European Championship 2025: Men’s RR, October 5

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yes I will say Indurain. He won the biggest races in the world by demolishing people in this discipline, and he did that over and over again.
Coppi, Merckx, Hinault, and Anquetil and Cancellara of course. Maybe Moser too.

Farcical. An absolute joke.

Coppi won 17 ITT's (Trofeo Baracchi isn't an ITT) many against a very narrow international field. If he won more which aren't documented on PCS, that likely means they were obscure amateur races. And while you can argue he had years taken away due to WW2, his winrate was also worse with 17/42. So i have no idea in what world you want to dig up some more fossils, but this ain't it. Him not being able to race during WW2 is a shame, but he didn't win anything so you can't say anything sensible about that. I too like to argue Evenepoel could have been WCC ITT in 2020 and 2021, but he got injured in 2020 and so he didn't compete and was still on the way back in 2021, hence you can't use that to pad the stats when comparing to Cancellara or others.

Moser won 17 ITT's out of 69 in his career over 12 years, again Trofeo Baracchi aren't ITT's. He did not have the excuse of a worldwar, so how on earth you even mention him is all sorts of delusional. Most of his wins come from the Giro.

Hinault also has a worse win rate, but he was lucky to race in an era where the TDF organizers offered him 4 ITT's per year in his peak so his win count is higher (40/91). Merckx has 56/108.

Evenepoel is 23 out of 46, including the biggest ITT's on the planet, 3x worlds, 2x euros, 1x olympics, at 25 years of age, ignoring other feats such as silver at the WCC ITT at 19 years of age. So for now i will agree with Cancellara. Indurain doesn't have nearly the win rate to be in the conversation. For every ITT he won by demolishing the opposition, he lost 3 or 4. Regarding how he won those, that is a matter for the clinic. Moser, has to be a joke, Coppi likewise. Enquetil and Merckx, if you want to count an era where the opposition were chainsmoking alcoholics who were racing on saddles too low and rode with their legs open, then sure, they won more. Hinault was blessed the organisers of the Tour de France were... French. Does it make him more worthy of the moniker "best of all time"? Maybe to you.

I am willing to give you 3 of your 7 ignoring the vast historical chasm. Maybe 4 on a sunny day.

 

[Blanco]

Farcical. An absolute joke.

Coppi won 17 ITT's (Trofeo Baracchi isn't an ITT) many against a very narrow international field. If he won more which aren't documented on PCS, that likely means they were obscure amateur races. And while you can argue he had years taken away due to WW2, his winrate was also worse with 17/42. So i have no idea in what world you want to dig up some more fossils, but this ain't it. Him not being able to race during WW2 is a shame, but he didn't win anything so you can't say anything sensible about that. I too like to argue Evenepoel could have been WCC ITT in 2020 and 2021, but he got injured in 2020 and so he didn't compete and was still on the way back in 2021, hence you can't use that to pad the stats when comparing to Cancellara or others.

Moser won 17 ITT's out of 69 in his career over 12 years, again Trofeo Baracchi aren't ITT's. He did not have the excuse of a worldwar, so how on earth you even mention him is all sorts of delusional. Most of his wins come from the Giro.

Hinault also has a worse win rate, but he was lucky to race in an era where the TDF organizers offered him 4 ITT's per year in his peak so his win count is higher (40/91). Merckx has 56/108.

Evenepoel is 23 out of 46, including the biggest ITT's on the planet, 3x worlds, 2x euros, 1x olympics, at 25 years of age, ignoring other feats such as silver at the WCC ITT at 19 years of age. So for now i will agree with Cancellara. Indurain doesn't have nearly the win rate to be in the conversation. For every ITT he won by demolishing the opposition, he lost 3 or 4. Regarding how he won those, that is a matter for the clinic. Moser, has to be a joke, Coppi likewise. Enquetil and Merckx, if you want to count an era where the opposition were chainsmoking alcoholics who were racing on saddles too low and rode with their legs open, then sure, they won more. Hinault was blessed the organisers of the Tour de France were... French. Does it make him more worthy of the moniker "best of all time"? Maybe to you.

I am willing to give you 3 of your 7 ignoring the vast historical chasm. Maybe 4 on a sunny day.

First about Indurain:
Indurain rode only one WC and won it. He rode one Olympics and aslo won it. He won 8 out of 10 TT's in his reigning Tour de France period 1991-1995. That two he had lost were at the very end of the race where he was many minutes ahead of oppostion, so he probably eased up in those. He won 4/6 TT's in Giro. He won 7 Grand Tours mostly due to TT ability. What he has done in 1990-1996 period was total dominance in time-trialing. If the WC was held in those years Indurain would be a multiple champion, no doubt. For me, his achievements stands above Remco's, at leatst for now.

Coppi was an Hour record holder, multiple winner of most important TT races from that time , GP des Nations - won 2/4, GP Lugano and Trofeo Barrachi (yes it was not an ITT but a couple TT, but was a major TT event in which individual TT skill had great importance). Won multiple Giro and Tour time trials, although there weren't many of them in those days. his win rate was 50% or above for the whole time until his last two season when he was 40-year old. I wouldn't say he was superior TT-ist than Remco, but I wouldn't say that he was lessr either. Remco will certainly surpass him but for now i would rank them as equal.

Moser, also an hour record holder, 14-time GT ITT stage winner (although you're right, mostly Giro). Funny, PCS counts him 41 win, but you count 17 (though to prologue wins I guess, but those are also TT's). I agree with you here, though, I count Remco higher than him in the ITT hierarchy.

Hinault, 51 win listed on PCS, 5-time winner of the GP des Nations (sort of an unofficial WC), 26 times Grand Tour ITT stage winner! (20-Tour de France!!!) No, I don't think Remco is there yet...

Anquetil, Merckx and Cancellara I won't even elaborate. They are simply better.

 

[AmRacer]

Farcical. An absolute joke.

Coppi won 17 ITT's (Trofeo Baracchi isn't an ITT) many against a very narrow international field. If he won more which aren't documented on PCS, that likely means they were obscure amateur races. And while you can argue he had years taken away due to WW2, his winrate was also worse with 17/42. So i have no idea in what world you want to dig up some more fossils, but this ain't it. Him not being able to race during WW2 is a shame, but he didn't win anything so you can't say anything sensible about that. I too like to argue Evenepoel could have been WCC ITT in 2020 and 2021, but he got injured in 2020 and so he didn't compete and was still on the way back in 2021, hence you can't use that to pad the stats when comparing to Cancellara or others.

Moser won 17 ITT's out of 69 in his career over 12 years, again Trofeo Baracchi aren't ITT's. He did not have the excuse of a worldwar, so how on earth you even mention him is all sorts of delusional. Most of his wins come from the Giro.

Hinault also has a worse win rate, but he was lucky to race in an era where the TDF organizers offered him 4 ITT's per year in his peak so his win count is higher (40/91). Merckx has 56/108.

Evenepoel is 23 out of 46, including the biggest ITT's on the planet, 3x worlds, 2x euros, 1x olympics, at 25 years of age, ignoring other feats such as silver at the WCC ITT at 19 years of age. So for now i will agree with Cancellara. Indurain doesn't have nearly the win rate to be in the conversation. For every ITT he won by demolishing the opposition, he lost 3 or 4. Regarding how he won those, that is a matter for the clinic. Moser, has to be a joke, Coppi likewise. Enquetil and Merckx, if you want to count an era where the opposition were chainsmoking alcoholics who were racing on saddles too low and rode with their legs open, then sure, they won more. Hinault was blessed the organisers of the Tour de France were... French. Does it make him more worthy of the moniker "best of all time"? Maybe to you.

I am willing to give you 3 of your 7 ignoring the vast historical chasm. Maybe 4 on a sunny day.

Did Olympics and Worlds ITT exist back then?

 

[kingjr]

First about Indurain:
Indurain rode only one WC and won it. He rode one Olympics and aslo won it. He won 8 out of 10 TT's in his reigning Tour de France period 1991-1995. That two he had lost were at the very end of the race where he was many minutes ahead of oppostion, so he probably eased up in those. He won 4/6 TT's in Giro. He won 7 Grand Tours mostly due to TT ability. What he has done in 1990-1996 period was total dominance in time-trialing. If the WC was held in those years Indurain would be a multiple champion, no doubt. For me, his achievements stands above Remco's, at leatst for now.

Coppi was an Hour record holder, multiple winner of most important TT races from that time , GP des Nations - won 2/4, GP Lugano and Trofeo Barrachi (yes it was not an ITT but a couple TT, but was a major TT event in which individual TT skill had great importance). Won multiple Giro and Tour time trials, although there weren't many of them in those days. his win rate was 50% or above for the whole time until his last two season when he was 40-year old. I wouldn't say he was superior TT-ist than Remco, but I wouldn't say that he was lessr either. Remco will certainly surpass him but for now i would rank them as equal.

Moser, also an hour record holder, 14-time GT ITT stage winner (although you're right, mostly Giro). Funny, PCS counts him 41 win, but you count 17 (though to prologue wins I guess, but those are also TT's). I agree with you here, though, I count Remco higher than him in the ITT hierarchy.

Hinault, 51 win listed on PCS, 5-time winner of the GP des Nations (sort of an unofficial WC), 26 times Grand Tour ITT stage winner! (20-Tour de France!!!) No, I don't think Remco is there yet...

Anquetil, Merckx and Cancellara I won't even elaborate. They are simply better.

Cancellara is more like Ganna.

 

[rallybanana]

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