Fignon's claims about the legality of Lemond's 1989 aero bars

[blutto]

...convenient story.

...I would prefer to donate my time to an organization like Special Olympics. People like you benefit so much more from that than just sending monetary donations to the organization.

Best regards

TFF

...sorry...true story...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Anonymous]

...sorry...true story...

Cheers

blutto

...I know, and it is really good that you can comprehend the fact that you need my attention rather than money. Good for you little fella! Hey man, everybody gets a medal, but you really are special anyway.

Best regards,

TFF

 

[The Hitch]

I usually dont mind the picture arguments that come up now and again, but this one is a bit unfair and potentially very offensive. Just my opinion.

 

[Race Radio]

You are right, I will delete it.

 

[blutto]

...convenient story.

...I would prefer to donate my time to an organization like Special Olympics. People like you benefit so much more from that than just sending monetary donations to the organization.

Best regards

TFF

..."donate my time"?...what happended to that side bet?...you aren't welching out are you?...oh that's right you are the gent that is studying to be a lawyer...sorry never made the connection...now its starting to make some sense...but you do realize you don't have to emulate the evil stereotype there actually is an honest option in the legal profession...save yourself now because once you are down that road even a bit there is no heading back...

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

I usually dont mind the picture arguments that come up now and again, but this one is a bit unfair and potentially very offensive. Just my opinion.

...so glad that you made this point because the commentary since the original posting was either "blatantly" ignoring it or playing off it...needless to say they all shared a "particular predisposition" or "club allegiance"...good on them as the saying goes, ...but there is another point here, very rich in irony, that should not be missed...rumour has it that one of The Golden One's children is "neuro-developmentally delayed"....

...so....would love to be at the next "club" meeting where Kathy makes sure that several members of this forum leave carrying one less than Lance ( if you know what I mean, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more, say no more )...and they would probably have to turn in their secret decoder rings too..and that will indeed be a sad day in Ville de Gadoue...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Anonymous]

..."donate my time"?...what happended to that side bet?...you aren't welching out are you?...oh that's right you are the gent that is studying to be a lawyer...sorry never made the connection...now its starting to make some sense...but you do realize you don't have to emulate the evil stereotype there actually is an honest option in the legal profession...save yourself now because once you are down that road even a bit there is no heading back...

Cheers

blutto

...oh, sorry, I didn't know you were referring to the lie about not having to look up the Napoleonic Code. Its cool, I wouldn't want to admit something that embarrassing right after having my a$$ handed to me about an argument I made for days that was logically flawed either. Don't think I didn't notice your surrender flag on the issue. Its cool you rascally little tyke. Hey, see you at the track!

Best regards,

TFF

 

[Anonymous]

...so glad that you made this point...but there is another point here, very rich in irony, that should not be missed...rumour has it that one of The Golden One's children is as they say "neuro-developmentally delayed"....

...so....would love to be at the next "club" meeting where Kathy makes sure that several members of this forum leave carrying one less than Lance ( if you know what I mean, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more, say no more )...and they would probably have to turn in their secret decoder rings too..and that will indeed be a sad day in Ville de Gadoue...

Cheers

blutto

...why not take the initiative and throw out the moral outrage for her. I mean, you are much closer to the issue than she.

Best regards,

TFF

 

[blutto]

...why not take the initiative and throw out the moral outrage for her. I mean, you are much closer to the issue than she.

Best regards,

TFF

...dude...you are like money in the bank....or better still, gold buried in the back yard...paper/digital blips in a bank is so yesterday wouldn't you say...

...and you're going to be a lawyer...tilt!...

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

...oh, sorry, I didn't know you were referring to the lie about not having to look up the Napoleonic Code. Its cool, I wouldn't want to admit something that embarrassing right after having my a$$ handed to me about an argument I made for days that was logically flawed either. Don't think I didn't notice your surrender flag on the issue. Its cool you rascally little tyke. Hey, see you at the track!

Best regards,

TFF

...you ride the track?....that's way cool or something appropriately colloquial....bit flumoxed about this surrender flag thing though...

...by the way it was a cheddar cheese sandwich, the coffee was with milk and the UCI is headquartered in Switzerland....

Cheers

blutto

 

[Anonymous]

...dude...you are like money in the bank....or better still, gold buried in the back yard...paper/digital blips in a bank is so yesterday wouldn't you say...

...and you're going to be a lawyer...tilt!...

Cheers

blutto

...you really can't defend your arguments on this thread anymore, can you? (Don't answer, I already know. It was a rhetorical question. You can look rhetorical up on Wiki too!)

Best regards,

TFF

 

[Anonymous]

...you ride the track?....that's way cool or something appropriately colloquial....bit flumoxed about this surrender flag thing though...

Cheers

blutto

...you're not sharp enough to pick up on the reference, and I am not going to hold your hand through explaining it. I am willing to cheer you on as you race down the track, but leading a moron to water isn't worth my time because you wouldn't understand it was water when you got there anyway.

Best regards,

TFF

 

[Anonymous]

...tell ya what blutto, you lost the argument, so I will grant you the final word. You aren't worth any more effort as beating up on the simple minded is sadistic and casts me in a bad light.

...try some ginkgo, you might be able to tie your shoes and chew gum at the same time in just a few weeks! Good luck little fella!

Best regards,

TFF

 

[blutto]

...you're not sharp enough to pick up on the reference, and I am not going to hold your hand through explaining it. I am willing to cheer you on as you race down the track, but leading a moron to water isn't worth my time because you wouldn't understand it was water when you got there anyway.

Best regards,

TFF

...I think I know what your problem is...we all know freeper logic( which is what you knowingly or unknowingly use ) involves extensive use of strawmen in arguments...well, sometimes strawmen are useful but overuse ( as is common with freepers) leads to a blurring of the line between reality and the fantasy world inhabited primarily by your strawmen...as a result you end up having conversations that are more or less with yourself that could, if left unchecked, lead you to the funny farm...just a warning from a friend...because I care...

...and how do I know this?...just a gift I have, I'm special you know...that and your weird/pathological insistance that I visited Google when ( and this is the critical part ) in reality ( like real reality ) I was eating a sandwich and drinking a coffee....

..good luck with that...and just remember strawmen bad!....reality good!...

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

...tell ya what blutto, you lost the argument, so I will grant you the final word. You aren't worth any more effort as beating up on the simple minded is sadistic and casts me in a bad light.

...try some ginkgo, you might be able to tie your shoes and chew gum at the same time in just a few weeks! Good luck little fella!

Best regards,

TFF

...casting you in a bad light?...dude you've been playing off that Special Olympics thing that one of your fellow Familiars threw up, for several posts now, and you are worried about bad light....you have dug such a deep hole for yourself on that score that there is no light where you are, bad or otherwise...in fact you are so deep they are going to have pump air to you ( thank you Mr Diddley)...

...so don't worry about your reputation because frankly you don't have one anymore...

...but hey, think of the bright side, you are going to be a lawyer soon so consider this sort of like training wheels...because its going to be all dark where you are going...have fun...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Oldman]

...tell ya what blutto, you lost the argument, so I will grant you the final word. You aren't worth any more effort as beating up on the simple minded is sadistic and casts me in a bad light.

...try some ginkgo, you might be able to tie your shoes and chew gum at the same time in just a few weeks! Good luck little fella!

Best regards,

TFF

Blutto started this thread to get a date. Looks like you can get him to buy dinner but you'll have to explain that's all he can expect...

 

[Anonymous]

Blutto started this thread to get a date. Looks like you can get him to buy dinner but you'll have to explain that's all he can expect...

I put him on ignore, so he will have to ask by proxy. If he plays his cards right, I would consider letting him touch my Ibis though.

 

[Lucky1]

Not the only one

They were not illegal and Lemond was not the only rider using them. Some of the 7-11's used them that year as well.

Yes - including Sean Yates and Andy Hampsten.

Its also worth noting that Fignon wore an aerodymanic helmet in the earlier time trial but strangely not during the Champs Elysees TT. Had Fignon equalled the time of his own team mate, done without Tri-bars, i.e. Thierry Marie, he would have done enough to win the Tour.

That said I have nothing against the Professor - his passing is a very sad loss. Also, whilst I am personally not that pursuaded by his argument against Lemond's tri-bars, I think he does have more of a point on Lemond's 'wheel-sucker' tactics during the 1989 Tour. During the Alpes in particular Lemond's approach was effectively to glue himself to the wheels of Fignon and Delgado who were by far the more aggressive riders. Had Lemond not been returning from his shooting accident I don't think it would have been a particularly impressive way to have won a Tour (I think the claims about his team being too weak for aggressive tactics are overblown too - surely that shouldn't have stopped him attacking in the last 5k of mountain stages). For me Lemond's great victory was his slaying of the badger in the 1986 Tour.

Overall, in my view the best rider in the 1989 Tour came third. Had Delgado shown up on time for the prologue time trial and therefore had a sleepless night afterwards leading to a terrible performance in the following team time trial, he would have deservedly won by a significant margin.

 

[ultimobici]

Yes - including Sean Yates and Andy Hampsten.

Its also worth noting that Fignon wore an aerodymanic helmet in the earlier time trial but strangely not during the Champs Elysees TT. Had Fignon equalled the time of his own team mate, done without Tri-bars, i.e. Thierry Marie, he would have done enough to win the Tour.

That said I have nothing against the Professor - his passing is a very sad loss. Also, whilst I am personally not that pursuaded by his argument against Lemond's tri-bars, I think he does have more of a point on Lemond's 'wheel-sucker' tactics during the 1989 Tour. During the Alpes in particular Lemond's approach was effectively to glue himself to the wheels of Fignon and Delgado who were by far the more aggressive riders. Had Lemond not been returning from his shooting accident I don't think it would have been a particularly impressive way to have won a Tour (I think the claims about his team being too weak for aggressive tactics are overblown too - surely that shouldn't have stopped him attacking in the last 5k of mountain stages). For me Lemond's great victory was his slaying of the badger in the 1986 Tour.

Overall, in my view the best rider in the 1989 Tour came third. Had Delgado shown up on time for the prologue time trial and therefore had a sleepless night afterwards leading to a terrible performance in the following team time trial, he would have deservedly won by a significant margin.

I think you need to read Fignon's book for yourself. He doesn't say Lemond broke the rules, far from it.

As for Lemond's wheelsucking, what was he supposed to do against two of the biggest teams in the sport? Fignon & Delgado had strong dedicated teams to support them, Lemond had a bunch of unpaid Belgian sprinters most of whom failed to make it past the Pyrenees let alone to Paris!


Frank Hoste lasted 10 stages before being eliminated
Jaanus Kuum lasted 10 stages before being eliminated
Eddy Planckaert lasted 15 stages before being eliminated
Ronny Van Holen lasted 11 stages before abandoning
Philip Van Vooren lasted 9 stages before abandoning
Johan Lammerts, Rene Martens & Johan Museeuw made it to Paris

When you look at the time splits on the mountain stages and compare them to Super U & Reynolds you can see that the ADR riders were being shelled out on the early climbs each day rather than being dropped on the last climb after doing their job.

In fact Super U & Reynolds lost one rider between them, Heinz Imboden of Super U abandoned on stage 10 to Superbagneres.

 

[Roland Rat]

They were not illegal and Lemond was not the only rider using them. Some of the 7-11's used them that year as well.

Wasn't Fignon offered the choice but rejected them? Only himself to blame.

 

[Osceola]

They were not illegal and Lemond was not the only rider using them. Some of the 7-11's used them that year as well.

Yes, in a Youtube video you can see Hanpsten using them on stage 5, that same year. Lemond used them on stage 5, 15 (although it was hilly, on a road bike) and 21.