EPO Era R.I.P. (1987-2008)

[Polish]

One could make a convincing argument that the "EPO Era" has been
the most exciting period in Pro Cycling History? Most successful
period financially that is for SURE!

I started following the sport in the mid-eighties - just as EPO was starting
to be discovered by pro cyclists. So many spectacular race efforts ridden
so many spectacular riders during the last 20 plus years...BelgiumMen,
FrenchMen, ItalianMen, DutchMen, SpanishMen, North&SouthAmericanMen,
RussianMen and so many many more. Many many memorable race days for SURE!!
(In hindsight we realize what fueled those great races ooops.)

Soooo, when will begin to see our first Gene-Doped riders?
Will the races be even more spectacular guilty pleasure...

Will Genedopers still need to blood transfuse to gain an edge
over other Genedopers lol? Or can they manipulate themselves to
have a natural 60% hematicrit level...Or manipulate their appearance
to look like a Cipo yowza.

I would manipulate my genes to be able to ride cross-eyed - looks tough!

 

[red_explosions]

Is this a joke? A bunch of losers turn their blood to treacle and that's supposed to be spectacular? None of those performances were real, more like a comedy circus act. What's so impressive about jacking to 60% so you can go up a mountain breathing through your nose? You're not a cyclist, just a pharmacological experiment.

As for gene dopers, they are welcome to manipulate to 60%. If they want an early death that is.

 

[the truth.]

polish

your front hub is missing a few ball bearings. your back hub is missing an axle and you brain is lacking some common sense.

1.The EPO era is still very much with us 63 positive drug test in the cycling world to date and still 21 EPO convictions.

Already 43% overall up on 2008!

to the rest of you muck - i just hope you are drunk.
i suppose you think tom simpson's final climb was amazing!!!!!. there is nothing spectacular about young guys chemically endangering themselves and being abused by money hungry DS and bent doctors.
they all started as talented kids winning and dreaming. and it ALWAYS ends in shame.

What do you think Jan see in the mirror every morning ?
A spectacular tour winner
or ........

 

[ak-zaaf]

What do you think Jan see in the mirror every morning ?

3 chins???

 

[Race Radio]

What do you think Jan see in the mirror every morning ?
A spectacular tour winner
or ........

Jan does not look in the mirror, he is too busy shoving donuts in his pie hole like they were Tic Tacs.

 

[Polish]

Denial / Anger / Bargaining / Depression / Acceptance

Mr Truth, I can understand your denial...it is a natural part of the
grieving process. But the EPO era is dead
(Sure, a few numbnuts will still try it and get caught - but they are
dead men walking)

Also, Mr Simpson was from the Amphetamine Era. That era is also gone,
although a few numbnuts...

The future seems to be Gene Doping:

http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2005/07/willardoped.html
.
.
.
.

 

[rata de sentina]

gene doping

I for one would like to see a serious discussion about gene doping in this forum, but not in this thread as there are other issues at play in here. Perhaps someone would care to kick one off.

Anyway with regard to the link posted by Polish. I would have thought that this Dr Willard as director of a genome institute wouldn't have been quite so simplistic in his attitude. Surely he has heard of SNPs (single nucleotide polymorphisms which are easily detectable) and what kind of vectors are going to be delivering these genes - also easily detectable) and what kind of promoters are going to be driving them - also easily detectable).

 

[Polish]

Band-Aids on your Boo-Boos

I for one would like to see a serious discussion about gene doping in this forum, but not in this thread as there are other issues at play in here. Perhaps someone would care to kick one off.

Anyway with regard to the link posted by Polish. I would have thought that this Dr Willard as director of a genome institute wouldn't have been quite so simplistic in his attitude. Surely he has heard of SNPs (single nucleotide polymorphisms which are easily detectable) and what kind of vectors are going to be delivering these genes - also easily detectable) and what kind of promoters are going to be driving them - also easily detectable).

Rat, the article I referenced is a few years old, but I found it interesting -
it is aimed at the layman.

But I bet pro riders will be happy to hear your views that detection is simpler than the "expensive and invasive muscle biopsy" testing stated in the article.

Geez, image how riders would complain about a botched muscle biopsy waa waa.

 

[Race Radio]

Mr Truth, I can understand your denial...it is a natural part of the
grieving process. But the EPO era is dead
(Sure, a few numbnuts will still try it and get caught - but they are
dead men walking)

Also, Mr Simpson was from the Amphetamine Era. That era is also gone,
although a few numbnuts...

The future seems to be Gene Doping:

http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2005/07/willardoped.html
.
.
.
.

You make a good point Polish. Methods arrive and retreat, ebb and flow. There certainly have been times when the testing had caught up with the methods and racing is cleaner. I think we are entering a time much like the 80's where there were only a few methods that they could not catch....of course the 80's gave way to the 90's....when it seemed like everything goes.

 

[luckyboy]

I think we are entering a time much like the 80's where there were only a few methods that they could not catch..

Yeah, but people are just inventing/discovering new drugs. Plus, the tests leave enough margin of error so that riders can still microdose and get away with it.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Not to regress, but we actually have discussed gene doping several times here. From the levels of Repoxygen, to stem-cell gene doping, including several links much more recent than the one Polish made from over four years ago now.

I'm sure it is here at some level, though I think still pretty select, and it will increase, and we'll see some dramatic side effects down the line. But I'd hasten to say the EPO era is over, and the gene doping era here. We're still much closer to the former, with autologous blood doping still leading the way at the highest level, as it's undetectable (for the most part, as far as sporting rules goes).

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Not having thought this out entirely, but wouldn't it be better to avoid banning methods that cannot be tested for since it is certain that some (perhaps most) will use anything they believe they can get away with?

 

[rata de sentina]

Not to regress, but we actually have discussed gene doping several times here. From the levels of Repoxygen, to stem-cell gene doping, including several links much more recent than the one Polish made from over four years ago now.

Well I have seen it mentioned from time to time in various threads but I haven't seen much genuine discussion. I've done a search but haven't turned up any threads actually dedicated to gene doping per se.

 

[Bluebeard]

Jan used to experiment with rudimentary gene-doping back in the day. He used to consume four newly born infants just before starting the Tour to make use of their stem cells.

 

[RdBiker]

Is this a joke? A bunch of losers turn their blood to treacle and that's supposed to be spectacular? None of those performances were real, more like a comedy circus act. What's so impressive about jacking to 60% so you can go up a mountain breathing through your nose? You're not a cyclist, just a pharmacological experiment.

As for gene dopers, they are welcome to manipulate to 60%. If they want an early death that is.

Remember to tell that to your wife when you start using viagra Remember, none of those performances will be real

 

[Race Radio]

Yeah, but people are just inventing/discovering new drugs. Plus, the tests leave enough margin of error so that riders can still microdose and get away with it.

This is correct. It goes back to my ebb and flow comment. Periods of relative cleanliness are often followed by some bad periods. Once the testers get the upper hand the Doctors and riders push hard to find the next, untestable, level.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Not having thought this out entirely, but wouldn't it be better to avoid banning methods that cannot be tested for since it is certain that some (perhaps most) will use anything they believe they can get away with?

I believe in about 2000 WADA refined their anti-doping rule to include any type of blood manipulation, and any type of doping on a genetic level. Thus, it isn't the methods that can't be tested in question, it's the doping, period.

But you are right, some will dope no matter what. Back in about 1988 a secret poll was taken of Olympic athletes asking them various questions about steroids, if it was cheating, etc. It was alarming how many were accepting, even blasé about it, and how many were willing to die at the age of 50, or have a 10% chance of dying, in exchange for a gold medal. Someone should try to dig that survey up.

 

[Escarabajo]

I for one would like to see a serious discussion about gene doping in this forum, but not in this thread as there are other issues at play in here. Perhaps someone would care to kick one off.

...

Please be my guest. You can start a thread about Gene Doping only. I am interested in knowing more about it.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

If I get the time I'll see if I can dig up links and start a new thread.

 

[Polish]

Riding with a Third Leg

Methods arrive and retreat, ebb and flow. There certainly have been times when the testing had caught up with the methods and racing is cleaner. I think we are entering a time much like the 80's where there were only a few methods that they could not catch....of course the 80's gave way to the 90's....when it seemed like everything goes.

Race, the "ebb and flow" as you so articulately put it, is the point I was trying to get at thanks

We are in the "ebb" tide now between EPO and Gene Doping - the next level
of doping right?

Several Pro Cyclists, such as Dutch cyclist Johannes Draaijer, starting dropping dead
from EPO/Heart problems in the late 80's and early 1990. That was the end of the last "ebb".

Will we see fatalities or complications as riders start expirementing with
their DNA/Gene Doping?



I understand the Chinese are at the forefront of Gene Doping research currently.

Of course, there are bugs and side-effects to be dealt with - as you can see in their
latest prototype codenamed "YingYang":