GP Québec, 201.6 km 07.09.18, GP Montréal, 195.2 km 09.09.18

[Red Rick]

Re: GP Québec, 201.6 km 07.09.18, GP Montréal, 195.2 km 09.0

Yeah these races are dead

 

[Flamin]

Re:

apart from 1,5 season, GVA is just back to normal imho

GVA has beaten prime Sagan in 2015 already, that's 3 years. That's not happening anymore so this is not his "normal level" I'd say.

 

[movingtarget]

Nice double by Matthews.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: GP Québec, 201.6 km 07.09.18, GP Montréal, 195.2 km 09.0

I really liked these races even if Sagan was not riding it. I think parkour is not so bad to provide good racing (except probably finish in Montreal that definitely has to be closer - to inspire attackers ).

But this addition was quite boring. I respect Mathews as a rider but it should be impossible to make a double in these two races. He is good but not that good. Other teams just f....d up or they just did not care.

Races have a perfect date in the calendar. They should be very popular. I wonder if organizers could adapt they stage profiles according to the WCRR profiles a little bit to allure the best rides? In this case to make it harder and more hilly.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

apart from 1,5 season, GVA is just back to normal imho

GVA has beaten prime Sagan in 2015 already, that's 3 years. That's not happening anymore so this is not his "normal level" I'd say.

in some sprints maybe, but the attacking GVA who was a level above was just 1,5 years. Now he's back to the sprinting GVA and even there he is regressing

 

[Red Rick]

Re: GP Québec, 201.6 km 07.09.18, GP Montréal, 195.2 km 09.0

I really liked these races even if Sagan was not riding it. I think parkour is not so bad to provide good racing (except probably finish in Montreal that definitely has to be closer - to inspire attackers ).

But this addition was quite boring. I respect Mathews as a rider but it should be impossible to make a double in these two races. He is good but not that good. Other teams just f....d up or they just did not care.

Races have a perfect date in the calendar. They should be very popular. I wonder if organizers could adapt they stage profiles according to the WCRR profiles a little bit to allure the best rides? In this case to make it harder and more hilly.

Why is that? They're incredibly similar, especially when it comes to the sprint

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

apart from 1,5 season, GVA is just back to normal imho

GVA has beaten prime Sagan in 2015 already, that's 3 years. That's not happening anymore so this is not his "normal level" I'd say.

in some sprints maybe, but the attacking GVA who was a level above was just 1,5 years. Now he's back to the sprinting GVA and even there he is regressing

Back to sprinting GVA? He never was until now. From 2015 onwards he also started winning tough sprints/sprints after a hard race, until then he was only known as a relentless attacker who spent loads of energy in breaks and who came up short in the end. You might want to watch the Paterberg ascent in de Ronde from 2014 for example. As fast as Cancellara/Vanmarcke despite being on the attack from 30-40km out(don't remember the exact point he attacked).

He simply can't do that anymore so no, he's not back to normal level besides 1,5 year.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I disagree with that. Each to his own opinion

 

[Bardamu]

Re: GP Québec, 201.6 km 07.09.18, GP Montréal, 195.2 km 09.0

His performance in the Tour this year was as good as he has ever been. Rio remains his brightest moment, winning on a parcours too tough for him (although he had some luck, but he earned it). His 2017 is a tad overrated I believe, yes he won a lot of cobbled races but he wasn't really stronger than the years before or this year.

 

[Bardamu]

And impressive by Matthews to win this double, it's still odd that they didn't include him in the squad for the WC Road Race, he is in peak shape and is able to get far.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: GP Québec, 201.6 km 07.09.18, GP Montréal, 195.2 km 09.0

I really liked these races even if Sagan was not riding it. I think parkour is not so bad to provide good racing (except probably finish in Montreal that definitely has to be closer - to inspire attackers ).

But this addition was quite boring. I respect Mathews as a rider but it should be impossible to make a double in these two races. He is good but not that good. Other teams just f....d up or they just did not care.

Races have a perfect date in the calendar. They should be very popular. I wonder if organizers could adapt they stage profiles according to the WCRR profiles a little bit to allure the best rides? In this case to make it harder and more hilly.

Why is that? They're incredibly similar, especially when it comes to the sprint

I know how that they are very similar. But if teams play the cards properly it should be difficult to win Montreal after Quebeck. Sagan in his best was not able to do it.
Peloton is normally stronger than one rider. Gerro was able to do it in 2014 but he was very very strong that year and he deserved to win. Mathews is good but not that good to beat the peloton. IMHO.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Well he had a strong team and the fact that multiple teams wanted a sprint. That all helped Matthews

 

[trucido]

Re: Re:

apart from 1,5 season, GVA is just back to normal imho

GVA has beaten prime Sagan in 2015 already, that's 3 years. That's not happening anymore so this is not his "normal level" I'd say.

Sagan in 2015 was 2agan up until Richmond, not sure how that constitutes as "Prime".

Also, other than Omloop (where Sagan is never top shape) and a WT stage here and there, what significant races did he win ahead of Sagan?

The 1.5 year argument holds true.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

apart from 1,5 season, GVA is just back to normal imho

GVA has beaten prime Sagan in 2015 already, that's 3 years. That's not happening anymore so this is not his "normal level" I'd say.

Sagan in 2015 was 2agan up until Richmond, not sure how that constitutes as "Prime".

Also, other than Omloop (where Sagan is never top shape) and a WT stage here and there, what significant races did he win ahead of Sagan?

The 1.5 year argument holds true.

Sagan was back in top shape (or at least very very close) at the Tour in '15. Also compare GVA's ride on Mûr de Bretagne in '15 vs this year. Or watch Milan Sanremo that same year. It's nonsense to say this is his level apart from 1,5 year. He progressed steadily every year up until 2017. This thing about 1,5y on suddenly another level, as if it's comparable to Gilbert 2011, is a myth.

And what does your question have to do with this?

 

[slosada]

They tried some changes to make it more interesting:
- The new climb is closer to the finish
- The changed the KOM points system trying to invite attackers (these are peanuts)

They claim 4528m of vertical gain (D+), and they reduced the distance by 10Km. However I find it hard to believe. Just adding the 4 climbs gives something in the 230m per lap and most Strava activities from yesterday are around 4000m D+ (last years avg is closer to 3500m)

I would argue that:
- The new climb would have been better 3 blocks to the East (Av. Pagnuelo). it's ~500m@8%
- I'd cut short those turns right before Polytechnique (either straight into Decelles or from Cote de Neiges to Queen Mary), trying to favor attacks from the top of Mt Royal

If we were up for more drastic changes:
- Put the finish in the opposite sideof Av. Du Parc
- Let's add some steep climbs in Westmount

 

[trucido]

Re: Re:

apart from 1,5 season, GVA is just back to normal imho

GVA has beaten prime Sagan in 2015 already, that's 3 years. That's not happening anymore so this is not his "normal level" I'd say.

Sagan in 2015 was 2agan up until Richmond, not sure how that constitutes as "Prime".

Also, other than Omloop (where Sagan is never top shape) and a WT stage here and there, what significant races did he win ahead of Sagan?

The 1.5 year argument holds true.

Sagan was back in top shape (or at least very very close) at the Tour in '15. Also compare GVA's ride on Mûr de Bretagne in '15 vs this year. Or watch Milan Sanremo that same year. It's nonsense to say this is his level apart from 1,5 year. He progressed steadily every year up until 2017. This thing about 1,5y on suddenly another level, as if it's comparable to Gilbert 2011, is a myth.

And what does your question have to do with this?

My question was related to your observation that he beat Sagan at his peak, which simply isn't true.

GvA in '17 was another level, perhaps more tactically than physically.