Garmin Cervelo Roster omission

[joe_papp]

Wow, I'm wondering where Kirk Carlsen's name is w/ respect to the Garmin roster. He had a two-year deal w/ the ProTour team for 2010 and 2011 and while he got sick last season, that wouldn't have been grounds for cancelling a valid contract.

 

[roundabout]

He will ride for the Continental team

 

[joe_papp]

He will ride for the Continental team

Why? You can't demote someone w/ a valid 2-year contract to a completely different business and sporting entity. Not even the UCI would stand for that.

 

[theyoungest]

Why? You can't demote someone w/ a valid 2-year contract to a completely different business and sporting entity. Not even the UCI would stand for that.

Mutual consent?

 

[ingsve]

Why? You can't demote someone w/ a valid 2-year contract to a completely different business and sporting entity. Not even the UCI would stand for that.

Well, they had to get rid of several riders to make room for all the new ones and several buy outs or mutuallt agreed upon partings took place I believe so it was probably a situation of riding for the conti team or finding a new employer altogether.

 

[joe_papp]

Well, they had to get rid of several riders to make room for all the new ones and several buy outs or mutuallt agreed upon partings took place I believe so it was probably a situation of riding for the conti team or finding a new employer altogether.

But that's my point. You can't force someone to take a buy-out, nor can you force them to accept demotion to a different team, if they have a valid contract.

 

[theyoungest]

But that's my point. You can't force someone to take a buy-out, nor can you force them to accept demotion to a different team, if they have a valid contract.

Maybe they didn't force him? Maybe Carlsen realized he wasn't good enough for WorldTour level (yet)?

 

[ingsve]

But that's my point. You can't force someone to take a buy-out, nor can you force them to accept demotion to a different team, if they have a valid contract.

Well, you can always fire someone. If you don't want them working for you then no one can force you to employ their services. In the case where there is a contract there will of course be consequences for breaking the contract but as long as you are willing to take those consequences then there is nothing to stop them is there? In the end I guess it comes down to how much either side is willing to fight it out in courts so more often then not it is settled internally with a buy out of some sort.

 

[Angliru]

Why? You can't demote someone w/ a valid 2-year contract to a completely different business and sporting entity. Not even the UCI would stand for that.

Ball did it to several of his riders a couple of years ago, demoting them to amateur status if I'm not mistaken, in a cost cutting move.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

But that's my point. You can't force someone to take a buy-out, nor can you force them to accept demotion to a different team, if they have a valid contract.

Of course you can force them. It might not be nice business, but you can easily hint at something like not getting to see a race except on tv. Happens with soccer all the time (both the putting on the bench and demoting to second team).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Of course you can force them. It might not be nice business, but you can easily hint at something like not getting to see a race except on tv. Happens with soccer all the time (both the putting on the bench and demoting to second team).

But the thing is, that's still the same employer. Demoting a rider to the Continental team is officially going to a completely separate employer even if in practice it's just like being sent to the reserves. Orbea is officially totally separate from Euskaltel, Rabobank Continental is officially nothing to do with Rabobank ProTour.

What they may do, however, is have some kind of inactive status list, which allows them to pick up another rider (hence have more people than 30 on the roster but only have 30 active at any one time) then "loan" Carlsen out, to ride as a 'guest' for the Continental team, all season. I don't know if that's possible in cycling, but it happens in football.

 

[joe_papp]

Of course you can force them. It might not be nice business, but you can easily hint at something like not getting to see a race except on tv. Happens with soccer all the time (both the putting on the bench and demoting to second team).

OK, let me rephrase: you can't abrogate their contract and need the rider's consent to nullify a valid contract whose terms haven't been breached by the athlete.

 

[cyclingPRpro]

You're right Joe... But if the rider and organization both agree to the move, why do you care? There were several riders left out because of the merger, at least he still has a saddle and a salary. And Slipstream Sports is Slipstream Sports... all the same organization. In this case.

 

[joe_papp]

You're right Joe... But if the rider and organization both agree to the move, why do you care? There were several riders left out because of the merger, at least he still has a saddle and a salary. And Slipstream Sports is Slipstream Sports... all the same organization. In this case.

Well, I know the answer but I was hoping that at least a few other people would be interested and would start asking questions [not of me, but of the people who should be reporting on this] if they thought the matter merited further inquiry. Because, and really think about your answer, if you had a rock-solid two year contract with a ProTour team and a shot that you'd probably not get again if you were demoted (based on anecdotal evidence of under-performing or sick/injured first-year riders), and you knew the value of your contract was in the range of the UCI minimum, why would you agree to give up everything you'd worked so hard for to return to a level at which you'd already progressed through, when (again), anecdotal evidence doesn't support the likelihood of getting "called-up" again to "the show"?

(Regardless of who channels the money into their operating budgets, being on the Continental team is not the same as being on the ProTour team, Slipstream Sports-check-signing be damned.)