'Drugs found by Vandenbroucke's bed?'

[RhodriM]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/drugs-found-by-vandenbrouckes-bed?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=news_headlines

Sounds a bit speculative at the moment.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Belgian media report likewise

 

[Anonymous]

very speculative.. they like using the word "drugs found" with ex dopers...

the drugs where insulin, sleeping tablets and an anxiety medication...

the two latter ones would be no surprise, perfectly normal for someone who had suffered depression or anxiety to be using both of these medications... half the ruddy world is on sleeping tablets, and probably 5% of people take some sort of anti anxiety medication...

insulin obviously is generally diabetes related, but nobody actually knows if he has issues... however, insulin is also used to control blood suger, which can be affected by depression/anxiety...

i think they would have reported "drugs found" if there had been a jar of paracetemol in his room to be honest...

i think let the guy rest in peace, speculation really isnt gonna change a thing.. a great cyclist who clearly had a troubled personal life, and mental health issues..

im actually dissapointed that CN are choosing to report speculation, rather than actual news.. what was it they said in the previous one about "expressing our condolences etc".. then leave the guy in peace and report NEWS, not GOSSIP

 

[RhodriM]

very speculative.. they like using the word "drugs found" with ex dopers...

the drugs where insulin, sleeping tablets and an anxiety medication...

the two latter ones would be no surprise, perfectly normal for someone who had suffered depression or anxiety to be using both of these medications... half the ruddy world is on sleeping tablets, and probably 5% of people take some sort of anti anxiety medication...

insulin obviously is generally diabetes related, but nobody actually knows if he has issues... however, insulin is also used to control blood suger, which can be affected by depression/anxiety...

i think they would have reported "drugs found" if there had been a jar of paracetemol in his room to be honest...

i think let the guy rest in peace, speculation really isnt gonna change a thing.. a great cyclist who clearly had a troubled personal life, and mental health issues..

im actually dissapointed that CN are choosing to report speculation, rather than actual news.. what was it they said in the previous one about "expressing our condolences etc".. then leave the guy in peace and report NEWS, not GOSSIP

I agree with most of that except for the insulin - surely no-one uses insulin for depression.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with most of that except for the insulin - surely no-one uses insulin for depression.

no, but there are some links to depression/anxiety and sugar control/production issues...

 

[dopingectomy]

I agree with most of that except for the insulin - surely no-one uses insulin for depression.

Only when depression leads to suicide.

 

[fruit bars with eyes]

I have nothing inciteful to say- i'm just very sorry to hear about this. Poor man had some mental health problems which seem to have persisted. I wish him and his family some peace. Whatever the rights/ wrongs of cycling culture in belgium he was born deep into it and new nothing else as he grew up - his doping was a pretty inevitable consequence of the system.

 

[thehog]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/drugs-found-by-vandenbrouckes-bed?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=news_headlines

Sounds a bit speculative at the moment.

P=ss weak. Pantani was found consumed 70 grams of coke in 2 days. If his heart wasn't so strong he would have died months earlier.

JaJa was on the same mix of Stilnox.

Stuey O'Grady was into it as well in his early days.

It’s when you have depression and mix this stuff it kills.

 

[Race Radio]

I agree with most of that except for the insulin - surely no-one uses insulin for depression.

I am not sure if there is any connection but Insulin has been a common part of doping programs for the last decade.

I do know that the misuse of some drugs can, like EPO and Testosterone, can result in the body being unable to produce the correct amount naturally. I do not know if insulin has similar issues, perhaps one of our doctor members can fill us in?

 

[afpm90]

According to Philip Tønnesen, the use of EPO may increase the possibility of blood clots in the lungs.

The translated article:http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=pt-BR&sl=da&tl=en&u=http://www.feltet.dk/

 

[afpm90]

According to Philip Tønnesen, the use of EPO may increase the possibility of blood clots in the lungs.

The translated article:http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=pt-BR&sl=da&tl=en&u=http://www.feltet.dk/

 

[guilder]

Wouldn't be surprised judging by his erratic performances over the years that he was susceptible to a pre type 2 diabetes brought on by stress, alcoholism, and a hereditary disposition. It would explain the blood clot happening resulting from dehydration.

 

[Martinello]

epo + dehydration + flight to Senegal + a few drinks on the plane = venous thrombosis in a lower extremity vein. The venous clot dislodges and ends up in pulmonary artery - quite lethal.

it's speculative but a plausible scenario if the cause of death really is a lung embolism.

 

[Cobblestones]

epo + dehydration + flight to Senegal + a few drinks on the plane = venous thrombosis in a lower extremity vein. The venous clot dislodges and ends up in pulmonary artery - quite lethal.

it's speculative but a plausible scenario if the cause of death really is a lung embolism.

Entirely plausible. I wrote something similar in the other thread. Here's a relevant link. I don't think there would have been much reason for VDB to dope with EPO at the time. He didn't have a team. The season is practically over. Anyone knows why he was in Senegal btw.?

 

[python]

Entirely plausible. I wrote something similar in the other thread. Here's a relevant link. I don't think there would have been much reason for VDB to dope with EPO at the time. He didn't have a team. The season is practically over. Anyone knows why he was in Senegal btw.?

i read some place he was on vacation.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Belgian media are reporting he was very drunk and with a local woman late at night.

The friend he was on vacation with left him to it with the lady after some drinks in a bar.

He had vomited in the hotel room, and she had gone to reception to ask for a mop.

The other drugs aside it sounds like alcohol played a role.

 

[FKLance]

velonews said he had a team for 2010.

 

[BigBoat]

Slin wouldnt cause a blood clot...If thats what apparently killed him. Nothing found in his room would.

Looks like he became dehyrated after barfing. We all know though, what can cause blood clots.

 

[red_flanders]

Read somewhere this morning that he has used insulin in the past to attempt suicide. Don't understand a bit of how that would work, but odd that it seems to keep cropping up in his medical history.

 

[Aapjes]

Read somewhere this morning that he has used insulin in the past to attempt suicide. Don't understand a bit of how that would work, but odd that it seems to keep cropping up in his medical history.

Insulin turns blood sugar (glucose) into glucosen, which is a storage mechanism for quick energy (a 'bonk' is when you run out of glucosen and start to burn fat). Blood sugar is the main fuel for our brain. Insulin overdose -> low blood sugar (hypoglycemia) -> no fuel for the brain -> coma -> death.

You can also have the opposite. Low/no insulin -> high blood sugar (hyperglycemia) -> body needs to get rid of it and starts to dump glucose into the urine, along with fluids -> dehydration. Also low insulin -> body starts to convert fat into ketone bodies, which is an alternative fuel for the brain (this is a survival mechanism) -> ketone bodies are acid, so the blood becomes acidic -> the body compensates by a chemical reaction that makes the blood less acidic, but produces CO2 -> hyperventilation to get rid of the CO2. Then dehydration + acidic blood + high CO2 levels -> water accumulating in the brain (cerebral edema) -> crushed brain stem -> death.

Insulin overdoses tend to be a lot more common for diabetics than extreme deficiencies (although moderate deficiencies have quite a negative effect on the body in the long term), so the default treatment for a diabetic in trouble is to give him something sweet: energy drinks, glucose tablets, etc (in other words, the stuff you eat/drink on a ride). The insulin won't be able to turn all the glucose into glucosen, so there will be some left over for the brain.

Insulin is extremely common and thus easy to get (most of us can just get some from a family member), which makes it an fairly easy suicide method. A sufficient amount of fast acting insulin should cause coma very quickly and would be pretty much painless. It will still take some time to kill, so there is a decent chance of being found and rescued.

PS. I know a diabetic who suffered brain damage from an insulin overdose. It's really shitty having to balance that rope, knowing that a mistake in either direction can mean brain damage or even death.

 

[Anonymous]

Wouldn't be surprised judging by his erratic performances over the years that he was susceptible to a pre type 2 diabetes brought on by stress, alcoholism, and a hereditary disposition. It would explain the blood clot happening resulting from dehydration.

this is part of where i was going.. stress and depression/anxiety (and the side effects of that, excessive alcohol etc) can play havoc with blood sugar levels, not enough that you are considered diabetic, but enough that some monitoring, and occasional assistance in controlling it is useful, but its pretty rare...

to be honest, however he went, the guys gone and will be missed.. i think the only cause of death that will have an impact, or should have an impact is if the blood clotting is proved to be a result of career doping, in which case it should send out a massive message to those who consider it nowadays...

 

[craig1985]

According to Philip Tønnesen, the use of EPO may increase the possibility of blood clots in the lungs.

The translated article:http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=pt-BR&sl=da&tl=en&u=http://www.feltet.dk/

In his book on Pantani, Matt Rendell talks about how r-EPO first came on to the scene and at the 1994 Giro, riders had to get on the rollers at night to keep their heart rate at a certain level to stop their blood from thickening up and causing blood clots.

 

[WD-40.]

Insulin overdoses tend to be a lot more common for diabetics than extreme deficiencies (although moderate deficiencies have quite a negative effect on the body in the long term), so the default treatment for a diabetic in trouble is to give him something sweet: energy drinks, glucose tablets, etc (in other words, the stuff you eat/drink on a ride). The insulin won't be able to turn all the glucose into glucosen, so there will be some left over for the brain.

Insulin is extremely common and thus easy to get (most of us can just get some from a family member), which makes it an fairly easy suicide method. A sufficient amount of fast acting insulin should cause coma very quickly and would be pretty much painless. It will still take some time to kill, so there is a decent chance of being found and rescued.

PS. I know a diabetic who suffered brain damage from an insulin overdose. It's really shitty having to balance that rope, knowing that a mistake in either direction can mean brain damage or even death.

+1

I think that many here do not realize how dangerous insulin really can be and that it is a hell of a lot more risky to use than EPO for instance.

We can speculate all we wish on what the cause of death is but until the autopsy report comes back we will not know what happened and may never.


R.I.P. Frank

 

[joe_papp]

+1

I think that many here do not realize how dangerous insulin really can be and that it is a hell of a lot more risky to use than EPO for instance...

+1

RIP VDB, and insulin was one of those drugs that I wouldn't have taken even if you told me that it would deliver another 1% increase in performance. I don't know why it was that I was scared to mess with that stuff, but it was definitely in the team(s)' black box and available, but...no way.

It would be nice for there to be a proper autopsy w/ toxicology work done to determine what really caused his death...as I find it dubious to describe in any terms his passing as attributable to "natural causes"...unless the doctor meant to say that he naturally was going to end up dead after falling so far off the wagon and plunging into the world of street drugs...

 

[Dave_1]

seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there...autopsy says he had no alcohol in his system, also he was racing weekly all season and at a fairly high amateur/UCI 2.1 level in Belgium up until 4 weeks ago, completing most events...all on record in belgian newspaper Het..?....none of which suggests he was in serious health problems. I suppose a toxicology report in Belgium will answer questions.