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Fun stuff from Velocipede Salon

I ain't afraid of slandering any athletes when I say that Cadel and Ryder Hesjedal and Roland Green and Seamus McGrath and Chris Sheppard and Steve Larsen(r.i.p.) and (redacted Canadian) and Kirk Molday are among the English speaking pioneers of "vector based doping" in MTB racing.

The Canadians all worked with (redacted) out of BC. Sheppard and McGrath got popped. (redacted) also coached a few female MTB racers in the late '90s who have related directly to me, were offered "additional assistance" and claim to have declined. (Redacted) never openly offered these ladies Orange Juice, just intimated it. That ain't proof, mind you, but 2 of this guys clients getting busted for EPO is. (Redacted) is still heavily involved in coaching(and is good at it) and has worked with world record holding skaters, skiers and runners as well.

Steve Larsen even named his kid after Max Testa.

Cadel's medicine came directly from Ferrari in Italy who "served him orange juice" and assisted in his preparation after he severed his ties to the AIS program.

It was Ferrari and Rominger(who has a real problem with his athletes getting busted) who pressured Cadel into joining the road world full time. Something makes me think that Rominger's own "motoman" helped spirit Amgen's finest across the border into Switzerland

John Howard said to me(and my parents) explicitly, when I was in 7th grade "everyone is dirty and if you want to make it as a pro you have to dope. The choice is yours". I'm really glad I heard that when I was in middle school and was shortly ensconced in the straight-edge hardcore world of Spooky because all of these poor ****ers who are new to the sport because of the Lance Effect and are having their minds blown right now.

Without the support of sponsors and promoters who loved me unconditionally and supported me as an athlete(because I knew how to sell stuff and busted *** to get more people on the start line) even if I didn't win many bike races I was accepted and respected and supported as a marketing machine and "roll model". With great certainty I would have gone to the ends of the earth to juice up if given the chance. Another 20% would have put me on the podium at lots of great races but I realized pretty young I just didn't have a high enough VO2 max to out-climb the same 6 guys every national and none of the kids were on dope yet(because they couldn't afford it!).

I believed that I could make it as a fullish-time athlete without superb mind-blowing results because I was grooming myself to be a Life-Pro like the role models I had from racing MTB's on the East Coast. Eric Lemaire, Chris Brown(ROBBED by Danielson!), Gunnar, John White and Steve Z from Florida, Salem Mazzaway and even for a hot minute, Floyd Landis.

There was time there, for a year or two when I was a role model for kids 3 or 4 years younger than me like JPow and some other starry-eyed New England mtb kids that saw the support and love I got from Spooky where I modeled for, some of them at least, the real face of professionalism, selling **** for the people who give it to you and supporting your scene, helping it grow and stay positive and strong.

Those ideals have died, hard, in MTB racing, and drugs have nothing to do with it except for the fact that Armstrong's backers stuffed $2,000,000 into an insolvent USAC by gunpoint in Y2K and setup USACDF so that they could run American Cycling by fiat, axing the line item that provided funding and promotional support to the NORBA National MTB Series(and the Norba board of directors while they were at it), effectively killing US mtb racing. And hey! look! all of a sudden all of those sponsorship dollars are getting allocated to road racing. Wheee!


http://www.velocipedesalon.com/foru...cyclingnews-com-forum-28860-6.html#post429975
 
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This is strange. It reads like it is copied from somewhere, perhaps someone's interview or testimony. But it is in a thread on Velocipede Salon entitled "Vaughters' comments on the Cyclingnews.com forum". I don't find these comments here. And the whole bit is unattributed on Velocipede. It doesn't say who, it doesn't say when or where.
 
the big ring said:
What's with all the (redacted) BS? :confused:

I am not familiar with the MTB scene at that time, but I bet it is trivial to figure out who the Canadian coach is.

hiero2 said:
This is strange. It reads like it is copied from somewhere, perhaps someone's interview or testimony. But it is in a thread on Velocipede Salon entitled "Vaughters' comments on the Cyclingnews.com forum". I don't find these comments here. And the whole bit is unattributed on Velocipede. It doesn't say who, it doesn't say when or where.

It reads like he has taken something he wrote before and taken a couple of names out.

The JV comments are definitely from here.
 

the big ring

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hiero2 said:
This is strange. It reads like it is copied from somewhere, perhaps someone's interview or testimony. But it is in a thread on Velocipede Salon entitled "Vaughters' comments on the Cyclingnews.com forum". I don't find these comments here. And the whole bit is unattributed on Velocipede. It doesn't say who, it doesn't say when or where.

It's written by Mickey of Spooky bikes.

http://www.spookybikes.com/about/faq
Are you guys the same Spooky from back in the day?

-Kinda. I (Mickey) was a shop grom and team racer from 1995 until Spooky 1.0 had to close up shop in 2000 after years of debt, exploitation and general chaos caught up with us.

Boggle. :eek:

http://www.livestrong.com/video/846-road-bike-tire-life/

About this Author

Mickey Denoncourt received a degree in applied physiology from Hampshire College in Amherst, Massachusetts. He is the owner of a bike store called Spooky Bikes.Mickey is a Category 3 road racer and a Semi-professional DH mountain bike racer. He is also an avid BMX bike racer.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/video/846-road-bike-tire-life/#ixzz25vZULSIL

Is it just me or does this smell really, really bad?

I see it is also published on eHow - but we already know they are owned by Demand media (says so at the bottom of the page too).

http://www.ehow.com/video_2361588_understand-average-lifespan-road-bike.html
 
the big ring said:
Boggle. :eek:

http://www.livestrong.com/video/846-road-bike-tire-life/

Is it just me or does this smell really, really bad?

I see it is also published on eHow - but we already know they are owned by Demand media (says so at the bottom of the page too).

http://www.ehow.com/video_2361588_understand-average-lifespan-road-bike.html

The Livestrong and eHow stuff is driven by search terms. If enough people google for "sexual arrousal bicycle seat sniffing"--and it does not take many since Demand targets long tail search phrases--then Demand's systems will enter the term into their list of articles to be written. Some schlub will accept the assignment, craft an article from material that is googled, and get paid $15 for it.
 

the big ring

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BroDeal said:
The Livestrong and eHow stuff is driven by search terms. If enough people google for "sexual arrousal bicycle seat sniffing"--and it does not take many since Demand targets long tail search phrases--then Demand's systems will enter the term into their list of articles to be written. Some schlub will accept the assignment, craft an article from material that is googled, and get paid $15 for it.

Are you saying Mickey was paid to write articles for Demand Media?

Then some time later, when Lance is going down, writes something to tar a bunch of MTBers.

Doesn't seem suspicious at all.
 
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BroDeal said:
I ain't afraid of slandering any athletes when I say that Cadel and Ryder Hesjedal and Roland Green and Seamus McGrath and Chris Sheppard and Steve Larsen(r.i.p.) and (redacted Canadian) and Kirk Molday are among the English speaking pioneers of "vector based doping" in MTB racing.

The Canadians all worked with (redacted) out of BC. Sheppard and McGrath got popped. (redacted) also coached a few female MTB racers in the late '90s who have related directly to me, were offered "additional assistance" and claim to have declined. (Redacted) never openly offered these ladies Orange Juice, just intimated it. That ain't proof, mind you, but 2 of this guys clients getting busted for EPO is. (Redacted) is still heavily involved in coaching(and is good at it) and has worked with world record holding skaters, skiers and runners as well.

.......


http://www.velocipedesalon.com/foru...cyclingnews-com-forum-28860-6.html#post429975

Riding with a now retired pro who was with what is now Spidertech, I remember him telling me that Ryder, after Phonak dissolved, contacted the Canadian conti-pro team so for a ride: consensus amongst management and exisiting riders was that Ryder had a bit too much of a 'glow' about him to be a safe investment for a fledgling team....just as an FYI...
 
the big ring said:
Are you saying Mickey was paid to write articles for Demand Media?

No, anyone can write the Demand stuff. If you want to make $10 to $20 per article then you could do it too. They have a big queue of what needs to be written. The queue is driven by search terms. Their writers pull topics out of the queue, do some half asssed research, and write an article. To make money, the writers try to crank out two or three articles an hour. The content is demand driven.
 
Sheesh. Canadians don't dope. Right Ben? Ok, not before and not since.

Especially not cyclists. Ok, only female cyclists from Quebec with US Cycling licenses dope. Right Genvieve? No other cyclist was ever close to her in any race in Canada, right?

Ok, maybe she was dogging it to let them catch up.

The only other doping cyclist in Canada was Kirk O'Bee, and he was another one of those cyclists from there with a license from here.

Well, aside from born here, licensed there folks, if a Canadian cyclist did try it, they would get busted their very first time, right after they got a mail order sample. Right Shep?

That is the sure sign of a doping Canadian cyclist. It is guaranteed that they would get caught as soon as they opened the package.

Heck, even Rolly told us that it was only the small guys that get busted.

You agree with that, don't you Tyler? Floyd are you around here anywhere? Anyone want to ask Lance about that?

Odd that this silliness would put both Rolly and Shep into the same sentence. What is with that? C'mon, Rolly stood up for little guy Shep.

And what do they mean that there was the same coach involved? Rolly was his own coach. There, take that!

See, they don't even have coaches in Canada, because Canadians are all too poor to afford them. When someone says you are pedalling squares, everyone gets off their bikes and starts playing hopscotch.

Remember, Canada is the land of hockey and it is really hard to ride a bike with skates on.

Ok, fine then. No Canadian cyclist from Vancouver Island would ever dope. So there!

Vancouver Island is a quaint little place best known for retirement communities, hippies and dairy farms. It is so quaint that even the hippies don't do dope. Right (BC) Bud?

Ok, ok, there was some Vancouver Island rowing gal who was busted for sudafed, but it is legal now - so that was just a mistake by the even Anti Doping clowns who must have been on an early witch hunt. And that wasn't even cycling.

All that stuff about too much glow. Simply jealousy is all. Simple jealousy.

Besides, you cannot take that stuff from a Canadian cycling team seriously.

Canadian guys wouldn't even know what a doper looked like since they don't have any dopers in Canada.

This guy can't be serious at all.

Dave.
 
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As a former MTB racer still living in W. Canada this news would bother be , except I've learned from this forum that only Lance Armstrong and cyclists from Spain dope. I can proudly say that Ryder's Giro win remains as untainted as Bradley's Tour win. :eek::D;):rolleyes:(mixed emotions here...)
 
I've been a fan of Ryder since he looked SO much faster than EPO'd up Meirhaeghe at MTB Worlds, and just faceplanted his way down the hills with his tiny bike and just-like-me body style.
However, since, I've also learned that clean riders are race, and extrapolated that a clean Ryder was probably unlikely. And then he won the Giro.
I hate being disappointed.
Between "cycling has cleaned up enough for a clean rider to win" and "this guy is taking his doping more seriously and now he wins", I think the former would be a premature conclusion.
 
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D-Queued said:
Sheesh. Canadians don't dope. Right Ben? Ok, not before and not since.

Especially not cyclists.....

Ha, ha!

The national mindset or self concept in Canada is something like believing they're God's gift to mankind. True believers. Seriously, albeit just drop the "God" bit. Shining light on a hill to the rest of the world. I'm not joking :p

See the newspapers, editorials. Need a national statement of dope, B.C.-bud, weed-free humility, etc. Good look in the mirror, that kind of thing....

(Nb: Canadian citizen and one other).
 
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Parrot23 said:
Ha, ha!

The national mindset or self concept in Canada is something like believing they're God's gift to mankind. True believers. Seriously, albeit just drop the "God" bit. Shining light on a hill to the rest of the world. I'm not joking :p

Try to include intelligence in your next post.
 
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Roadent said:
Riding with a now retired pro who was with what is now Spidertech, I remember him telling me that Ryder, after Phonak dissolved, contacted the Canadian conti-pro team so for a ride: consensus amongst management and exisiting riders was that Ryder had a bit too much of a 'glow' about him to be a safe investment for a fledgling team....just as an FYI...

Moose McKnuckles said:
LOL @ people who think Evans and Hesjedal won paniagua.

silverrocket said:
As a former MTB racer still living in W. Canada . . . I can proudly say that Ryder's Giro win remains as untainted as Bradley's Tour win. :eek::D;):rolleyes:(mixed emotions here...)

Cloxxki said:
I've been a fan of Ryder since he looked SO much faster than EPO'd up Meirhaeghe at MTB Worlds, and just faceplanted his way down the hills with his tiny bike and just-like-me body style.
However, since, I've also learned that clean riders are race, and extrapolated that a clean Ryder was probably unlikely. And then he won the Giro.
I hate being disappointed.
Between "cycling has cleaned up enough for a clean rider to win" and "this guy is taking his doping more seriously and now he wins", I think the former would be a premature conclusion.

Just a couple of thots last night. First, it is nice that we have a source to go with the original words. Thanks all.

2nd - this IS hearsay. It is gossip. You will remember that we have condemned the apologists for characterizing several testimonies re LA and USPS dopage, for calling the testimony "hearsay". Because that wasn't hearsay - it was first person testimony: a communication of events by someone who personally witnessed those events. It wasn't "he said they. . ." or "so-and-so told me" . . ..

Mickey's comments, tho, in my mind still carry some weight, as does Steve Tilford's story about Tom Danielson. Why? Because they are a part of the group, and therefore what they believe takes on a certain level of "expert opinion". Not entirely, as "expert opinion" should have some basis in provable evidence. Sometimes groups of people can believe some very stupid things. At the same time, listening to rumors can tell us when something is going on behind closed doors.

We are gossiping here. Sometimes our gossip here is a good thing - we KNOW at least one of the recent "outing" conversations is the result of our conversations and questions on this forum.

But, I also think we need to remember that what Mickey says about Evans and other riders IS just gossip and hearsay. So I still think Evans won clean in 2011. Mickey saying somebody doped does not mean it was true. We have validation elsewhere that Ryder and several of these others did at some point in their career use WADA illegal doping methods. Not proof, but validation. That does not mean they are still doing this, or that they can not win without such methods.

Ditto most of the Garmin team. Again, even if it WAS true, it does not mean that it continues to be true. In the case of LA, we think he was the best of the best frauds, yet we had a continuing stream of questionable tests and stories. For most of the current peloton - I'm not seeing so much. So, unlike Cloxxki, I find his "former" statement to be the more likely. I think that it IS possible to ride clean today, and I think many of these riders are doing so. It seems to me that the evidence we have indicates that - the engineers like BusyBeehive, and that French guy who posts the power estimates. The bio passport, all that. Sure, and I'm just as suspicious as most of you that some of these guys are still finding ways to game the system - but their gains have gotten so small, that clean riders have a shot. At least, that is my opinion.

I am glad to see so many statements finally coming out - and now we are getting statements like Mickey's, Tilford's, and Gregg Germer - from the peloton that stayed clean.

It is also interesting to read Mickey's comment about John Howard. I wonder if Howard has spoken up yet? I wonder if Howard would confirm that he said this to Mickey?

And, one more thought - with what came out today about the UCI looking to pursue Danielson and the rest of the guys JV talked about, I think we can see why other riders in the current peloton may be unlikely to speak up. Why say anything if it's gonna get you in hot water?
 
Parrot23 said:
Ha, ha!

The national mindset or self concept in Canada is something like believing they're God's gift to mankind. True believers. Seriously, albeit just drop the "God" bit. Shining light on a hill to the rest of the world. I'm not joking :p

See the newspapers, editorials. Need a national statement of dope, B.C.-bud, weed-free humility, etc. Good look in the mirror, that kind of thing....

(Nb: Canadian citizen and one other).

Thanks much for the appreciation, but as a Canadian you should recognize that we excel in self-effacing humor and do not consider ourselves God's gift to mankind. Or, perhaps your post is satire as well.

Heck, we aren't god like. We can't even see Russia from our house.

And, when it comes to the National consciousness, please recall that (all of) Canada was humiliated by Ben.

icebreaker said:
WTF?

Not sure what you two are on, but really??

What am I on? I'm on my bike busting my *** six hours a day. What are you on? :p

hiero2 said:
...

2nd - this IS hearsay. It is gossip. ...

Maybe you could read between the lines in my satire above. This isn't all make believe. And some of us may have closer exposure and experience than the 'source'.

Also, in terms of further hard evidence, please note that Shep was busted for EPO, and provided the excuse that he had just received his very first EPO mail order the day before. Roland really did come out with a public statement to try and excuse the violation.

Dave.
 
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D-Queued said:
. . .
Heck, we aren't god like. We can't even see Russia from our house.
. . .
Maybe you could read between the lines in my satire above. This isn't all make believe. And some of us may have closer exposure and experience than the 'source'.

Also, in terms of further hard evidence, please note that Shep was busted for EPO, and provided the excuse that he had just received his very first EPO mail order the day before. Roland really did come out with a public statement to try and excuse the violation.

Dave.
Man, sometimes you are FUNNY! :D I'm saying that seriously. You're making me laugh, like the comment about Russia above!

Yeah, I know it is not all make believe. Where there is smoke there is a fire, right? At least, MOST times. Sometimes not, and you can't always be sure of the SIZE of the fire, either. That's what I was trying to point out.

In this case, I'm glad to see the comments and discussion. I think there is a fire somewhere. I don't think we really have much idea about the fire, in spite of the anecdotal tales. I think the anecdotes tend to confirm the more detailed stories we get though. After all three blind men have spoken, you have a better idea of what an elephant might look like, neh?
 
BroDeal said:
...John Howard said to me(and my parents) explicitly, when I was in 7th grade "everyone is dirty and if you want to make it as a pro you have to dope. The choice is yours". I'm really glad I heard that when I was in middle school and was shortly ensconced in the straight-edge hardcore world of Spooky because all of these poor ****ers who are new to the sport because of the Lance Effect and are having their minds blown right now.

Which John Howard is this? The first person that I recognize is the now older dude in San Diego with a long, long history in elite pre-EPO pre-Internet bike racing.

BroDeal said:
There was time there, for a year or two when I was a role model for kids 3 or 4 years younger than me like JPow and some other starry-eyed New England mtb kids that saw the support and love I got from Spooky where I modeled for, some of them at least, the real face of professionalism, selling **** for the people who give it to you and supporting your scene, helping it grow and stay positive and strong.

This is the antithesis of the USACDF/UCI model. IMHO it is exactly the model that is needed to grow the sport economically.

You guys should recognize that all off-road funding got funneled into road for two reasons:

1. UCI's road racing is the source of most revenue for the UCI.
2. Weisel is still searching for the next doper to build another myth around and uses any money the federation collects to meet that goal.

I visit another mountain bike specific forum with some elites posting where they swear up and down there is no doping to the point of making stuff up. I knew that was a red flag, but this information puts some of it in better perspective.
 
hiero2 said:
Man, sometimes you are FUNNY! :D I'm saying that seriously. You're making me laugh, like the comment about Russia above!

Yeah, I know it is not all make believe. Where there is smoke there is a fire, right? At least, MOST times. Sometimes not, and you can't always be sure of the SIZE of the fire, either. That's what I was trying to point out.

In this case, I'm glad to see the comments and discussion. I think there is a fire somewhere. I don't think we really have much idea about the fire, in spite of the anecdotal tales. I think the anecdotes tend to confirm the more detailed stories we get though. After all three blind men have spoken, you have a better idea of what an elephant might look like, neh?

Thanks.

Yes, we do have really big forest fires in Canada.

Interesting concept and analogy...

...then again the Canadian Cycling Association recently assured us that there is no doping in Canada: "the positives for young athletes is that the sport is getting cleaned up"

Or, at least that the only doping is somehow miraculously confined to Peruvian cyclists at the Quebec Road Race championships or the U23 Nationals. You know, children, Quebecois and foreigners.

Certainly nothing mainstream in that.

Fortunate because we wouldn't want younger riders to start doping - especially after we just gave them our assurances that the sport is getting cleaned up and that "even if you're powerful and a hero, you're not above (the sport getting cleaned up)."

Funny how that hasn't increased my confidence.

But, maybe that was the message from Velocipede that was included in the opening post. Our heroes are clean. Amending Rolly's comment on Shep, '(In Canada at least) we only go after the small guys.'

Dave.