Giro - Vuelta Double

[Vonn Brinkman]

Seeing that Nibali is ahead again after the ITT, and that he has a great chance of actually winning / podium placing in the Vuelta, I was wondering, why does everyone try the Giro - Tour double, or the Tour - Vuelta, instead of the Giro - Vuelta?
I understand that the Tour is very prestigious, and that many riders want to perform well in the Tour for personal fame and for their sponsors, but as Nibali is showing, it is far more efficient and lucrative to do the Giro and the Vuelta in one season. Contador did it with a lot of success in 2008. And now Nibali will have at least two podium placings at GT's this season, and perhaps more.
If I was a rider, I would either do the Tour or both Giro and Vuelta. What do you guys think?

 

[luckyboy]

Yeah, it does seem the best thing to do. Menchov (Tour, Vuelta) & Basso (Giro, Tour) proved this year that you can do well at one (podium/win), but it seems that the second is too close after.

A bit off-topic, but Sastre has done a great job - looking like top 20 in every GT this year. Wonder what could've happened if he didn't ride the Tour..

 

[Vonn Brinkman]

A bit off-topic, but Sastre has done a great job - looking like top 20 in every GT this year. Wonder what could've happened if he didn't ride the Tour..

Good point. Sastre is still a serious GT contender, sadly he chose to focus on the Tour this year, while his Giro turned sour. If he had skipped the Giro, he would now have been the top 5 of the Vuelta, for sure.

 

[The Hitch]

Yeah, it does seem the best thing to do. Menchov (Tour, Vuelta) & Basso (Giro, Tour) proved this year that you can do well at one (podium/win), but it seems that the second is too close after.

A bit off-topic, but Sastre has done a great job - looking like top 20 in every GT this year. Wonder what could've happened if he didn't ride the Tour..

Menchov may havestruggled with Tour Vuelta but others havent. The people that come top 10 in a gc are wasting as much energy as the people who win it. Seeing as you have to do all the same mountains, and are only really losing a minute and 2 here and there over a period of 120 hours.

People nike Nicholas Roche and Purito this year did very well in the Tour, and are doing very well here.
Sastre won tour and podiumed Vuelta in 08.

Menchov, Basso might struglle with it, but that doesnt make it the rule.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Some riders can sustain a high level all season long, some can't

For example Andy Schleck is notorious for sucking in nearly all preparation races and then being extremely good in the race he actually peaked for.
While for instance Rodriguez is good everwhere.

 

[luckyboy]

Menchov may havestruggled with Tour Vuelta but others havent. The people that come top 10 in a gc are wasting as much energy as the people who win it. Seeing as you have to do all the same mountains, and are only really losing a minute and 2 here and there over a period of 120 hours.

People nike Nicholas Roche and Purito this year did very well in the Tour, and are doing very well here.
Sastre won tour and podiumed Vuelta in 08.

Menchov, Basso might struglle with it, but that doesnt make it the rule.

Fair enough - people can do well at both, but I was talking more in terms of being right up there (top 3/challenging for the win) in both. I mean, J-Rod was nearly 12 minutes down in the TdF, Roche was 17 minutes down.

Good point. Sastre is still a serious GT contender, sadly he chose to focus on the Tour this year, while his Giro turned sour. If he had skipped the Giro, he would now have been the top 5 of the Vuelta, for sure.

Yeah, I reckon he'd be challenging for the win. Great TT from him today.

 

[The Hitch]

Fair enough - people can do well at both, but I was talking more in terms of being right up there (top 3/challenging for the win) in both. I mean, J-Rod was nearly 12 minutes down in the TdF, Roche was 17 minutes down.

I think they wasted pretty much similar energy levels. Roche is not as good as Contador but he would have still been climbing in the red. Even more so J Rod.

But Sastre won the Tour in 2008 and then came 3rd just a few minutes down on Contador.
3rd and 4th, 2006. 4th and 2nd 2007. SO right up there every time

 

[The Hitch]

The problem with saying "Sastre would be up there" this year is that he sucked at the Giro as well. He had a long rest leading up to it, and was expected to win but underperformed there as well.

 

[Vonn Brinkman]

I think they wasted pretty much similar energy levels. Roche is not as good as Contador but he would have still been climbing in the red. Even more so J Rod.

But Sastre won the Tour in 2008 and then came 3rd just a few minutes down on Contador.
3rd and 4th, 2006. 4th and 2nd 2007. SO right up there every time

You seem to be very right. Sastre does have some very impressive results on the basis of double GT's. What I am thinking though, if Sastre did the Giro - Vuelta, I think he could actually win one, and podium on the other, instead of podiuming on the Tour and Vuelta or finishing high up.
But Sastre is a man apart, I believe. Great die-hard rider.

 

[icefire]

Big boys will always go to the Tour because of the combination of prestige + media exposure + sponsor pressure. They only do the Giro and Vuelta now in unusual circumstances such as Contador 2008 with Astana banned in the Tour, Basso 2009 after his comeback (don't recall exactly why he didn't go to the Tour) or Nibali forced to change his plans after Pellizotti was banned.

Hopefully, we might see someone else doing it next year: the carrots will send Igor Antón to the Giro and Samu to the Tour.

 

[ingsve]

The problem with saying "Sastre would be up there" this year is that he sucked at the Giro as well. He had a long rest leading up to it, and was expected to win but underperformed there as well.

Sastre fell and hurt his back on one of the early stages in hte giro (gravel stage) and that hindered his performance in the Giro. I think that he could have been a lot better if he had stayed healthy.

 

[ingsve]

I know it could never happen but it would be fun if they switched places on the three GTs some times. A swap between Tour and Vuelta would be interesting. It would set people up for doing the Giro Tour double more easily and it would increase the exposure of the vuelta by having it in the middle of the summer. Perhaps Spain would be too hot in July though given how hot it has been in September?

 

[SergeDeM]

Yeah, you'd need a Vuelta in only northern Spain if you don't want riders to die in of heat exhaustion.

 

[Jukebox]

Big boys will always go to the Tour because of the combination of prestige + media exposure + sponsor pressure. They only do the Giro and Vuelta now in unusual circumstances such as Contador 2008 with Astana banned in the Tour, Basso 2009 after his comeback (don't recall exactly why he didn't go to the Tour) or Nibali forced to change his plans after Pellizotti was banned.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[theswordsman]

Big boys will always go to the Tour because of the combination of prestige + media exposure + sponsor pressure. They only do the Giro and Vuelta now in unusual circumstances such as Contador 2008 with Astana banned in the Tour, Basso 2009 after his comeback (don't recall exactly why he didn't go to the Tour) or Nibali forced to change his plans after Pellizotti was banned.

Hopefully, we might see someone else doing it next year: the carrots will send Igor Antón to the Giro and Samu to the Tour.

Yep, the trick to doing well at both seems to involve being a very talented 25 year old who doesn't prepare for the Giro, and then is able to target the Vuelta as their peak for the year.

Sastre's performance is notable because he's doing well in the third of three, and had problems with illness and injury earlier. He didn't get the teammates he wanted to help him here, but he's still talking about going for it Saturday. I think watching performances like that give ideas to guys like Contador. Sastre is doing this at 35, and if he'd had better luck at the Giro, his year might have really been something.

I could see dedication being a bit of a problem (see Schlecklet). I hope when the 2011Vuelta course is presented, it suits Contador to a tee, as it makes a double attempt more realistic.

For everyone else, I think it would be a case where they go in to the Giro as team leader, or take over that role, with no thoughts past that race. Their team would have to have leaders like Liquigas so that they aren't needed to help someone else at the Tour. Then they need a strong squad for the Vuelta.

I wonder what Saxo Bank Sungard will look like for the Giro if Contador and pals are booked for the other two?