Effects of coronavirus on professional races

[8472]

The Chinese Communist Party were seriously embarrassed by the virus outbreak in Wuhan. But we can take the zero new cases with a grain of salt. I don't believe this is remotely true. Forget China's claims they are not credible.

And where are your so called credible sources? Even the anti-China MSM have all widely reported that China has closed all 16 temporary hospitals and both newly built 2600 bed ICU hospitals that were used at the height of the epidemic, and recently sent foreign aid including medical supplies, and experienced medical teams to affected countries overseas including Italy, Spain, France, Belgium, Iran, Iraq, etc, and we are grateful for that. So stop the hate and prejudice.

 

[Cookster15]

And where are your so called credible sources? Even the anti-China MSM have all widely reported that China has closed all 16 temporary hospitals and both newly built 2600 bed ICU hospitals that were used at the height of the epidemic, and recently sent foreign aid including medical supplies, and experienced medical teams to affected countries overseas including Italy, Spain, France, Belgium, Iran, Iraq, etc, and we are grateful for that. So stop the hate and prejudice.

Accusing me of hate and prejudice is avoiding debate. I have Chinese friends so please don't insult me. Its called logic and reason not prejudice. Prejudice is an excuse for avoiding reality. None of what you list will stop the virus in its tracks at just over 80,000 cases. Remember the virus started in China. China is a country of 1.4 Billion people. China is heavily dependant upon keeping its factories operational. The Chinese Communist Party is paranoid about maintaining social cohesion of 1.4 Billion people. Keeping them employed is integral. How do you keep the factories of China working and stop the virus in its tracks? Sorry this isn't possible. Wearing masks won't stop the virus. China tightly controls the information sent to the outside world. This includes the internet. The anti China MSM (note: your opinion) can only work with the information they have. Its got absolutely nothing to do with prejuduce.

 

[8472]

Accusing me of hate and prejudice is avoiding debate. I have Chinese friends so please don't insult me. Its called logic and reason not prejudice. Prejudice is an excuse for avoiding reality. None of what you list will stop the virus in its tracks at just over 80,000 cases. Remember the virus started in China. China is a country of 1.4 Billion people. China is heavily dependant upon keeping its factories operational. The Chinese Communist Party is paranoid about maintaining social cohesion of 1.4 Billion people. Keeping them employed is integral. How do you keep the factories of China working and stop the virus in its tracks? Sorry this isn't possible. Wearing masks won't stop the virus. China tightly controls the information sent to the outside world. This includes the internet. The anti China MSM (note: your opinion) can only work with the information they have. Its got absolutely nothing to do with prejuduce.

All of what your are supposing has 0 evidence or credible sources backing it, only your supposed feeling that China never tells the truth, which the anti-China MSM outlets have been relentlessly pushing. The fact that anything negative about China is believable, but anything positive about it must be false.

If you actually took time to read into the measure China took to contain the outbreak, it’s not surprising how China has managed to stop the virus in its tracks. The widespread draconian lockdown was for a period of 2 months, significantly more stringent than the lockdown currently in place around the world. Entrances of all buildings, transport, shops had people taking temperatures and anyone who records a temperature above 37.3 degrees was forced to go to the hospital for extensive tests and quarantine, and in the epicenter Wuhan, no one was even allowed to leave the house for any reason at all. These measures actually bordered on limiting human rights, but was what was required to bring the virus under control.

As for China keeping factories operational? What are you talking about? All western press were all too happy to report on the massive contraction of China’s post-quarantine manufacturing, and economic damage suffered during the outbreak. “Factory activity in China contracted at the fastest pace ever in February, even worse than during the global financial crisis”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-pmi-factory-official-idUSKBN20N03R

So no you are not promoting reality, just clutching onto the sense of exceptionalism that just because China has managed to defeat the coronavirus outbreak, even at a high cost, it must be false.

 

[Merckx index]

If you actually took time to read into the measure China took to contain the outbreak, it’s not surprising how China has managed to stop the virus in its tracks. The widespread draconian lockdown was for a period of 2 months, significantly more stringent than the lockdown currently in place around the world. Entrances of all buildings, transport, shops had people taking temperatures and anyone who records a temperature above 37.3 degrees was forced to go to the hospital for extensive tests and quarantine, and in the epicenter Wuhan, no one was even allowed to leave the house for any reason at all. These measures actually bordered on limiting human rights, but was what was required to bring the virus under control.

I'm very impressed with the way China has apparently stopped the spread of the virus virtually completely. The government has some population control tools that Western governments don't have, or have great difficulty using, and I for one don't criticize it for using those tools.

All that said, that WSJ article does not contain a shred of vulgarity or racism towards China. It simply points out how powerful the Chinese economy is, and how it's potentially vulnerable to a breakdown. IOW, that article is about 5% as critical of China as literally hundreds of articles by Americans are critical of America.

You seem extraordinarily sensitive about China, as if we're not allowed to criticize it as much as we criticize our own governments.

 

[8472]

I'm very impressed with the way China has apparently stopped the spread of the virus virtually completely. The government has some population control tools that Western governments don't have, or have great difficulty using, and I for one don't criticize it for using those tools.

All that said, that WSJ article does not contain a shred of vulgarity or racism towards China. It simply points out how powerful the Chinese economy is, and how it's potentially vulnerable to a breakdown. IOW, that article is about 5% as critical of China as literally hundreds of articles by Americans are critical of America.

You seem extraordinarily sensitive about China, as if we're not allowed to criticize it as much as we criticize our own governments.

Even I criticized the several screwups of the CCP early on during the crisis, so no I'm not saying China isn't allowed to be criticized, but they needed to be supported with facts rather than a few people's engrained belief that what China says is always false.

 

[Merckx index]

Even I criticized the several screwups of the CCP early on during the crisis, so no I'm not saying China isn't allowed to be criticized, but they needed to be supported with facts rather than a few people's engrained belief that what China says is always false.

Then address the people who claim that what China says is always false. The WSJ article never makes that claim.

 

[8472]

Then address the people who claim that what China says is always false. The WSJ article never makes that claim.

The WSJ was regarding racism posted in another subforum. Here I'm referring to statements such as this:

But we can take the zero new cases with a grain of salt. I don't believe this is remotely true. Forget China's claims they are not credible.

 

[IndianCyclist]

For all countries bar China it was an imported virus. The Govts could have stopped by acting in unison and stopping international travel. They dropped the ball. The first wave is here and everybody now has to go through it and there is not much to do. China now has an uptick of imported cases. Every country is in different parts of the curve. In some countries the wave is just beginning. That means at least 3 months The second wave could start if Govts relax international travel quickly. Sport requires training and training requires at some time ~ 1-3 months. Any international sport should be not started till there is adequate time for the virus to disappear in most countries. Otherwise There is a extreme possiblity of the second wave. Otherwise it would not adhere to any notion of fairness. The olympics should be postponed to next year.

 

[spalco]

Otherwise There is a extreme possiblity of the second wave. Otherwise it would not adhere to any notion of fairness. The olympics should be postponed to next year.

I think your first argument is much stronger than the second one.

It's not inherently "unfair" that some athletes have better training options than others. Everybody has their own stuff to deal with all the time. Some athletes have more money, better coaches, better equipment, some have previous injuries, some have less experience, some have more or less time to train, some have to do military service in the prime of their career while others don't, etc. etc.
Or if it is unfair, than it's always unfair, COVID-19 doesn't really change that fundamentally, it only maybe changes somewhat which individual athletes are disadvantaged.

Anyway, clearly it's an academic question. The Olympic Games will be postponed because it's too dangerous to host them.

 

[RedheadDane]

LoL, looks like PCS has a somewhat… sarcastic… respons to all this. If you go to their homepage, which, obviously, has been a little quiet these days, you'll notice that all races are listed as having finished "forever" ago.

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[Craigee]

I'm sure you've all seen all the exposure this virus has had world wide via today's incredible volume or capacity with technology and the internet. Even the peasants of the world including you and me are getting air time via these vehicles and its dominated by incredible dramatizations by so many. The media is ridiculous these days trying to out do one another with the drama and the citizens of the world are loving having their own individual say via technology and its forcing govts to over react.

15,000 deaths in a world of more than 6 billion? Come on there are so many other diseases and regular causes of death that we don't give a hoot about. A lot more people will die in car accidents world wide this year than from this flu virus. Why don't we stop the driving of cars immediately until we can improve the safety on the roads? Because we just don't care. But we care about this flu a thousand times more. Its new sensational news we can all have a public opinion on and aren't we all loving it.

The world is one big joke today because of the latest communal technology.

 

[Craigee]

And its driving the world broke. What a pack of fools we all are.

 

[sir fly]

I'm sure you've all seen all the exposure this virus has had world wide via today's incredible volume or capacity with technology and the internet. Even the peasants of the world including you and me are getting air time via these vehicles and its dominated by incredible dramatizations by so many. The media is ridiculous these days trying to out do one another with the drama and the citizens of the world are loving having their own individual say via technology and its forcing govts to over react.

15,000 deaths in a world of more than 6 billion? Come on there are so many other diseases and regular causes of death that we don't give a hoot about. A lot more people will die in car accidents world wide this year than from this flu virus. Why don't we stop the driving of cars immediately until we can improve the safety on the roads? Because we just don't care. But we care about this flu a thousand times more. Its new sensational news we can all have a public opinion on and aren't we all loving it.

The world is one big joke today because of the latest communal technology.

Well, if the basic reproduction number is as high as 4 and no lower than 1, CFR between 2 and 3 percent, and approximately 5-6% need to be hospitalized, that's something worth of attention.
There's more than one way to skin a cat and different systems opted for different approaches pursuing the same goal. Only at the end the best can be evaluated.
And of course it's followed by various social phenomena, healthcare is a social entity.
The irony of the situation is it might lead to the same outcome regardless of undertaken actions.

There's possibly some sense and foundation in your claims, and it would be useful to support it with some related (rather than unrelated) examples.
Would be interesting to compare the numbers in the cases of already studied virus infections and this one, for example.
It would give a perspective in understanding the current pandemic and lessen its dramatization since the reason tends to be suppressed by sensationalistic emotional reporting.

 

[spalco]

If 500+ people died every day in car crashes in a region the size of lombardia you can *** bet they would forbid driving until they figure out what's going on. What a ridiculous argument.

Craigee: i hope your parents, grandparents and all other people you love are and stay healthy throughout this crisis! Please have some compassion.

 

[Cookster15]

All of what your are supposing has 0 evidence or credible sources backing it, only your supposed feeling that China never tells the truth, which the anti-China MSM outlets have been relentlessly pushing. The fact that anything negative about China is believable, but anything positive about it must be false.

If you actually took time to read into the measure China took to contain the outbreak, it’s not surprising how China has managed to stop the virus in its tracks. The widespread draconian lockdown was for a period of 2 months, significantly more stringent than the lockdown currently in place around the world. Entrances of all buildings, transport, shops had people taking temperatures and anyone who records a temperature above 37.3 degrees was forced to go to the hospital for extensive tests and quarantine, and in the epicenter Wuhan, no one was even allowed to leave the house for any reason at all. These measures actually bordered on limiting human rights, but was what was required to bring the virus under control.

As for China keeping factories operational? What are you talking about? All western press were all too happy to report on the massive contraction of China’s post-quarantine manufacturing, and economic damage suffered during the outbreak. “Factory activity in China contracted at the fastest pace ever in February, even worse than during the global financial crisis”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-pmi-factory-official-idUSKBN20N03R

So no you are not promoting reality, just clutching onto the sense of exceptionalism that just because China has managed to defeat the coronavirus outbreak, even at a high cost, it must be false.

All which is as credible as anything I wrote. If you actually took time to read into the measure China took to contain the outbreak? Really, read what sanitised information released to the world? Worthless.
As I mentioned. You are posting opinion, not fact. Reported news isn't fact. Its sanitised information. I used logic and reason to doubt China's claims. Even you admit you were critical of China early in the crisis. Well you bring yourself undone right there. It is exactly early in the crisis that the virus spread beyond China's control. If the CCP are paranoid about social cohesion of its people then they don't have such a tight control as you seem willing to believe,. They control the information to the outside world. You rely on this information., It is worthless and you will see when the truth some out.

Sp nNothing you posted does anything to change my mind. As for "Factory activity in China contracted at the fastest pace ever in February, even worse than during the global financial crisis". That means nothing. Again this is reliant on the information the CCP release to the world. As Merzx Index says you seem extraordinarily sensitive about criticism of doubt of China. Why is this?

As for this ...

and in the epicenter Wuhan, no one was even allowed to leave the house for any reason at all.

. When do you think Wuhan was locked down/ How many people walked out before this happened? You don't know. Back to the drawing board for you.

 

[Cookster15]

China now has an uptick of imported cases.

If you are the Chinese Communist Party and you are terrified that China and the party has been badly embarrassed by the virus outbreak what do you do ? You manipulate case numbers to the compliant WHO to show China stopped it in its tracks. You release statements that China now has an uptick of imported cases. Worthless information. You wait and see.

 

[memyselfandI]

Olympics will be postponed, says *** Pound.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sport...s-postponed-***-pound-coronavirus/2899848001/

 

[spalco]

Olympics will be postponed, says *** Pound.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sport...s-postponed-***-pound-coronavirus/2899848001/

Amusingly fitting that his name is censored in this forum.

 

[hrotha]

If you are the Chinese Communist Party and you are terrified that China and the party has been badly embarrassed by the virus outbreak what do you do ? You manipulate case numbers to the compliant WHO to show China stopped it in its tracks. You release statements that China now has an uptick of imported cases. Worthless information. You wait and see.

Why doesn't "wait and see" apply to the assumption, based on no tangible evidence so far, that China's figures are manipulated and useless?

 

[SHaines]

Hi all,

Be sure you've read the forum rules before posting. Those rules absolutely apply in the off topic category as well.

We'll be going through and cleaning out posts that violate the rules, but we'd ask that you avoid getting into political arguments that will not resolve the issue at hand, which is the impact of coronavirus on professional cycling races.

There are ample ways of expressing concerns without this conversation devolving into attacks against any nation, group, or political ideology.

 

[pastronef]

with the Olympics likely to be postponed to 2021, could the TDF start later? July 18 - Aug 9? (Vuelta starts Aug 15)

 

[Joelsim]

I'm sure you've all seen all the exposure this virus has had world wide via today's incredible volume or capacity with technology and the internet. Even the peasants of the world including you and me are getting air time via these vehicles and its dominated by incredible dramatizations by so many. The media is ridiculous these days trying to out do one another with the drama and the citizens of the world are loving having their own individual say via technology and its forcing govts to over react.

15,000 deaths in a world of more than 6 billion? Come on there are so many other diseases and regular causes of death that we don't give a hoot about. A lot more people will die in car accidents world wide this year than from this flu virus. Why don't we stop the driving of cars immediately until we can improve the safety on the roads? Because we just don't care. But we care about this flu a thousand times more. Its new sensational news we can all have a public opinion on and aren't we all loving it.

The world is one big joke today because of the latest communal technology.

Possibly the most ridiculous post I’ve ever seen.

It’s called exponential growth. Those 15,000 deaths could become hundreds of millions if left unchecked.

 

[RedheadDane]

with the Olympics likely to be postponed to 2021, could the TDF start later? July 18 - Aug 9? (Vuelta starts Aug 15)

Providing that the Tour does indeed happen, could riders who were originally planning to focus on the Olympics decide to put more focus on the Tour? Especially since some of them might have been planning to focus on the Giro.

 

[spalco]

Providing that the Tour does indeed happen, could riders who were originally planning to focus on the Olympics decide to put more focus on the Tour? Especially since some of them might have been planning to focus on the Giro.

Nobody knows anything and can't currently rely on peaking for anything.

I suppose the best bet would be trying to maintain a good average form and then go all in in whatever is the first reasonably important race that happens, because who knows what'll come next...

 

[SafeBet]

Olympics are officially postponed.