Former BigMat Doctor arrested

[Race Radio]

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2011/20111129_172608_le-medecin-en-garde-a-vue.html

10 riders have testified. Doctor provided EPO and HGH

 

[just some guy]

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2011/20111129_172608_le-medecin-en-garde-a-vue.html

10 riders have testified. Doctor provided EPO and HGH

I have not read the article yet, but 2 things spring to mind.

Pat you have just been shown that you are not winning the war on doping so stop saying you are and the French do use PEDS unlike some romantics were saying when the UCI list came out for rides who showed suspect values.

 

[Topangarider]

Vaughters and BigMat

What's the significance - if any - that Vaughters had almost joined with BigMat?
This would have been terrible for his brand no? Or would it have just been BigMat money and no personnel joining his team?

 

[Benotti69]

I have often wondered why the French seemed to avoid positives. But they weren't winning much so i half thought they doped less as the penalties are severe if caught, but then i wondered was it the ASO doing a deal with the UCI in the hope of more French winners of their events.

 

[hrotha]

I think there's reason to believe the French doping culture is changing for the worse, and that this is a relatively recent development. I seem to remember there were reports about anomalous values in the French peloton going up by 75% this year?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Tommy Voeckler is the only clean rider in the pro peloton.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I have not read the article yet, but 2 things spring to mind.

Pat you have just been shown that you are not winning the war on doping so stop saying you are and the French do use PEDS unlike some romantics were saying when the UCI list came out for rides who showed suspect values.

At present there is still some confusion as to what Dr. Bedoucha's role with BigMat was. They appear to say he stopped with them in 2010, although he is named on their website.

It also has been reported he was only working with 'amateurs - I will update if there is more or better info.

What's the significance - if any - that Vaughters had almost joined with BigMat?
This would have been terrible for his brand no? Or would it have just been BigMat money and no personnel joining his team?

No significance - BigMat were due to be a sponsor, so it would have little if any association with the actual team or setup.

 

[mewmewmew13]

What's the significance - if any - that Vaughters had almost joined with BigMat?
This would have been terrible for his brand no? Or would it have just been BigMat money and no personnel joining his team?

The first thing that sprang to my mind was Vaughter's comment on how sad he was that BigMat was lost.

 

[maltiv]

What's the significance - if any - that Vaughters had almost joined with BigMat?
This would have been terrible for his brand no? Or would it have just been BigMat money and no personnel joining his team?

It wouldn't have been terrible for his brand at all. The doctor would obviously be related to the team, not the sponsor. BigMat as a sponsor has most likely nothing to do with i. The sponsor simply pays money to show its brand.

 

[sniper]

I have not read the article yet, but 2 things spring to mind.

Pat you have just been shown that you are not winning the war on doping so stop saying you are and the French do use PEDS unlike some romantics were saying when the UCI list came out for rides who showed suspect values.

+1

it's astonishing the number of romantics here that still hasn't figured out that you cannot finish top 20 in the TdF without being prepared.

 

[BroDeal]

+1

it's astonishing the number of romantics here that still hasn't figured out that you cannot finish top 20 in the TdF without being prepared.

What do you mean? I have it on good authority (ACF94) that Evans is clean clean clean. So not only can you place in the top 20, you can win it all.

 

[roundabout]

Cue the usual remarks how the riders and other staff know nothing and seen nothing and all the dope was for amateurs etc, etc, etc.

SSDD.

 

[hrotha]

+1

it's astonishing the number of romantics here that still hasn't figured out that you cannot finish top 20 in the TdF without being prepared.

You're not helping advance our understanding of doping with broad and baseless statements like that. Doping is not immutable. New products and methods are introduced, and new tests are implemented. The boost a rider can get while still getting away with is varies along the line. Moncoutié, our dear International Prototype Meter, was 13th in the Tour in a year of relatively low incidence of doping (for the standards of the time).

Just like there are signs that French cycling is getting relatively dirtier, there is evidence suggesting it was relatively clean in the past. Acknowledging this doesn't make you a "romantic" (or a fool, which is more like what you're actually implying), it merely means you don't have preconceived, immutable notions about the state of doping in our sport.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You're not helping advance our understanding of doping with broad and baseless statements like that. Doping is not immutable. New products and methods are introduced, and new tests are implemented. The boost a rider can get while still getting away with is varies along the line. Moncoutié, our dear International Prototype Meter, was 13th in the Tour in a year of relatively low incidence of doping (for the standards of the time).

Just like there are signs that French cycling is getting relatively dirtier, there is evidence suggesting it was relatively clean in the past. Acknowledging this doesn't make you a "romantic" (or a fool, which is more like what you're actually implying), it merely means you don't have preconceived, immutable notions about the state of doping in our sport.

I think that's a fair distinction.
The measures taken in France 10 years ago to curtail doping are no longer as effective - I think a certain amount of complacency has set in, particularly in relation to pro-conti and amateur side of the sport there.

What will be interesting is to see who the clients of Bedoucha are.

 

[Anonymous]

I think that's a fair distinction.
The measures taken in France 10 years ago to curtail doping are no longer as effective - I think a certain amount of complacency has set in, particularly in relation to pro-conti and amateur side of the sport there.

What will be interesting is to see who the clients of Bedoucha are.

Wasn't he linked to Rodolfo Massi (and the Lithuanian lad who I've completely forgot) back in the late 90's?

 

[sniper]

You're not helping advance our understanding of doping with broad and baseless statements like that.

My problem as a poster here is that I know comparatively little about doping.
I'm very much fascinated by it, and pretty much like Noah I simply dislike the idea of cheating in sports in general. But my technical knowledge of both doping and cycling is relatively limited.
I guess my broad Noah-style statements often reflect this.

Just like there are signs that French cycling is getting relatively dirtier, there is evidence suggesting it was relatively clean in the past. Acknowledging this doesn't make you a "romantic" (or a fool, which is more like what you're actually implying), it merely means you don't have preconceived, immutable notions about the state of doping in our sport.

This is why I like your posts.
You are one of the few thinking of doping in relative degrees.
But even when acknowledging that e.g. Voeckler is less dirty than, say, Aldirto, that still doesn't make Voeckler clean. And I don't see how he could finish 5th being truly clean, which is why I still consider the claim that he did it clean to be a romantic claim.

 

[Kender]

But even when acknowledging that e.g. Voeckler is less dirty than, say, Aldirto, that still doesn't make Voeckler clean. And I don't see how he could finish 5th being truly clean, which is why I still consider the claim that he did it clean to be a romantic claim.

then there is the other possibility.. that everyone else was cleaner than in the past so someone like voeckler can perform well. People might dispute him being clean, but noone will dispute his commitment. You can see him fight every day. he never quits. with this attitude and a bit of luck (yet again they let him disappear in a break) he made it 5th. He could ahve finished even higher than that if he hadn't suicided and dropped back with evans instead.

How is that possible? either he doped more than normal or everyone else doped less. Everyone doping less also has the argument that cadel was not buried in the mountains like he has been in the past. noone had massive accelerations and managed to sustain them like in the past which meant the diesel could grind away

 

[sniper]

then there is the other possibility.. that everyone else was cleaner than in the past so someone like voeckler can perform well. People might dispute him being clean, but noone will dispute his commitment. You can see him fight every day. he never quits. with this attitude and a bit of luck (yet again they let him disappear in a break) he made it 5th. He could ahve finished even higher than that if he hadn't suicided and dropped back with evans instead.

How is that possible? either he doped more than normal or everyone else doped less. Everyone doping less also has the argument that cadel was not buried in the mountains like he has been in the past. noone had massive accelerations and managed to sustain them like in the past which meant the diesel could grind away

Or, indeed, Cadel was better prepared this year.
That would explain why his own team (soigneurs, mechanics, teammates) were all so confident about Cadel's chances in this year's TdF, prior to the start.
Prior to the start, as I remember, a couple of guys within his team explicitly stated that Cadel was gonna be a major candidate this year, and a better candidate than in previous years.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Or, indeed, Cadel was better prepared this year.
That would explain why his own team (soigneurs, mechanics, teammates) were all so confident about Cadel's chances in this year's TdF, prior to the start.
Prior to the start, as I remember, a couple of guys within his team explicitly stated that Cadel was gonna be a major candidate this year, and a better candidate than in previous years.

Serious question - how would he be "better prepared"?
Either you believe CE has been doping all along or he is clean. I assume you are not suggesting he just recently had the thoughts to arm up.

Which begs the question - what was different this year.
CE had the luck (which he earned) this year - half the GC contenders were out of contention after the first week and he remained his normal consistent self while everyone else (Schleck, AC) had bad Tours.

 

[Le breton]

I think there's reason to believe the French doping culture is changing for the worse, and that this is a relatively recent development. I seem to remember there were reports about anomalous values in the French peloton going up by 75% this year?

The context of reduced doping in general (as shown by the lower power outputs of top racers in the TdF, Giro, Vuelta) would give more opportunities to shine to racers that do not dope - or dope below the relatively tough French "radar".

But, I have also been wondering whether a new family of products could partly explain the recent marked improvements in French performances in cycling in general at the pro level.

I had not read about the increased anomalous values among French pros, I'll look it up.

 

[hrotha]

My problem as a poster here is that I know comparatively little about doping.
I'm very much fascinated by it, and pretty much like Noah I simply dislike the idea of cheating in sports in general. But my technical knowledge of both doping and cycling is relatively limited.
I guess my broad Noah-style statements often reflect this.



This is why I like your posts.
You are one of the few thinking of doping in relative degrees.
But even when acknowledging that e.g. Voeckler is less dirty than, say, Aldirto, that still doesn't make Voeckler clean. And I don't see how he could finish 5th being truly clean, which is why I still consider the claim that he did it clean to be a romantic claim.

I don't actually believe in Voeckler and Europcar, and I think their performance is one of the sings I was talking about. But I can't rule out the possibility that they are, in fact, clean, and that everyone else is just cleaner now too, remote as I find it.

 

[craig1985]

Or, indeed, Cadel was better prepared this year.
That would explain why his own team (soigneurs, mechanics, teammates) were all so confident about Cadel's chances in this year's TdF, prior to the start.
Prior to the start, as I remember, a couple of guys within his team explicitly stated that Cadel was gonna be a major candidate this year, and a better candidate than in previous years.

Probably because they knew what his training is like every day of the year more than what you or I do? Why suddenly ramp it up now and not the previous years?

 

[biker jk]

What do you mean? I have it on good authority (ACF94) that Evans is clean clean clean. So not only can you place in the top 20, you can win it all.

I'm glad that we can all agree about Cadel being clean.

 

[The Hitch]

What do you mean? I have it on good authority (ACF94) that Evans is clean clean clean. So not only can you place in the top 20, you can win it all.

Forget ACF, the ex Mapei boss said - "Cadel is the cleanest rider of the last decade".

 

[BroDeal]

I'm glad that we can all agree about Cadel being clean.

True. The man on the staff of his current team who was caught importing a boatload of EPO had no intention of giving any to the team's riders. The man on staff of his previous team who was caught importing experimental drugs from Australia also had no intention of giving any to the team's rirders. And his current team's owner, who personally paid for Landis' drug program, decided not to give Evans the same deal; he figured that it was a better bet to count on all the other Tour contenders crashing out of the race or showing up not in form.

Give the doc the benefit of doubt. He probably thought he was hired to dope Big Mig instead of Big Mat. By the time he realized everyone spoke French instead of Spanish, it was too late to stop.