Doping in Cycling today -How are they doing it ?

Jul 14, 2012
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So lets hypothetically say that Sky are doping, either as a team or on an individual level. Or lets assume an individual such as Cancellara (Luigi) is still doping today (actually it is not yet proven that Canc was using Fuentes in the past, but hopefully we will find out soon). My question is how are they doing the doping these days. What are they doping, when are they doing it, what do you think the process would involve ? Any ideas or theories welcome
 
Dec 27, 2010
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EPO and blood transfusions are very effective methods. The passport limits their use but does not irradicate it. We've seen that Armstrong in 2009 and almost certainly Contador in 2010 were using sophisticated microdose regimes without triggering a passport case.

We also have anecdotes from various riders saying the level of testing for the passport has dropped dramatically recently. Considering the passport relies heavily on periodic testing of riders, this leaves yet more opportunity for riders to take advantage of. As far as we know the passport has not undergone any recent, significant upgrades to tighten the margins, so it is not unreasonable to think that careful passport dodging through EPO microdosing and/or blood transfusions is ongoing.
 
Dec 13, 2012
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will10 said:
EPO and blood transfusions are very effective methods. The passport limits their use but does not irradicate it. We've seen that Armstrong in 2009 and almost certainly Contador in 2010 were using sophisticated microdose regimes without triggering a passport case.

We also have anecdotes from various riders saying the level of testing for the passport has dropped dramatically recently. Considering the passport relies heavily on periodic testing of riders, this leaves yet more opportunity for riders to take advantage of. As far as we know the passport has not undergone any recent, significant upgrades to tighten the margins, so it is not unreasonable to think that careful passport dodging through EPO microdosing and/or blood transfusions is ongoing.
Exactly right, can't remember who it was who said they had last been tested in Nov 2012, but that sort of testing doesn't stop anything.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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SundayRider said:
Exactly right, can't remember who it was who said they had last been tested in Nov 2012, but that sort of testing doesn't stop anything.
Probably Sep Vanmarcke or Thomas Degendt. They complained about it late last year.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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spalco said:
I don't see why you need drugs for that.
because to train effectively, you need to get the calories in.

for weightloss, you need calorie deficit.

this aicar $hit, it rivens the physique of all non-functional tissue.

i would hate to see the internal organs that dont aid aerobic work.
 
Aug 18, 2009
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will10 said:
EPO and blood transfusions are very effective methods. The passport limits their use but does not irradicate it. We've seen that Armstrong in 2009 and almost certainly Contador in 2010 were using sophisticated microdose regimes without triggering a passport case.

We also have anecdotes from various riders saying the level of testing for the passport has dropped dramatically recently. Considering the passport relies heavily on periodic testing of riders, this leaves yet more opportunity for riders to take advantage of. As far as we know the passport has not undergone any recent, significant upgrades to tighten the margins, so it is not unreasonable to think that careful passport dodging through EPO microdosing and/or blood transfusions is ongoing.
zalacain said:
AICAR would be on the shopping list
Not saying I'm well informed, but this sums up my view.

Dear Wiggo and probably others have posted the B.P. parameters - it's like the 50% hct but with defined reticulocytes (oops) as well.
 
will10 said:
EPO and blood transfusions are very effective methods. The passport limits their use but does not irradicate it. We've seen that Armstrong in 2009 and almost certainly Contador in 2010 were using sophisticated microdose regimes without triggering a passport case.
There never would have been a case against Contador without someone at the lab with access to the identity of the sample leaking the positive. The UCI tried to cover it up after that!!!

That's an example of my broader point, some riders are probably red-hot positive, but there's no action taken after the test comes back. Do not assume the bio-passport is functioning as a legitimate rules enforcement tool. It is not.

The most effective doping method is the UCI suppressing positives followed closely by blood doping, then extreme weight loss thanks to a combination of AICAR and another drug (peptide?) of which the name escapes me at the moment. Clenbuterol used to be very useful as a fat burning and muscle building drug. At minimum, there are now better drugs with perhaps less side effects.
 
Apr 1, 2013
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I'd say the mainstays of doping are still oxygen vectors. The logical argument says protected riders at this point. I don't think that in today's scientific age that feigning ignorance by the UCI would work anymore.
 
cycling1776 said:
I don't think that in today's scientific age that feigning ignorance by the UCI would work anymore.
Ignorance works GREAT for the UCI. Hein's "Armstrong never ever ever doped" and various published screeds denied weeks later after being found to be obviously false. Pat's anti-doping message cycle flaunts the fact they report to no one and will continue to enable doping.

#1 The bio-passport works great and the UCI handles it all well.
#2 The bio-passport is very complicated and only outside Scientists understand it.
#3 Silence.
 
BroDeal said:
It is natural that if one area of methods is restricted then gains will be sought in other areas. With blood manipulated limited, the next best area is weight loss.
Agreed. I think drugs to promote fat burning helping in faster weight loss while training. Preventing excessive water absorption(during racing). And eliminating waste completely(during racing):D. You need medication for all of them. I just donot know how many are in the banned list.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Since they're not testing anymore pretty much anything goes. The Blood passport is pretty much null in void if they don't test enough, the dots will be to sparse to do any good.
 
Aug 18, 2012
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BroDeal said:
It is natural that if one area of methods is restricted then gains will be sought in other areas. With blood manipulation limited, the next best area is weight loss.
I agree with this although I wouldn't be surprised to hear that members of team sky are riding with a Haematocrit of 53 or 54%, injecting saline just before the tests to pass the health check and then excreting it in their urrine 30 minutes later.

Bodybuilders use thyroid hormones and a ECA stack both of which make it extremely difficult to train any cardio, I'm sure the latest drugs make training whilst losing weight bearable psychologically.
 
ElChingon said:
Since they're not testing anymore pretty much anything goes. The Blood passport is pretty much null in void if they don't test enough, the dots will be to sparse to do any good.
Even if the UCI were not corrupt, the passport is a blunt tool. Raise your hematocrit from 42 to 50 and that is a 19% change, big enough to become obvious. Raise it 5% and the change is within the noise of natural variation, especially with infrequent testing. Combine the 5% increase with a 5% drug assisted reduction in body weight and the total W/kg change is a little over 10%, which is a very large increase.

IndianCyclist brought some interesting ideas for race day weight loss. Sounds like marginal gains.
 
Aug 18, 2012
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IndianCyclist said:
And eliminating waste completely(during racing):D.
If I remember correctly the average person stores around 6 pounds of waste in their GIT at any given point in time and it can take up to 7 days for food to travel through it.

So I guess if that weight can be lost, there would be a decent improvement in performance.

The potential for having diarrhea in a race seems bad though, using stuff between stages could lead to dehydration.
 
Briant_Gumble said:
If I remember correctly the average person stores around 6 pounds of waste in their GIT at any given point in time and it can take up to 7 days for food to travel through it.

So I guess if that weight can be lost, there would be a decent improvement in performance.

The potential for having diarrhoea in a race seems bad though, using stuff between stages could lead to dehydration.
I think Sky are on it with the amount crap they spew out in regards to marginal gains.
 
I allow myself to copy this from the Scumacher tread, since it seems quite relevant for this discussion. I hope it's okay.

Scumachers experience is not that old yet, and anyway we do not have that many guys telling in details about how they were doping.
( I don't say Schumacher is a guy to have blind faith to, but then again, who is?)



Schumacher tells about how he passed the doping tests( until he didn't): http://sporten.tv2.dk/2013-04-01-%E2...ollen%E2%80%99

The main points is: - He took micro doses of EPO in the night, and the EPO could then not be traced the next morning.

- Normal EPO could easily be traced, so he( and many others) took another kind of EPO he did not believe could be traced.

- He say that he could not go crazy with his doping, because of the biological pass.



The bilogical pass thing, I suspect to be BS, that he have to tell, since he also have to tell a story about that he now do not dope, and that the sport have changed.
 
Briant_Gumble said:
If I remember correctly the average person stores around 6 pounds of waste in their GIT at any given point in time and it can take up to 7 days for food to travel through it.

So I guess if that weight can be lost, there would be a decent improvement in performance.

The potential for having diarrhea in a race seems bad though, using stuff between stages could lead to dehydration.
Be careful about using average-person figures when discussing elite athletes. I think it is a fair assumption that an elite athletes body is more efficient, and diet more effectual. Not to mention the physical stresses and the body's responses.
...
Pros are doping with TUEs safely. EPO and transfusions can still be utilized by sophisticated riders/teams
 
Aug 18, 2009
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More Strides than Rides said:
Pros are doping with TUEs safely. EPO and transfusions can still be utilized by sophisticated riders/teams
If WADA is credible, IMO publishing TUEs would be helpful.
 
Jan 3, 2011
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Guess they find new drugs. Maybe stuff that last longer and doesnt get picked up by the bio-pass easily. I reckon those "training camps" could be "juice-up camps".

One thing is clear the sport can be very innovative in these matters.
 
Aug 7, 2010
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blackcat said:
because to train effectively, you need to get the calories in.

for weightloss, you need calorie deficit.

this aicar $hit, it rivens the physique of all non-functional tissue.

i would hate to see the internal organs that dont aid aerobic work.
Who is Hombre de Subaru?? Heard it a few times now..
 

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