Garmin vs HTC's young talent

[Eric8-A]

I'm sure it's clear that HTC is probably the best team that knows how to spot great young talent and they've shown that with Teejay, Tony Martin, Ciolek, Cavendish etc.

Garmin is also another team that looks out for young talent, signing Ramunas and Talansky for this season. Garmin sometimes seem to give their young guys so much hype and they usually don't deliver in my opinion. The only one would be Cam Meyer who won the TDU this year. And Dan Martin as well.
For this year's Paris-Nice, I was looking to see who would place higher on GC: Talansky or Teejay. Teejay is a bit over a minute back if I'm not mistaken, while Andrew is over 20. Don't get me wrong, Andrew did do good at Mediteraneen.

What's your take on this?

 

[Ferminal]

25 or Under:

Bobridge
Kreder
Martin
Meyer
Meyer
Navardauskas
Peterson
Stetina
Talansky
Vanmarcke

vs

Brammeier
Cavendish
Degenkolb
Fairly
Ghyselinck
Goss
Gretsch
Howard
Martin
Smukulis
Van Garderen

Martin, Cav and Brammeier all turning 26 soon though.

Pretty tight, HTC obviously if you count Cav and Martin. Still, Goss and Martin alone have better records than the other team combined.

They both more or less have an equally amount of potentially good U24s, bit hard to judge them at this stage and say any one of them will be better than the other.

 

[Eric8-A]

I guess the riders you mentioned count given that I'm talking about when the teams signed them young and have groomed them to the riders they are now.

 

[joy118118]

The two teams seem to have different nurture ways. I mean, riders in Garmin are brought up solid and look like to be growing up more slowly than HTC.

Early last year I thought Stetina was equal to TVG. Both were riders for stage races. And Stetina had a great VO2 max. After a year, TVG begins to contend in small stage races but what Stetina's programme is I have no idea about it.

Cavendish shows his talents at the very beginning when he turned pro. Tony Martin (Oh, both teams have a Martin) is not that glorious in his first year as a neo-pro (good TT and win in Hel van het Mergelland) but now he is better and better. Different grow-up ways

And HTC always is able to get the best talents in U23. Ciolek, Boasson Hagen, and now Degenkolb. Awesome!(And two policemen!)

 

[Eric8-A]

I sometimes think that Garmin just randomly picks out young riders or gets the leftovers after everybody has picked the good ones. Michel Kreder and Teejay were both riding for the Continental Rabobank team, why didn't Garmin try to get Teejay.

I was completely blown away by Teejay last year starting at the Dauphine and then on to the Vuelta. None of Garmin's young guys have ever shown that type of sportmanship.

Stetina, I don't know what the deal with him's going to be. Each time Garmin sends one of their young guns to a race, I always expect good things from them but end up dissapointed. A good example from Talansky at Paris-Nice yesterday. I find it funny how Garmin is the team I root for the most and I bag on them way too much. Even JV said Talasnky was going to surprise at this race in a tweet, too bad that ain't gonna happen.

And very true about HTC's talent that they're able to get their hands on. I mean look at them, all their young sprinters are able to outsprint Farrar and he's regarded as the second best spritner by some.

 

[theyoungest]

HTC certainly seems the better team for progressing as a young rider. Garmin doesn't even come close, I can only think of Farrar and possibly Dan Martin who have really surprised me with their progress.

As for Kreder vs. Van Garderen: they're totally different riders, so the comparison is a bit unfair. Both of them have shown flashes of brilliance at their respective specialties: uphill sprints for Kreder, GC riding for Van Garderen. Kreder has failed to make an impression after March last year, that's true.

 

[Nearly]

Bobridge can/will be the best of the lot (not counting Cav who is just about out of that bracket)

 

[Lanark]

HTC's succes with young riders isn't that surprising. Guys like Boasson Hagen, Martin and Van Garderen were huge talents. I don't follow u23 cycling that much, but I certainly knew who those guys were. But it's not like everything they touch turns to gold. Guldhammer and Ghyselinck were big talents as well, the first one has quit proffesional cycling for now, the second one hasn't shown much.

The question is why do all those big talents (that even your average fan could spot from a mile away) go to HTC? A couple of years ago I heard they pay much bigger salaries for young riders, does anyone know if there is any veracity to that rumor? It could be that they just have a good reputation in the peloton, if I was a talented u23 rider, I would probably try to get into HTC as well.

 

[joy118118]

Bobridge can/will be the best of the lot (not counting Cav who is just about out of that bracket)

why so many people rank Bobridge high? do i miss something?

I know he was U23 TT 1st. But after he turned pro, the best result he got in a TT is 2nd in National Championships Australia. And a stage win in Eneco Tour.

How could he be discribed as the best of the lot except Cav?

Edit:Sorry I forget the win in RR National Championships Australia

 

[SoLogy]

why so many people rank Bobridge high? do i miss something?

I think his breaking Boardman's record which was thought to be unbreakable has some people thinking that he may have some skills.

 

[Ferminal]

why so many people rank Bobridge high? do i miss something?

I know he was U23 TT 1st. But after he turned pro, the best result he got in a TT is 2nd in National Championships Australia. And a stage win in Eneco Tour.

How could he be discribed as the best of the lot except Cav?

Edit:Sorry I forget the win in RR National Championships Australia

He had a very good 2009, winning lots of other races alongside gold in Mendrisio.

2010 he gets a very impressive stage win in a Pro Tour race.

Jan 2011 Australian RR wins solo from an all day break being chased by the likes of Gerrans and Goss.

Can't really fault the progression, there aren't many new pros (beyond the sprinters) who go out and take wins against the best consistently, so there's nothing wrong with two wins in 12 months. Especially for someone who juggles full track commitments who can't really pick and choose what races they enter.

But like I said earlier, it's a bit silly to just assume someone will be amazing. Look at the winners of the major U23 events over the past, not all of them go on to be superstars. Bobridge might be able to pull off a good win from a break but that's a long way from being a top classics rider.

 

[Ildabaoth]

I know it is easy to compare HTC and Garmin considering they are both American and the rivalry between them. But I don't care too much about it, because of the huge difference in budget. Nobody compares the potential quality of AG2R and Liquigas, for example. HTC is one of the best teams in the world, but its budget is accordingly huge too, while Garmin's one is not close by far.

 

[joy118118]

I know it is easy to compare HTC and Garmin considering they are both American and the rivalry between them. But I don't care too much about it, because of the huge difference in budget. Nobody compares the potential quality of AG2R and Liquigas, for example. HTC is one of the best teams in the world, but its budget is accordingly huge too, while Garmin's one is not close by far.

Liquigas' neo-pros all have the salaries of the bottom line. But their potential is better than most teams. I personally dont agree with budget decides the quality.

 

[nevada]

Lachlan Morton.

 

[luckyboy]

Looking forward to see how Vanmarcke will progress. Guess he'll be a bit drowned out this April what with all the new arrivals.

 

[theyoungest]

I think his breaking Boardman's record which was thought to be unbreakable has some people thinking that he may have some skills.

On the same day and the same track, Rohan Dennis nearly broke that record. It must have had something to do with the circumstances, don't you think?

Sure he's talented, but the best of all Garmin/HTC talents? I'm not that convinced yet.

 

[kurtinsc]

Well, after not showing up in the climbing stage yesterday, Talansky had a heck of an ITT today. 7th place, ahead of guys like Leipheimer, LuLu, TVG, Vino, Brajkovic and Sammy Sanchez.

HTC still has the edge, but it's a positive mark in the Garmin column.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'm sure it's clear that HTC is probably the best team that knows how to spot great young talent and they've shown that with Teejay, Tony Martin, Ciolek, Cavendish etc.

Liquigas in the last handful of years:

Oss
Sagan
Nibali
Kiserlovski
Kreuziger
Viviani
Caruso
Koren
Cataldo
Guarnieri
Santaromita
Capecchi
Gasparotto

So no, it isn't clear that HTC are the best at spotting young talent. One of the best, for sure, but the best? That's more than debatable.

 

[Eric8-A]

Liquigas in the last handful of years:

Oss
Sagan
Nibali
Kiserlovski
Kreuziger
Viviani
Caruso
Koren
Cataldo
Guarnieri
Santaromita
Capecchi
Gasparotto

So no, it isn't clear that HTC are the best at spotting young talent. One of the best, for sure, but the best? That's more than debatable.

Liquigas is also great at getting young riders. But the reason I only mentioned Garmin and HTC is because of the rivalry between the two teams.

 

[janraaskalt]

So no, it isn't clear that HTC are the best at spotting young talent.

Spotting talent is relatively easy. Cavendish, Tony Martin, Goss, who didn't see that coming? What HTC is great at is signing those talents (and also developing them).

 

[Eric8-A]

Spotting talent is relatively easy. Cavendish, Tony Martin, Goss, who didn't see that coming? What HTC is great at is signing those talents (and also developing them).

If it's that easy, Garmin really don't see to get the hang of it.

 

[theyoungest]

If it's that easy, Garmin really don't see to get the hang of it.

I remember Rabo saying something like "we can't offer them those wages" when HTC signed Tejay from Rabo Continental. So maybe it's just down to money.

HTC is known as this great team for developing young talent, but what they don't have is a development team, so maybe they need the big bucks to attract riders to them.

 

[md2020]

Not sure how you miss including Rabobank in this discussion but I guess there are a few different discussions to be had regarding young talent. Does HTC have a U23 team to discover and develop young talent or do they just poach successful U23's after someone else has done all the hard work?

 

[janraaskalt]

If it's that easy, Garmin really don't see to get the hang of it.

The Garmin talents are younger than the HTC ones previously mentioned. Let's see in 2 years time. Besides, Garmin has a different philosophy and trying to develop US talents, of which there are not many.

What was the team Bradley Wiggins rode for the year he was 4th in the Tour de France? What team the year before that?

 

[janraaskalt]

HTC is known as this great team for developing young talent, but what they don't have is a development team, so maybe they need the big bucks to attract riders to them.

They do have links to Thueringen Energy Team, don't they? Degenkolb, Gretsch, Martin, maybe I forgot some.