Effects of coronavirus on professional races

[EliseeReclus]

Bora for example brought their own kitchen truck to avoid situations like this. The riders have dinner in the bus/truck.

I was pretty surprised when Van Emden mentioned about buffets in his interview, I thought for all of the money Jumbo Visma have put in to trying to one up Ineos, and all the micro-managing they do with respect to rider diet and ketones, the least they could do was use a cook for a grand tour?

 

[search]

So we should just cancel cycling for the next years? You know that they are almost just as likely to get it in their private lives, right?

I tend to agree, and (although I don't follow them too closely), there seem to be far more cases in most other sports, from what I can see. And obviously, also "normal" people face risks of getting infected doing their jobs.

Of course, if there are ways to improve the situation, they are always very welcome, but zero risk is not possible, and will not be for quite another while.

 

[search]

I actually thought that having your own cook had been a thing for the last decade.

apparently not so much during the Giro, as the food in Italy is usually very good, and suited to what cyclists need

 

[Cookster15]

Jens Keukeleire got covid in March, had a high fever for 10 days, and it took him 3 months to train somewhat normally again. He says he never had to return from this deep. His results in the classics, by the way, are not very convincing. What if he never reaches his old level again?

But hey, you know best.

A sample of one. Three years ago I had pneumonia. Statistics of Covid suggest it certainly isn't a "crock". But the likelihood of severe or long term effects on people under the age of 60 is very very low. That's a fact. I suggest to you that Keukeleire is very very unlucky.

 

[RedheadDane]

apparently not so much during the Giro, as the food in Italy is usually very good, and suited to what cyclists need

I suppose the second part is the important bit here.

 

[roundabout]

So we should just cancel cycling for the next years? You know that they are almost just as likely to get it in their private lives, right?

Is that an excuse for any organizational shortcomings?

 

[Danskebjerge]

I considered writing a joke about the Giro being a last man standing event, but then Hindley almost did the same:

"It's like real bike racing, everybody just racing as hard as they can. It's last man standing-type racing, which is pretty cool. I've been really enjoying it."

It would indeed be true to the (often very cynical) nature and traditions of cycling if they continued to the bitter end. I mean, it's not like the riders are getting seriously ill, is it? And I don't think there is a big risk of the riders spreading the disease to many others if they keep their corona routines.

 

[EliseeReclus]

RCS Sport and the UCI are responsible. They have not applied the bubble protocols at the Giro as rigorously as was done in the Tour. That we just had the TdF to prove how it can be done and even learn from and yet RCS Sport and the UCI still failed? It is inexcusable.

Is there actually any evidence of this though?

Thus far it seems the main issue seems to be bad behaviour from the police - and I don't think RCS or the UCI have enough institutional strength to take on the cops and kick them off the race?

Other things we've heard are in bits and bobs from riders, and mostly seem to be things which are within the remit of the protocols and were also present at the TdF (I'm thinking the sharing of hotels and buffets here)

 

[saganftw]

Is that an excuse for any organizational shortcomings?

but now that those shortcomings already happened, what do we do? stop racing to punish organizers? or do you want an apology?

you can always start to bubble yourself mid-race, or leave if its too high of a risk...as long as the spread isnt out of control, there is no need to stop racing not to mention judging the situation in Belgium or Netherlands, italy seems like a lot safer country right now

 

[Cookster15]

I feel that pointing the fingers solely at RCS and the UCI misses the point a bit. From what I've heard in terms of hotel protocols the same measures are present as at the tour, but they aren't being applied as rigorously.

You contradict yourself. The UCI are responsible for overseeing protocols at both RCS Sport and the teams. RCS Sport has obviously failed to apply the protocols to the same standard as was done successfully in the Tour de France when the virus was just as bad in France at that time. The problems with police, shared eating arrangements, lack of PPE etc are all the fault of lack of oversight by the organizers. The same teams spent three weeks in France. Very obvious the problems are the organizers not the teams.

 

[Cookster15]

Other things we've heard are in bits and bobs from riders, and mostly seem to be things which are within the remit of the protocols and were also present at the TdF (I'm thinking the sharing of hotels and buffets here)

My opinion is also based upon bits and bobs I read from riders. The bits and bobs from riders are things that can be controlled by the organizers. Even the with the police the organizers could have had daily meetings with the them to ensure protocols are being followed. Did they? It seems not.

 

[tobydawq]

Is that an excuse for any organizational shortcomings?

No, but if the hand sanitizer dispenser in front of one of my class rooms should prove to be empty one day, I wouldn't call for the school to close for a week. And I'm not even in the history writing or entertainment business as the cyclists are.

 

[yaco]

I think we need to look at this issue on a longer term basis into 2021 - Anecdotally it appears the protocols at the Giro have not been to the same standard at the TDF - We need to get this right for stage racing in 2021 because I suspect we will still face COVID issues until at least Mid 2021 which will include another edition of the Giro and the TDF.

 

[EliseeReclus]

My opinion is also based upon bits and bobs I read from riders. The bits and bobs from riders are things that can be controlled by the organizers. Even the with the police the organizers could have had daily meetings with the them to ensure protocols are being followed. Did they? It seems not.

What more can the organisers do other than pass on their rules to the hotel? I doubt they're well resourced enough to have boots on the ground to check on the accordance with the rules of hotel bookings across often large regions. And the only other thing they can do is withhold money for hotels that have not upheld standards.

With the police I think perhaps my experience with the obstinance of cops makes me find it funny that you think having a daily meeting with them will affect their conduct in any way. Given that it seems to have been known that they were getting drunk and rowdy in the very first hotel, what would you do as a course of action? I think if they kicked those police from the race then they would probably be told in no short order where to shove it from the rest of them!

 

[Cookster15]

What more can the organisers do other than pass on their rules to the hotel? I doubt they're well resourced enough to have boots on the ground to check on the accordance with the rules of hotel bookings across often large regions. And the only other thing they can do is withhold money for hotels that have not upheld standards.

With the police I think perhaps my experience with the obstinance of cops makes me find it funny that you think having a daily meeting with them will affect their conduct in any way. Given that it seems to have been known that they were getting drunk and rowdy in the very first hotel, what would you do as a course of action? I think if they kicked those police from the race then they would probably be told in no short order where to shove it from the rest of them!

I think they can do plenty to regulate how protocols are being applied at hotels. The TdF did.

 

[Cookster15]

I think we need to look at this issue on a longer term basis into 2021 - Anecdotally it appears the protocols at the Giro have not been to the same standard at the TDF - We need to get this right for stage racing in 2021 because I suspect we will still face COVID issues until at least Mid 2021 which will include another edition of the Giro and the TDF.

I agree. I hope the Giro organizers and/or Italian Police learn from their mistakes.

 

[EliseeReclus]

I think they can do plenty to regulate how protocols are being applied at hotels. The TdF did.

What did the TdF do that the Giro aren't? How do we know that it isn't just dumb luck that there are rider positives at the Giro and there weren't at the TdF?

 

[Jagartrott]

So we should just cancel cycling for the next years? You know that they are almost just as likely to get it in their private lives, right?

What an uninformed comment.
I've argued against cancelling Paris-Roubaix. Cycling can be organized in a safe way, but then organizers need to make sure that measures are strict. Covid-positive policemen walking around without face masks in rider hotels is NOT strict. And organizers denying there were breaches like this is a very bad response.

My above reply was specifically to counter the perception that "ah, they're young and healthy, they're safe anyway". If you're an athlete pushing your body to the limit, surely you would be worried about a disease that can linger in your body for a long time or can damage heart/lungs. It's just stupid to assume you're safe. Riders have done a good job staying out of trouble so far (compared to say, football players), but then you'd expect races to be organised in a way that doesn't put that cautiousness in jeopardy. That is all.

 

[Cookster15]

What did the TdF do that the Giro aren't? How do we know that it isn't just dumb luck that there are rider positives at the Giro and there weren't at the TdF?

Perhaps luck plays a role but I think more likely you answered your own question at the beginning - "bits and bobs from riders". This wasn't going on at the TdF. The bubble was maintained at the TdF. It is compromised at the Giro. It seems very simple really.

 

[Forever The Best]

There should be an option for the riders and teams to go home if they want. But would be nice if we reach Milano.

 

[46&twoWheels]

I agree. I hope the Giro organizers and/or Italian Police learn from their mistakes.

you keep repeating the same litany over and over again. The current discussion is based on loosely defined, vague, anectodes by some disgruntled riders, certainly not epidemiologists nor hygiene experts. Any decision should be taken solely on the basis of number of positives (and distribution in the peloton) and their impact on the race. UCI has already rejected EF's proposal. If some riders or teams don't trust RCS or Italy and they don't feel safe..... nobody is forcing them. Bye bye

 

[Cookster15]

certainly not epidemiologists nor hygiene experts. Any decision should be taken solely on the basis of number of positives (and distribution in the peloton) and their impact on the race. UCI has already rejected EF's proposal. If some riders or teams don't trust RCS or Italy and they don't feel safe..... nobody is forcing them. Bye bye

The answer to running a successful race won't be found from epidemiologists nor hygiene experts. They don't execute plans and protocols.

 

[Breezy1985]

So EF want the race stopped but wont pull out when its not. Just JV trying to play media tricks

 

[46&twoWheels]

The answer to running a successful race won't be found from epidemiologists nor hygiene experts. They don't execute plans and protocols.

ok, this is true, but recognizing that protocols have not been enforced is not the riders' sphere of expertise either.
Let's come down to the practical side of things! how can you say that RCS has not been able to enforce the protocol? Where does personal responsibility come into play? The chain of responsibilities is so convoluted (starting from team managers, arriving to hotel cooks) that blaming a nation or an organization is too simplistic. Even the idea of organizing a bubble by moving throughout an entire country is ephimeral (see NBA for a real bubble). There's always a bit of risk associated with a Giro during an epidemic. 100% isolation is impossible.

 

[SafeBet]

Perhaps luck plays a role but I think more likely you answered your own question at the beginning - "bits and bobs from riders". This wasn't going on at the TdF. The bubble was maintained at the TdF. It is compromised at the Giro. It seems very simple really.

Except there can't be a bubbles for professional cycling.
What the NBA did in Orlando is a bubble. What every cycling race organizer is doing is not a bubble. If the TDF bubble was so impenetrable why did some staff members get COVID there?

Look, Italian police is a joke and I have no problem admitting they're very likely responsible for breaches in the protocols. And RCS has a long way to go ensuring riders safety at every level.
But in a non-bubble environment (which all cycling races are) it will always ultimately come down to personal choices and behaviors, not to protocols. It is really hard to oversee everyone who can potentially get in touch with riders and staff members.
Were fans shouting in the riders faces on TDF climbs not compromising the bubble?