Favorite climbs in Grand Tours

[OlavEH]

A Pantani tribute stage with a finish in LdA is probably the nmbest thing if you want action on the Galibier. Put a monster mtf like Loze 1 day earlier and 1 or 2 proper climbs before the Galibier.

I'm still waiting for a stage where they do Iseran (the whole climb) and Galibier before Les Deux Alpes.......

 

[Mayomaniac]

I'm still waiting for a stage where they do Iseran (the whole climb) and Galibier before Les Deux Alpes.......

I'd probably prefer Croix de Fer from North-West right before the Galibier.
Yes, you don't have the same altitude, but the climb is harder and you have a lot less flat before the Galibier.

Maybe with a start in Grenoble or Chambery and a climb right at the start, that would be a sweet stage.

 

[Red Rick]

I'd probably prefer Croix de Fer from North-West right before the Galibier.
Yes, you don't have the same altitude, but the climb is harder and you have a lot less flat before the Galibier.

Maybe with a start in Grenoble or Chambery and a climb right at the start, that would be a sweet stage.

It would be good in a way many stages with 2HCs and 2 cat 1s can be good. You have to dedicate the queen stage to make Galibier be the centre piece of that and then I don't think Galibier-L2A is that amazing in the first place.

 

[Mayomaniac]

It would be good in a way many stages with 2HCs and 2 cat 1s can be good. You have to dedicate the queen stage to make Galibier be the centre piece of that and then I don't think Galibier-L2A is that amazing in the first place.

Yeah, but you can't do much better with the Galibier. Maybe an Alpe d'Huez MTF via Sarenne, but that's about it.

 

[OlavEH]

I'd probably prefer Croix de Fer from North-West right before the Galibier.
Yes, you don't have the same altitude, but the climb is harder and you have a lot less flat before the Galibier.

Maybe with a start in Grenoble or Chambery and a climb right at the start, that would be a sweet stage.

Yeah, it was more about having a stage with two climbs above 2600m. The only other obvious option I can think of doing that is a Stelvio-Gavia stage. Iseran would proably be soft-pedalled, but the climbs is really long and at a high altitude. It will probably be felt. And with fairly easy LDA as the MTF, it increases the chances of having an attack on the last tough kilometers of Galibier north.

Anyway, this should be realistic stages for ASO to design/use. Madeleine/Iseran/Croix-de-Fer before Galibier and LDA (or Granon) is tough, but not ridiculously tough as some of the stages we've designed in the race design thread. It's a bit shame that the mountain stages in the Alps with most height meters is typically like the Alpe stage next year or in 2018. That's pretty uninspiring stage design.

 

[skippo12]

but not ridiculously tough

Define ridicolous tough. In theory it is possible to do a Bonnette/Vars/Izoard/Agnel stage and it wouldn´t even set records for length or total elevation gain.

 

[ice&fire]

Define ridicolous tough. In theory it is possible to do a Bonnette/Vars/Izoard/Agnel stage and it wouldn´t even set records for length or total elevation gain.

Vars N/Izoard S/Agnel N all connect to Guillestre, so only two of them and can be put in a sequence.

 

[Red Rick]

Define ridicolous tough. In theory it is possible to do a Bonnette/Vars/Izoard/Agnel stage and it wouldn´t even set records for length or total elevation gain.

In modern days that's easily considered ridiculous.

For "feasable" combinations with high altitude, I still think Agnello-Izoard and Stelvio-Foscagno into Livigno are among the best combinations.

 

[Red Rick]

Vars N/Izoard S/Agnel N all connect to Guillestre, so only two of them and can be put in a sequence.

You're right.

Agnello south, Vars N and then Bonnette north is feasable. Probably wouldn't get Auron finish with that tho and I think it kinda defeats the purpose of the Agnello.

 

[Netserk]

If you want action on Galibier, do it after Alpe d'Huez/Sarenne.

 

[Nirvana]

You're right.

Agnello south, Vars N and then Bonnette north is feasable. Probably wouldn't get Auron finish with that tho and I think it kinda defeats the purpose of the Agnello.

Agnello + Vars and a descent finish wouldn't be bad to have action on the Agnello, going beyond and putting another big climb would neutralize it like in the 2011 Tour with Galibier after Izoard and having such a climb to just put fatigue in the legs is a waste, a couple of lesser climbs could do that fine.

 

[skippo12]

For "feasable" combinations with high altitude, I still think Agnello-Izoard and Stelvio-Foscagno into Livigno are among the best combinations.

Just talking about elevation gain and high altitude we have seen (or not because the weather wouldn´t allow it) some of the more feasable (not really creative) combinations in the Giro. Gavia/Stelvio/Val Martello in 2014. Mortirollo/Stelvio/Umbrail in 2017. Could also add Foscagno. Still leaving the option to do a number of combinations. Basically doing circuits around Bormio.

 

[ice&fire]

Just talking about elevation gain and high altitude we have seen (or not because the weather wouldn´t allow it) some of the more feasable (not really creative) combinations in the Giro. Gavia/Stelvio/Val Martello in 2014. Mortirollo/Stelvio/Umbrail in 2017. Could also add Foscagno. Still leaving the option to do a number of combinations. Basically doing circuits around Bormio.

Climb Stelvio from Prato, descend Umbrail, repeat.

 

[Red Rick]

Climb Stelvio from Prato, descend Umbrail, repeat.

Don't dilute Stelvio like that.

Stelvio-Gavio-Tonale would be epic I think if they didn't worry so much about the Gavia descent. Approaching Stelvio with decent climbing is a little hard, but Giovo or Castrin shoudl be decent enough.

 

[skippo12]

Climb Stelvio from Prato, descend Umbrail, repeat.

No time limit but whoever is getting lapped is out.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Ponte di Legno - Kaunertaler Gletscher, Gavia-Stelvio-Reschen-Kaunertaler Gletscherstraße.
3 HC climbs over 2,600m of altitude in one stage, probably Zomegnan approved.

 

[railxmig]

There are favorites, there are also the ones that often deliver and sometimes they're not the hardest nor distinct. Such climbs like Morcuera, Saisies south, Peille/Saint-Pancrace (Nice) or Mendola are non-descript cat. 1 climbs on a stagnant 6-7% gradient.

I do like Madeleine & Croix de Fer/Glandon north, Passo Sella/Gardena/Pordoi (views), any Etna climbs and many more... i don't think i have a personal favourite or i just don't remember it.

 

[ice&fire]

Don't dilute Stelvio like that.

Stelvio-Gavio-Tonale would be epic I think if they didn't worry so much about the Gavia descent. Approaching Stelvio with decent climbing is a little hard, but Giovo or Castrin shoudl be decent enough.

2017 Bormio stage with Gavia from Ponte di Legno instead of Mortirolo, and the Umbrail-Stelvio loop clockwise.

 

[Red Rick]

2017 Bormio stage with Gavia from Ponte di Legno instead of Mortirolo, and the Umbrail-Stelvio loop clockwise.

Gavia is why Mortirolo from Edolo is infuriating.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Gavia is why Mortirolo from Edolo is infuriating.

Gavia would just get cancelled even if there was no avalanche risk. Teams have gotten very soft and can get the stage altered at any point. Cold temperatures are enough to get a stage nerfed.

This year the Giro had the softest route on paper after the cancellations, with zero >4000m+ stages (the two hardest stages were >3900m, though), while the Tour had three 4500m+ stages and another one at almost 4400m.

Vuelta was similar with two 4700m+ stages, a 4400m+ stage and one at around 4200m. IIRC

I use the Denivel+ stats over at LaFlammeRouge

I think RCS made the right call this time (given how soft the teams have gotten), although their claim that the queen stage is 5800m+ is ludicrous. LFR has it at 5200-ish.

Even if the Fedaia stage gets partially cancelled there are two other stages that feature more climbing. The Blockhaus stage comes in at 4900m+(!) to my surprise:

Giro d'Italia 2022 - Stage 9

Route of Giro d'Italia tracked with La Flamme Rouge editor. Isernia > Blockhaus: 191.61 Km - High mountain

www.la-flamme-rouge.eu

 

[Red Rick]

Gavia would just get cancelled even if there was no avalanche risk. Teams have gotten very soft and can get the stage altered at any point. Cold temperatures are enough to get a stage nerfed.

This year the Giro had the softest route on paper after the cancellations, with zero >4000m+ stages (the two hardest stages were >3900m, though), while the Tour had three 4500m+ stages and another one at almost 4400m.

Vuelta was similar with two 4700m+ stages, a 4400m+ stage and one at around 4200m. IIRC

I use the Denivel+ stats over at LaFlammeRouge

I think RCS made the right call this time (given how soft the teams have gotten), although their claim that the queen stage is 5800m+ is ludicrous. LFR has it at 5200-ish.

Even if the Fedaia stage gets partially cancelled there are two other stages that feature more climbing. The Blockhaus stage comes in at 4900m+(!) to my surprise:

Giro d'Italia 2022 - Stage 9

Route of Giro d'Italia tracked with La Flamme Rouge editor. Isernia > Blockhaus: 191.61 Km - High mountain

www.la-flamme-rouge.eu

So if they finish higher they'll hit 5000?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Speaking about possible monster stages I can't help myself with posting this again:

This is some serious climbing. You can take just 100-120 km of this to make the hardest stage of the year.

 

[OlavEH]

Define ridicolous tough. In theory it is possible to do a Bonnette/Vars/Izoard/Agnel stage and it wouldn´t even set records for length or total elevation gain.

6000 height meters and 220+ km would be that kind of stage.

In the Tour I think the toughest we could possible see is something like Madeleine/Croix de Fer - Galibier - Granon in the Alps or Peyresourde - Aspin - Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden in the Pyrenees. Or something equivalent. It is about as hard as think ASO would/could make a stage.

You could do both Madeleine and Croix de Fer before the the two other climbs in the Alps and do Portillon - Peyresourde - Azet - Ancizan - Tourmalet - Luz in the Pyrenees, and still be well within reasoable length. But I don't think it's plausible.

Don't dilute Stelvio like that.

Stelvio-Gavio-Tonale would be epic I think if they didn't worry so much about the Gavia descent. Approaching Stelvio with decent climbing is a little hard, but Giovo or Castrin shoudl be decent enough.

Or Tonale - Gavia - Stelvio and a finish at Solda.

 

[Red Rick]

Meanwhile I'm looking at the Canarias just gimme a Vuelta there one day man.

 

[ice&fire]

Meanwhile I'm looking at the Canarias just gimme a Vuelta there one day man.

They'd find incredible ways to misuse the available terrain.