading

OMG! I didn't spell "peloton" just right in a post I whipped out!

That said, as far as I know, all of us on this forum are "ignorant" about the doping situation. Unless you're getting first hand information, it's all just speculation.
Hi I'm David and I don't like to talk about doping but I like to whine about people that do and thereby end up talking about it myself. There there David, you're not very smart but it will be okay.
 
Apr 18, 2009
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BikeCentric said:
Hi I'm David and I don't like to talk about doping but I like to whine about people that do and thereby end up talking about it myself. There there David, you're not very smart but it will be okay.
Oooh, "not very smart"! Well... nothing to say to that, I guess you got me with your witty repartee. No... wait, I have one: you big doody head! So there!

Sheez...
 

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