Giving aways stage wins

[Don't be late Pedro]

It is quite obvious that Contador has again let other riders take stage wins even though he was in a position to take them. I can understand in some circumstances where you would do this e.g. Working with another rider on a break to maintain your lead and offer them the win as compensation. But I do wonder why in other situations you would gift them. Cycle politics might play some role i.e. Saving a favour for another day.

If you are strongest rider should you not race for the win if it will not harm your GC position?

 

[gregod]

there is nothing to be gained by being greedy unless you are a sprinter. the goal is the overall classification. building goodwill for the future and paying back past efforts will give a far greater reward in the long run.

contador will benefit from his magnanimity because fans along the route respect what he's done and teams without a leader in contention might be less inclined to help his rivals by attacking.

look at what happened to radioshack's leader last year. he had pretty much burned up any goodwill he had left in the peloton by attacking contador the previous year. part of the reason he had so much bad luck was that he was forced to sit mid-pack most of the time which is always a dangerous place because of little inattentive mistakes.

 

[theswordsman]

Rujano did a lot of work to help Contador put a minute and a half into his rivals. Alberto rewarded him for that, allowing him to have his best win in years.

Tiralongo was a different story. He had crashed out of the Giro last year. Contador called him at the hospital from home, offered encouragement, and gave him his schedule for two months. Tiralongo worked hard for him last year. This past week, Astana finally gave Paolo the green light to try something for himself. He and Alberto talked things over along the way, because just inside seven kilometers to go, Alberto tapped him on the shoulder to signal it was time for him to attack.

Much later, Contador attacked on his own, flying past everyone. He caught Tiralongo and offered encouragement, but after a while, guys were catching up from behind. Alberto went past him on a curve, looked back to make sure he was tucked in, and dragged him up the climb, building a gap for both of them. Tiralongo moved up, and Contador tucked behind him out of the victory photo. There's a great shot of them riding afterward with huge smiles, and there arms across each other's shoulders. Tiralongo started crying during his interview, getting his first pro victory at 33. Contador said that it wasn't a gift, that Tiralongo had won on his strength, and had attacked him 3 times.

Contador didn't need to be greedy. A Giro stage win can make a guy's career. Contador was asked if he'd like to have Tiralongo on his team again, and he said yeah, but it would cost more money now that he had a win

Both moves were really classy, just like the Tour last year when he went to the Radio Shack team bus with gift bags with watches he'd bought the year before to thank Lance and Johan for the win - others had gotten theirs the year before at the victory party.

I was impressed that Contador, on a stage he hadn't reconned, knew exactly when Tiralongo should attack to go for the win, as well as where he had to jump.

 

[CTExile]

Gregod, pretending that there was some sort of peleton-issued comeuppance for Armstong's "attacking" Contador in 2009 is pretty ridiculous. He sat midpack because Armstrong just didn't have elite legs anymore.

I actually think this year simply shows that Berto is finally learning how to be a gracious patron. (Last year's face-patting of Baby Schleck would not exactly qualify)

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Rujano did a lot of work to help Contador put a minute and a half into his rivals. Alberto rewarded him for that, allowing him to have his best win in years.

Tiralongo was a different story...

The Rujano one was fairly obvious but had no idea about the Tiralongo back story other than they were both at Astana. Very interesting, thanks.

One of the reason I mention it was because Contador received some amount of negative criticism when he won the Tour without winning a stage. I realise he had already won in the Giro at Etna so perhaps he was happy with that. Maybe he is just content to put time into his GC rivals.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Just to be clear: I don't think that Contador should be in the race.

However, I don't think that he deserves any criticism for "gifting" (more correctly, not contesting) stage wins against people who have helped him during the stage or who have helped him in the past. Stage wins do not matter to the GC winner. They are the goal of most riders and the consolation of the losing GC contenders, but a rider winning the GC has bigger fish to fry.

Contador has no reason to be an **** about stage wins. Based on climbing ability nobody, bar Schleck Jr for one month a year and possibly Anton on an occasional stage, has any reason to fancy their chances if they find themselves up the road with him on a mountain stage. That's a massive disincentive to work with him. Contador, who is not a stupid lad by any means, has carefully earned a reputation as a guy who will give you the stage if you help him. That means that people will work with him, secure in the knowledge that he won't screw them for a stage win. By any measure of talent, Contador should be the last guy you'd want to find with you ahead of the field on the final mountain. But in fact, most riders know that he's the best person to find with you: He'll be able to work better than anyone else and if you can do your share of the work he won't try to take the win from you.

He has also gone out of his way to reward his domestiques. And that is a very important part of encouraging people to ride their guts out for you.

This sort of thing is where generosity and self-interest coincide in the peloton. If you are good enough that stage victories are nearly irrelevant to your stage race, then you are actually better off using them to earn loyalty and affection. And Contador, as the best stage racer of his generation, is more than good enough to be in that position.

It's the main difference between Contador and Armstrong. Contador seems to feel no need to rub his superiority in.

 

[Pharazon]

i'll be honest.. it ****es me off when he does it... to me, it just seems completely arrogant

 

[VemrJR?]

One man's ceiling is another man's floor

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I understand why he does it, but I don't like it. Great races deserve great finishes. I think a rider should go over the line, knowing he was the best, not because AC gave it to him.

really dislike the gifts.

 

[Bavarianrider]

It is quite obvious that Contador has again let other riders take stage wins even though he was in a position to take them. I can understand in some circumstances where you would do this e.g. Working with another rider on a break to maintain your lead and offer them the win as compensation. But I do wonder why in other situations you would gift them. Cycle politics might play some role i.e. Saving a favour for another day.

If you are strongest rider should you not race for the win if it will not harm your GC position?

Actually i think in a race you always should race for the win. However, i do find it ok if someone in the leader jersey gives away a few stages.
What i don't like is, that very often in GT the whole peleton gives away stage victories to a group of certain riders. Especially in the third week of the Tour you get stages where the peleton just allows riders to go away and doesn't try to hunt them down at all. I don't think that's what it should be like.

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

What i don't like is, that very often in GT the whole peleton gives away stage victories to a group of certain riders. Especially in the third week of the Tour you get stages where the peleton just allows riders to go away and doesn't try to hunt them down at all. I don't think that's what it should be like.

 

[just some guy]

The Rujano one was fairly obvious but had no idea about the Tiralongo back story other than they were both at Astana. Very interesting, thanks.

One of the reason I mention it was because Contador received some amount of negative criticism when he won the Tour without winning a stage. I realise he had already won in the Giro at Etna so perhaps he was happy with that. Maybe he is just content to put time into his GC rivals.

Haven´t read all the posts but the main reason as I can see is that Tiralonga is out off contract at the end of the year - where will he go, Saxo of course.

Some may see it as classy some arrogant - very smart I say, will Tiralonga destory himself for Contador next season or 2 Yes ?

would he have done it anyway probably, but ..... he will now more than every.

 

[ProfTournesol]

Personally, I don't like the idea of gifting a win but I accept that the reasoning behind the opposite view is valid too. what I do object to though is Contador interfering in the result by 'leading out' Tiralongo, then riding 'tail gunner' for him, increasing his chances of a win. he should have passively rode to the finish and let it play out fairly and solely between the other riders.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Tiralongo had never won a race before. Contador didn't need to get that win. It's a nice moment for Tiralongo, Contador has a comfortable lead, what's wrong with it?

I wasn't here at the time, did people criticise Valverde for stopping and waiting, potentially to the detriment of his GC win, to give Sylwester Szmyd the win on Mont Ventoux?

Actually i think in a race you always should race for the win. However, i do find it ok if someone in the leader jersey gives away a few stages.
What i don't like is, that very often in GT the whole peleton gives away stage victories to a group of certain riders. Especially in the third week of the Tour you get stages where the peleton just allows riders to go away and doesn't try to hunt them down at all. I don't think that's what it should be like.

Much better to have HTC hunt them down and have another sprint?

Sometimes, the stage is too tough for the bunch sprinters, the GC men are too tired from the big mountain stages, or resting up ahead of the mountain stages, and nobody has the motivation to destroy themselves to chase what is usually a big breakaway with most teams represented in it, especially if they don't have anybody who they can rely on to finish the stage well. The GC leader's team's only motivation is to keep the leader's jersey. Sure, if you have three or four of these stages in a row it gets annoying (thinking of the '09 Vuelta here) but if nobody is going to attack Valverde, nobody wants to have a bunch sprint and nobody in the break is a threat to Valverde, why should Caisse ride 10 minutes faster and potentially tire themselves out for when they're needed?

 

[T-Nielsen]

I think, from Contadors perspective, that he did the right thing.

If he had won then so what? It would have been another GC stagewin. He will have dozens of those before he is done, and it would not be a spectacular one.

But giving the win to someone who is on his 12th year without a win, someone who always works hard for his captain. That is the kind of story that will be told again and again.

He did not get the win, but perhaps he made little difference in how he will be remembered, as a rider and person, years from now.

 

[Dundee]

If you can bet on who wins a stage 'gifting' is match fixing. If you can 'gift' someone at long odds it is cheating plain and simple. A small amount of people could make a lot of money if someones wins a mountain stage at long odds, and how do the people feel that had their money on Contador? Cheated thats how. The best athlete or team should win, fixing the result is wrong if you can bet on the individual/game.

 

[AussieGoddess]

Personally, I don't like the idea of gifting a win but I accept that the reasoning behind the opposite view is valid too. what I do object to though is Contador interfering in the result by 'leading out' Tiralongo, then riding 'tail gunner' for him, increasing his chances of a win. he should have passively rode to the finish and let it play out fairly and solely between the other riders.

If they were on the same team, no one would question a domestique doing exactly what AC did in any way.

Doing that for another team member is simply tactics. Its not 'interfering in a natural result' or match fixing or anything else - simply playing team tactics.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Merckx was called the Cannibal because he never gave away a stage. Since Indurain GC riders don't seem to care as much about stage wins as they used to.

 

[cycladianpirate]

If you can bet on who wins a stage 'gifting' is match fixing. If you can 'gift' someone at long odds it is cheating plain and simple. A small amount of people could make a lot of money if someones wins a mountain stage at long odds, and how do the people feel that had their money on Contador? Cheated thats how. The best athlete or team should win, fixing the result is wrong if you can bet on the individual/game.

I've heard the exact same argument used in Matchplay Golf (players offering halves when the match is over in any event). Frankly, if you want to bet on a sport that focuses on the punter rather than the participant/spectator, stick to Horse Racing.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Merckx was called the Cannibal because he never gave away a stage. Since Indurain GC riders don't seem to care as much about stage wins as they used to.

I think there is still a bit of a stigma towards people winning GTs without a stage - but Contador already has 2 stages, he doesn't need to win 4 or 5.

 

[hatcher]

As long as his current teammates had no issue with it, then it was fine by me.

 

[craig1985]

Giving the stage to Tiralongo will mean a lot more to him, whereas it doesn't make a difference to Contador if he got the stage win.

 

[42x16ss]

+1

Contador already had what he wanted from the stage and that was more time on Scarponi and Nibali, so why be greedy? IMO this is what separates riders like Contador and Indurain from Armstrong (later in his career anyway). They only take what they need.

For most pros a GT stage win is a highlight of their career, and IMO showing some courtesy to a journeyman domestique is a worthy act of sportsmanship. I think more of Contador for doing it.

 

[movingtarget]

Eddy, "the cannibal" probably never did it. Hinault and Armstrong did sometimes. I think most people are okay with it except maybe the the team sponsors ? It is not strange to see one stage given away but two or three probably indicates how dominant Contador has actually been.

 

[henryg]

I understand why he does it, but I don't like it. Great races deserve great finishes. I think a rider should go over the line, knowing he was the best, not because AC gave it to him.

really dislike the gifts.

No one goes over the line on their own. Domestiques bury themselves to drag you to the finish. Alliances are made in breakaways. This is no different.

Stage races are like chess matches were you can win a battle and lose the war because of it, strategy and tactics make or break a campaign for the top spot.