Flashback to Hinault-LeMond "betrayal"?

[2wheels]

Anyone getting déja vu feelings about the possibility of Vino pulling a Hinault tomorrow? I'm no cycling historian; maybe someone could correct this or add to it, but I'm thinking that in one Tour Hinault basically attacked his own teammate (LeMond, and in yellow!) and forced LeMond to chase him down or else lose the Tour.

If Vino goes with the break tomorrow, could we see something similar?

 

[Wolves-Lower]

I wouldn't be suprised if Vino attacks...but that is 7+ minutes, and I think he is a team player with Alberto.

 

[Oldman]

I wouldn't be suprised if Vino attacks...but that is 7+ minutes, and I think he is a team player with Alberto.

As long as Contador has alot of surrounding support Vino going up the road is decent strategy. Vino wants his team to win and I doubt he'd betray Conta but this has been an interesting Tour. Hinault, on the other hand never honored any of the guarantees to Lemond and actively split the team to derail him. This after Lemond gave Hinault his last Tour win under team directive.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

If Vino goes with the break tomorrow, could we see something similar?

Only if the people in place 2-8 are going to just watch. And then it is still 7 minutes or so. So just not going to happen.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Contador is negotiating a contract with Astana. Plus, Vino has worked tirelessly for Contador this Tour.

Why, in the face of all evidence to the contrary, do we still have such threads popping up? Why? Are people not watching the race?

 

[2wheels]

Only if the people in place 2-8 are going to just watch. And then it is still 7 minutes or so. So just not going to happen.

If I were in place 2-8, I'd be sorely tempted to watch for quite a while and see what place #1 thinks of it all.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

If I were in place 2-8, I'd be sorely tempted to watch for quite a while and see what place #1 thinks of it all.

Then you'd end up in place 3-9.

 

[2wheels]

Then you'd end up in place 3-9.

So you really think Contador would sit and watch Vino take yellow?

 

[Big GMaC]

Yes. Contador will win in the TT anyway

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

So you really think Contador would sit and watch Vino take yellow?

The others will chase Vino down. Contador will follow wheels, then attack when they tire. Schleck knows he can't out-TT Vino either. If Vino wins, somebody's getting knocked off the podium.

So yes. That's exactly what Contador will do. Sit and watch.

 

[2wheels]

Well, it's just an interesting scenario to me, and I think it's hard to know Vino's mind. He's in great form, and a national hero to boot; if he found himself in or near virtual yellow at the foot of Tourmalet, the temptations might be pretty strong. There's still a bit of tarnish on his halo in my eyes; I think the bottom line is that he's a guy who really likes to win bike races. Let's ask Ullrich if he thinks Vino would attack a teammate who was higher placed on GC. . .

 

[red_flanders]

Anyone getting déja vu feelings about the possibility of Vino pulling a Hinault tomorrow? I'm no cycling historian; maybe someone could correct this or add to it, but I'm thinking that in one Tour Hinault basically attacked his own teammate (LeMond, and in yellow!) and forced LeMond to chase him down or else lose the Tour.

If Vino goes with the break tomorrow, could we see something similar?

No. If Vino goes in the break it's advantage Astana. It forces Saxo to pull.

There is no parallel between this situation and 1986. In 1986 the 2 strongest riders in the race were Hinault and Lemond. This is not the case with Vino and Contador. In '85 Lemond sacrificed his own chances for Hinault. Vino has no realistic chance to win. Just not similar.

The Vino/villain angle was tired before this race, and has been completely disproven in this Tour. Vino couldn't cause a winning move if he wanted to, and he doesn't. I wish this line of discussion could come to an end.

 

[red_flanders]

Well, it's just an interesting scenario to me, and I think it's hard to know Vino's mind.

You don't need to know his mind. Just watch his actions.

Is the "Vino is a villain" meme so ingrained by the English media that people can't see the facts as they unfold in the race? Maybe turn off the sound and watch. Much easier to see what's actually happening.

 

[Barnaby]

All Vino needs is LOADS of water bottles tomorrow and plenty of JD after in advance of the TT. There is a precedent

 

[Christophe]

It seems to me that there's a lot of leftover Cold War rubbish floating around. How many times in the western cycling media do you hear the phrase 'beloved eastern bloc cyclist' thrown around? Only with regard to Jens!

Seriously, Vino has proven an exceedingly valuable teammate to AC, can we not be done with this speculation?

 

[2wheels]

You don't need to know his mind. Just watch his actions.

Is the "Vino is a villain" meme so ingrained by the English media that people can't see the facts as they unfold in the race? Maybe turn off the sound and watch. Much easier to see what's actually happening.

I watch it on my laptop-- Eurosport, with French commentary. Nothing against Vino in particular; I don't think he's any better or worse than the others in the peloton. I've purposely avoided having any Borat-style fun with Vino, too. Like a lot of folks, I actually enjoy watching him race.

My point is simply that the planets are aligned in an interesting way here. See it on a spectrum: Is it good for Contador/Astana to send Vino up the road tomorrow? Probably. Will other teams chase him? I don't know. So, if I'm Contador, how does it feel if he's six minutes up the road and riding like the wind? How does it feel to be Vino then? For me, it's just an intriguing "what if."

 

[Hugh Januss]

Then you'd end up in place 3-9.

I laughed outloud!

 

[icefire]

Anyone getting déja vu feelings about the possibility of Vino pulling a Hinault tomorrow? I'm no cycling historian; maybe someone could correct this or add to it, but I'm thinking that in one Tour Hinault basically attacked his own teammate (LeMond, and in yellow!) and forced LeMond to chase him down or else lose the Tour.

If Vino goes with the break tomorrow, could we see something similar?

Go back to review the history. When Hinault attacked LeMond in 1986, LeMond was not in the yellow jersey.

Hinault had promised to help LeMond in 1986 in return for his support the year before. Actually LeMond was cheated in 1985 when he was asked to wait for Hinault in a stage in the Pyrinees including the Tourmalet and the first finish in Luz Ardiden. Weather was terrible and the TV broadcast I recall was basically a still image of the finish for most of the time.

In 1986 Hinault had won the long ITT before the first mountain stage so it might be likely that he was ahead of LeMond in the GC before the mountains. I don't remember the details on who attacked but Hinault and Delgado arrived to Pau ahead of the GC contenders during in the first mountain stage. Delgado won the stage and Hinault took yellow jersey.

Hinault (in the yellow jersey) attacked the day after (Tourmalet, Aspin, Peyresourde, SuperBagneres) but cracked in the last climb and LeMond won the stage and got to less than 1 minute behind Hinault in GC.

LeMond took yellow jersey in the first stage in the Alps (Vars, Izoard and Granon) where Hinault lost about 4 minutes. The day after they played they were friends on their way to Alpe d'Huez.

Vino is too far away in GC to compare anything he can do to the Hinault-LeMond affair of 1986.

 

[2wheels]

I laughed outloud!

Yes, but I can see that Limecat is not amused.

 

[sagard]

Vino is hero everywhere, even in the US.

If Jan and Kloden would have made Lance chase Vino down, instead of doing it themselves, they may have won a tour together.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Anyone getting déja vu feelings about the possibility of Vino pulling a Hinault tomorrow? I'm no cycling historian; maybe someone could correct this or add to it, but I'm thinking that in one Tour Hinault basically attacked his own teammate (LeMond, and in yellow!) and forced LeMond to chase him down or else lose the Tour.

If Vino goes with the break tomorrow, could we see something similar?

yes because all the results leading up to today have indeed proven vino is working on his goal to win the tour de france.

 

[oldcrank]

Anyone getting déja vu feelings about the possibility of Vino pulling a Hinault tomorrow? I'm no cycling historian; maybe someone could correct this or add to it, but I'm thinking that in one Tour Hinault basically attacked his own teammate (LeMond, and in yellow!) and forced LeMond to chase him down or else lose the Tour.

If Vino goes with the break tomorrow, could we see something similar?

Lemond wrote the book on betrayal at Goodwood in 1982.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Lemond wrote the book on betrayal at Goodwood in 1982.

And a follow-up at the Tour in '85.