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GT Mountains - The Best

As it seems to be the season for polls and the like:

Rate the order of mountain top finishes in terms of toughness, prestige to win, etc... across all three GT's
I'm not doing this as a poll simply because I don't know them all that well, but you get the drift - Zoncolan, Alpe d'Huez, Angliru, Tourmalet, Ventoux, etc, etc...

What's your top 5 (or more) and why?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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1) Zoncolan
2) Angliru
3) Auronzo (Fuente owned Merckx here in 1974)
4) Alpe d'Huez
5) Puy du Dome (too bad they can't use it anymore)

Honorable mention for Big Bear Lake :rolleyes:

Bola del Mundo will be on this list after a few more uses
 
1 Monte Zoncolan
2 Passo di Mortirolo
3 Angirlu
4 Kronplatz (its the off road sections which make it great)
5 Alpe d Huez (its the crowds, and its position near the end of the Tour)

6 Bulkowina Tatrzanska:)
7 Passo di Stelvio
8 Bola del Mundo
9 Mont Ventoux
10 Sestriere

BTW does anyone know which will be the main event in the Dauphine in 2011. Gallibier, Ventoux, Alpe or neither?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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3 of the past 4 uses of Mortirolo wasn't used as a mountain top finish. 2006 was the last time.

Does anyone envision Mortirolo being used again as an MTF? Or is the finish in Aprica after Mortirolo the route the organizers will continue to use?

If it is used again as a MTF I would probably put this right behind Zoncolan in my intial rating.
 
Sep 8, 2010
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Not ranked...

Blockhaus
Tre Cime di Lavaredo
Passo dello Stelvio
Monte Jafferau
Passo Pordoi
Passo di Fedaia
Monte Grappa
Monte Zoncolan

Puy de Dôme

Lago de Covadonga

Alto de La Línea ;)
 
ProCycling did a wonderful 50 page pull out article of the top 50 climbs around the world. Must read. I have it hanging next to the bed and still read it. It was printed in 2008.
 
nvpacchi said:
3 of the past 4 uses of Mortirolo wasn't used as a mountain top finish. 2006 was the last time.

Does anyone envision Mortirolo being used again as an MTF? Or is the finish in Aprica after Mortirolo the route the organizers will continue to use?

If it is used again as a MTF I would probably put this right behind Zoncolan in my intial rating.

quoi? The Mortirolo has NEVER been used as an MTF in the Giro. There's nothing like enough space at the top for a stage finish.

2010 - finish at Aprica
2008 - finish at Tirano (after descent of Aprica)
2006 - finish at Aprica
2004 - finish at Presolana (after other passes)
1999 - finish at Aprica
1997 - finish at Edolo (descent of Mortirolo)
1996 - finish at Aprica
1994 - finish at Aprica
1991 - finish at Aprica
1990 - finish at Aprica
 
Others of note:

Rettenbachferner (Deutschland Tour)
San Pellegrino in Alpe (see Giro 2000)
Col de la Madeleine (South side)
and since nobody seems to have picked the obvious.........
........Colle delle Finestre!
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
quoi? The Mortirolo has NEVER been used as an MTF in the Giro. There's nothing like enough space at the top for a stage finish.

2010 - finish at Aprica
2008 - finish at Tirano (after descent of Aprica)
2006 - finish at Aprica
2004 - finish at Presolana (after other passes)
1999 - finish at Aprica
1997 - finish at Edolo (descent of Mortirolo)
1996 - finish at Aprica
1994 - finish at Aprica
1991 - finish at Aprica
1990 - finish at Aprica

Thanks for clarifying, for some reason I thought they finished at Mortirolo in 2006. And I was unsure before 1999.

So I guess Mortirolo can't even be considered in the running for best MTFs then.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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The problem with top five MTFs is you get ones like the Tourmalet, Stelvio and Galibier which have achieved their legendary status as passes, and to me I find it a bit incongruous to group them with the real one-way streets. But then Zoncolan is a pass as well, although it's never been used as one and even Zomegnan I'd have thought would see doing that as going a bit far (although you never know).

Then you have a climb like Calar Alto which is frequently used as both a pass and an MTF depending on which side they go.

On my own totally arbitrary basis of eligibility, my top five MTFs would be (in no particular order):

Sierra Nevada - Highest regularly used MTF in the grand tours. One day IRAM or the Veleta will come...
Angliru - Crazy hard, the one Spanish climb that easily hits the front pages (of sports papers and "mainstream" papers, too). The first climb I discovered that made me realise there was so much more than what I saw at the Tour.
Zoncolan - "Lo stadio naturale dello Zoncolan" 4:25 into this video. I never get bored of seeing that.
Luz-Ardiden - Pretty much always comes off the back of the Tourmalet (and usually others beforehand) for a spectacular succession. It's not the toughest climb in and of itself, but tied to the Tourmalet it's always immense. The hairpins make Alpe d'Huez look like a cheap knock-off.
Ventoux - Unlike Alpe d'Huez, this is used fairly scarcely and that adds to the legend. It's a bit like how in my opinion the six-year gap between the third and fourth ascent of Angliru added to the myth that using it three times in four years previously demeaned a little.

If we're going top five climbs whether MTFs or not, then I'd say:

Madeleine - I've always preferred this to its neighbours. Two fantastically different but equally dramatic ascents (plus the as-yet unused Third Way). It's the Alpine workhorse, a leg-breaker which always seems to let the Galibier or the Alpe get all the attention. 2010 was a happy break with that tradition.
Larrau - A much more overlooked climb. Laughs in the face of the Tourmalet, involved in two of the toughest stages in recent Tour history.
Mortirolo - It's so annoying when everyone waits for the final climb on an MTF stage to attack. This loyal soldier makes sure that the damage is already done before the time they reach (invariably) Aprica.
San Lorenzo - Doesn't have the history that others do, but it has two gloriously nutty ascents and stands out as the Vuelta's principal non-MTF climb and is a significant block in building better Vuelta stages. Like the Madeleine and Larrau, usually overshadowed by a less impressive neighbour which just makes me love you all the more, baby.
Finestre - Few are the climbs that accrue the kind of adoration this has despite only being used once ever, until next year at least.

These aren't necessarily all my favourite climbs (some of them are) - I'd happily take the Fauniera or Mont du Chat over several of them - but they're the ones which I think deserve the most prestige afforded to them on a mixture of history, difficulty and style.
 
My favourite loyal footsoldier is the Passo Fedaia. Used as a building block in many a great Giro stage, located well for linking together other great climbs. Another particular favourite isn't a GT climb, sadly enough - the Vuelta a Burgos' key climb, Lagunas de Neila. I have a soft spot for Kitzbüheler Horn too.
 
Skip Madness said:
The problem with top five MTFs is you get ones like the Tourmalet, Stelvio and Galibier which have achieved their legendary status as passes, and to me I find it a bit incongruous to group them with the real one-way streets. But then Zoncolan is a pass as well, although it's never been used as one and even Zomegnan I'd have thought would see doing that as going a bit far (although you never know).

Then you have a climb like Calar Alto which is frequently used as both a pass and an MTF depending on which side they go.

On my own totally arbitrary basis of eligibility, my top five MTFs would be (in no particular order):

Sierra Nevada - Highest regularly used MTF in the grand tours. One day IRAM or the Veleta will come...
Angliru - Crazy hard, the one Spanish climb that easily hits the front pages (of sports papers and "mainstream" papers, too). The first climb I discovered that made me realise there was so much more than what I saw at the Tour.
Zoncolan - "Lo stadio naturale dello Zoncolan" 4:25 into this video. I never get bored of seeing that.
Luz-Ardiden - Pretty much always comes off the back of the Tourmalet (and usually others beforehand) for a spectacular succession. It's not the toughest climb in and of itself, but tied to the Tourmalet it's always immense. The hairpins make Alpe d'Huez look like a cheap knock-off.
Ventoux - Unlike Alpe d'Huez, this is used fairly scarcely and that adds to the legend. It's a bit like how in my opinion the six-year gap between the third and fourth ascent of Angliru added to the myth that using it three times in four years previously demeaned a little.

If we're going top five climbs whether MTFs or not, then I'd say:

Madeleine - I've always preferred this to its neighbours. Two fantastically different but equally dramatic ascents (plus the as-yet unused Third Way). It's the Alpine workhorse, a leg-breaker which always seems to let the Galibier or the Alpe get all the attention. 2010 was a happy break with that tradition.
Larrau - A much more overlooked climb. Laughs in the face of the Tourmalet, involved in two of the toughest stages in recent Tour history.
Mortirolo - It's so annoying when everyone waits for the final climb on an MTF stage to attack. This loyal soldier makes sure that the damage is already done before the time they reach (invariably) Aprica.
San Lorenzo - Doesn't have the history that others do, but it has two gloriously nutty ascents and stands out as the Vuelta's principal non-MTF climb and is a significant block in building better Vuelta stages. Like the Madeleine and Larrau, usually overshadowed by a less impressive neighbour which just makes me love you all the more, baby.
Finestre - Few are the climbs that accrue the kind of adoration this has despite only being used once ever, until next year at least.

These aren't necessarily all my favourite climbs (some of them are) - I'd happily take the Fauniera or Mont du Chat over several of them - but they're the ones which I think deserve the most prestige afforded to them on a mixture of history, difficulty and style.

Pardon my ignorance on this, though ive thought about it before.

So is the difference between a pass and an mtf is that a pass, the road continues and goes down the other side, whereas the mountain, the road stops? Or is it that the pass doesnt go over the top of the mountain but just as high as the road goes, whereas a mountain, the road goes to the top (or near it anyway).
 
An MTF = stage finishes atop the mountain
A pass = stage doesn't finish atop the mountain. With many of them it can (and often does, ego Zoncolán, Aprica, Tourmalet).

Some mountain roads have to be MTFs - they are only one-way (or at least only accessible with roads of the requisite quality for racing from one side). Les-Deux-Alpes, Alpe d'Huez, Angliru and Tre Cime di Lavaredo are like this. Others can be raced down and linked to other climbs or a stage town, at least in theory (some are unrealistic to do so, like Zoncolán).
 
Jul 24, 2009
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Well the definition of a pass or a col is quite technical (the lowest point between two peaks, if I'm not mistaken). In general cycling parlance I'd say "pass" is used less technically to denote a climb with two or more sides so it can be ascended and descended via different routes in one go. Mountain-top finishes very rarely finish on the actual tops of mountains, it's just a term used to denote a significant climb to the finish line. Likewise, using the looser definition, some "passes" may not be passes as such (they could go right over the top of a mountain and down the other side).

Certainly in my own simplistic vocabulary a pass means a climb you don't finish on (even if when you reach the top it plateaus rather than descends), and an MTF is one you do finish on. Hence my confusion about how to categorise climbs like Calar Alto, Stelvio and the Tourmalet.

Edit: Beaten to it by LS, who handily explained it much more concisely.
 
Libertine Seguros said:
An MTF = stage finishes atop the mountain
A pass = stage doesn't finish atop the mountain. With many of them it can (and often does, ego Zoncolán, Aprica, Tourmalet).

Some mountain roads have to be MTFs - they are only one-way (or at least only accessible with roads of the requisite quality for racing from one side). Les-Deux-Alpes, Alpe d'Huez, Angliru and Tre Cime di Lavaredo are like this. Others can be raced down and linked to other climbs or a stage town, at least in theory (some are unrealistic to do so, like Zoncolán).

I know MTF means mountain top finish, but why for example is Zonc called MONTE Zoncolan, Ventoux - MONT Ventoux, whereas its PASSO di Stelvio and PASSO di Mortirolo.

Is it simply that Mortirolo and Stelvio have the road continue after the highest point?

And why would it be unrealistic to do this on Zoncolan? isnt that what they wanted to do this year?

Also, do they ever really reach the top of the mountain. I ask this because when they show the google earth of mountain stages, even with things like Madeline, the roads only seem to go at most halfway up the side of the mountains, then back down the same side.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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Passo/Col/Coll/Colle/Collado/Puerto usually denotes a pass as I described above (the lowest point between two peaks).

Monte/Mont/Montée/Alto/Côte/Cima can go to the peaks of mountains, but still often don't go right to the top.
 
The Hitch said:
I know MTF means mountain top finish, but why for example is Zonc called MONTE Zoncolan, Ventoux - MONT Ventoux, whereas its PASSO di Stelvio and PASSO di Mortirolo.

Is it simply that Mortirolo and Stelvio have the road continue after the highest point?

And why would it be unrealistic to do this on Zoncolan? isnt that what they wanted to do this year?

Also, do they ever really reach the top of the mountain. I ask this because when they show the google earth of mountain stages, even with things like Madeline, the roads only seem to go at most halfway up the side of the mountains, then back down the same side.
Ventoux and Zoncolán are the names of the mountains they are climbing, Stelvio and Mortirolo are the names of the roads they are climbing the mountains on. Stelvio is the name of the mountain pass marking the historically most accessible and easiest (!) route between the towns of Bormio and Stelvio (most traffic in the past would likely have been headed from Bormio to Stelvio, hence naming it after the latter). It climbs between Monte Cristallo, Piz Lad and Monte Cavallaccio. The Passo di Mortirolo climbs up one side of Monte Sobretta at a fairly low point. Gavia could be either - it's the highest paved point on Monte Gavia, but the route is the Pass that heads up and down Monte Gavia, hence Passo di Gavia. Passo Fedaia is named after the Lake at its highest point, but is also called Marmolada after the mountain group it ascends.
 
Usually the only times they reach the real top of a mountain is when they climb up to an antenna or astronomical observatory and the like, as is the case with Bola del Mundo.

Otherwise it's pretty pointless to climb all the way up, especially if it's a pass, since the shortest way would be to cut through the valley or the side of the mountain.
 
Jul 27, 2010
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Though it is not in a GT (or any race now), my vote goes to Brasstown Bald. It is a 10k climb at 3% just to get to the official bottom, then an average 11% (max 24%) for the final 5k.:eek:
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
Others of note:

Rettenbachferner (Deutschland Tour)
San Pellegrino in Alpe (see Giro 2000)
Col de la Madeleine (South side)
and since nobody seems to have picked the obvious.........
........Colle delle Finestre!

Yes !!! Finestre is a belissima . Hell the Dolomites are awesome.
Sn Pellegrino with the waterfall is nice too! so many epic climbs.
 
dolophonic said:
Yes !!! Finestre is a belissima . Hell the Dolomites are awesome.
Sn Pellegrino with the waterfall is nice too! so many epic climbs.

I must be honest, when I saw the Mortirolo, I fixated on climbs, rather than MTFs.
Waterfalls? IMO, Fedaia/Marmolada has the best, as it is dramatically situated in the narrow gorge towards the foot of the climb.
Sn Pelligrino is in the Apuan Alps. Very narrow and roughly 13kms at near 9% average. Francesco Cassagrande attacked on this climb before soloing into Abertone, gaining a big lead in the 2000 Giro, just a few days after the death of Gino Bartali.

So, none of mine count.............except the Rettenbachferner. To me, this is the teutonic Zoncolan: over 10kms long and over 12% average gradient.
Plenty of it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDJiOAloGfQ