Hampsten vs LeMond - 1991 thru 1994

[Polish]

Andy and Greg are about the same age (Andy is 10 months younger).
And Andy and Greg were clean riders imo. Squeaky Clean imo.
Both spectacular GT Riders.

Both ended their racing careers at the "Dawn of the EPO Era" yikes.

So how come Andy had arguably his best years and Greg kind of sucked?

ANDY

1991
3rd Overall Tour de Suisse
1st King of the Mountains
8th Overall Tour de France
5th Overall Paris–Nice

1992
4th Overall Tour de France
1st Stage 14 Alpe d'Huez
1st Overall Tour de Romandie
1st Stage 3
5th Overall Giro d'Italia

1993
1st overall Tour de Galice
1st Stage 2
3rd overall Tour de Romandie
8th Overall Tour de France
Stage win Semaine Catalane

1994
3rd overall Tour de Romandie
3rd overall Semaine Catalane

GREG

1991 – Z
7thTour de France
12th Tour DuPont

1992 – Z
Tour DuPont (1st overall; Prologue (ITT))
DNF - Tour de France

1993 - GAN
no major results

1994 - GAN
no major results

 

[Oldman]

Andy looks like a late-bloomer, physically. Greg appeared pretty physcially mature at young age. Sometimes it's just when the years of training and maturation coincide for good performances.

 

[Benotti69]

why are you not listing Hampstein's team, it may have something to with his results

 

[Oldman]

Oh...no one hit Andy with a barrelfull of birdshot.

 

[Aguirre]

if this thread serves for speculating Andy got EPO meanwhile Greg was clean of EPO, then, I condenm this thread to the worst of the oscurities...

Andy was a great rider, I used to love a lot since 1985-1986 years. The problem was in Greg, from being a super classy rider, after the injury he returned as a clumsy anti-stylist rider, 1989 was ok, but 1990's Tour gave signs of Greg as wheel-sucling anti-stylist rider, focusing all the season to the Tour and going to the Giro in very bad conditions searching for kms. LeMond emerged as a world champion very early, Hampsted came later.

he suddenly decline very quick, and fignon did too, roche and delgado were living their old days in the glory too. I guess is not EPO, that's cyclical, 20 years ago a rider with 32 years old was oldie, not now.

Hampsten declined himself quite quickly too, so it is unfair to compare Andy with Greg in a time frame of 2 or 3 years.

Anyway my admiration goes for both

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

How many TdFs did the hamster win? Any world championships? Maybe GL just did a whole bunch early in his career, and then burnt out. He certainly wouldn't have the patent on that...

 

[Aguirre]

well, Andy made a lot for USA cycling alongside 7Eleven and others, Andy Hampsted deserves an honnour place in cycling history

he won an amazig Giro... and 2 times subida a urkiola...

he deserves a place among the most stylist climbers!

 

[pmcg76]

if this thread serves for speculating Andy got EPO meanwhile Greg was clean of EPO, then, I condenm this thread to the worst of the oscurities...

Andy was a great rider, I used to love a lot since 1985-1986 years. The problem was in Greg, from being a super classy rider, after the injury he returned as a clumsy anti-stylist rider, 1989 was ok, but 1990's Tour gave signs of Greg as wheel-sucling anti-stylist rider, focusing all the season to the Tour and going to the Giro in very bad conditions searching for kms. LeMond emerged as a world champion very early, Hampsted came later.

he suddenly decline very quick, and fignon did too, roche and delgado were living their old days in the glory too. I guess is not EPO, that's cyclical, 20 years ago a rider with 32 years old was oldie, not now.

Hampsten declined himself quite quickly too, so it is unfair to compare Andy with Greg in a time frame of 2 or 3 years.

Anyway my admiration goes for both

I think the point of this thread is to show LeMonds decline was not due to EPO and as a way of backing that claim, Polish is putting forward Hampsten who is also considered clean, who still performed well during the same period whilst Lemond declined.

To be honest, I agree with that view(I know agreeing with Polish). Maybe in 91 a few EPO guys were in front of LeMond but 92-94 it was LeMonds health that let him down. Of course the increase in EPO usage hastened his decline but it was more down to his health and he admitted that himself when he retired.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Actually I think I agree too, EPO coming on the scene was not the reason for Greg's decline, and if that is the case his campaign for clean cycling is not because of personal bitterness at being out done by another American, but purely and honestly because he thinks it is the right thing to do. Thanks Polish, that is an excellent point.

 

[AngusW]

Andy and Greg are about the same age (Andy is 10 months younger).
And Andy and Greg were clean riders imo. Squeaky Clean imo.
Both spectacular GT Riders.

Both ended their racing careers at the "Dawn of the EPO Era" yikes.

So how come Andy had arguably his best years and Greg kind of sucked?

ANDY

1991
3rd Overall Tour de Suisse
1st King of the Mountains
8th Overall Tour de France
5th Overall Paris–Nice

1992
4th Overall Tour de France
1st Stage 14 Alpe d'Huez
1st Overall Tour de Romandie
1st Stage 3
5th Overall Giro d'Italia

1993
1st overall Tour de Galice
1st Stage 2
3rd overall Tour de Romandie
8th Overall Tour de France
Stage win Semaine Catalane

1994
3rd overall Tour de Romandie
3rd overall Semaine Catalane

GREG

1991 – Z
7thTour de France
12th Tour DuPont

1992 – Z
Tour DuPont (1st overall; Prologue (ITT))
DNF - Tour de France

1993 - GAN
no major results

1994 - GAN
no major results

You could argue that Andy Hampsten had his best years from 1985 to 1990:

1985
1st Gran Premio Yardley Gold de Montaña
1st Stage 20 win Giro d'Italia

1986
1st Overall Tour de Suisse
1st Prologue

4th overall Tour de France
Best Young Rider

1987
1st Overall Tour de Suisse

1988
1st Overall Giro d'Italia
1st King of the Mountains Jersey
2 stage wins

1989
1st Subida a Urkiola
3rd Overall Giro d'Italia
Stage win Tour de Pays Basque

1990
1st Subida a Urkiola
3rd Overall Tour de Suisse

 

[Old School]

I was a fan of both...Andy was a great teammate to Greg...Greg got old quickly...being shot and having that blood disorder didn't help his health.

My question is...whatever happend to the great Raul Alcala!?!? Loved his style, though it didn't result in great victories.

 

[BotanyBay]

Roy Batty

I believe it was 1992 when Lemond and Kathy got a phone call in the middle of the night from the American wife of a young Dutch rider on Greg's PDM team. She'd just realized that her husband was lying cold (and dead) next to her from EPO abuse. Greg has gone on-record saying that he was disgusted by what the PDM team was attempting to force the riders to do, so perhaps Greg was fighting a battle of disillusion after more than 10 years of riding as a Pro.
This story is available to read on Greg's blog, BTW. Kathy wrote it down.

"The flame that burns twice as bright last half as long", and Greg, you've burned oh-so bright! (Sorry, I love Blade Runner)

 

[BotanyBay]

I was a fan of both...Andy was a great teammate to Greg...Greg got old quickly...being shot and having that blood disorder didn't help his health.

My question is...whatever happend to the great Raul Alcala!?!? Loved his style, though it didn't result in great victories.

Raul is in the middle of a comeback. He is the Mexican national TT champion, and he can often be found racing in events in Texas. He has a goal of again riding for a D1 pro team. Hope he makes it!

 

[Lucky1]

You could argue that Andy Hampsten had his best years from 1985 to 1990:

1985
1st Gran Premio Yardley Gold de Montaña
1st Stage 20 win Giro d'Italia

1986
1st Overall Tour de Suisse
1st Prologue

4th overall Tour de France
Best Young Rider

1987
1st Overall Tour de Suisse

1988
1st Overall Giro d'Italia
1st King of the Mountains Jersey
2 stage wins

1989
1st Subida a Urkiola
3rd Overall Giro d'Italia
Stage win Tour de Pays Basque

1990
1st Subida a Urkiola
3rd Overall Tour de Suisse

Agreed - his best years were not the early 1990s.

 

[steelciocc]

Hmmm, interesting theory...

Smells like bait to me...

 

[Polish]

Agreed - his best years were not the early 1990s.

The OP was comparing Andy to Greg in the twilight of their careers.
Not Andy to Andy.

That said, I would still argue 91-94 Andy is more impressive than early Andy.
He beat many more dopers 91-94, that is for sure. Early Giro win was impressive, sure, duh.

But 3 Top 10's in the TdF plus THE stage win up Alpe d'huez agianst al those dopers is awesome.

 

[flicker]

What ended LeMonds career was a combo of super hard riding for a long time combined with his hunting accident. Politics in cycling may have drained him also. Greg is stronger than riders on EPO, trust me on this one. As far as Hampten on EPO?not!

 

[ultimobici]

The OP was comparing Andy to Greg in the twilight of their careers.
Not Andy to Andy.

That said, I would still argue 91-94 Andy is more impressive than early Andy.
He beat many more dopers 91-94, that is for sure. Early Giro win was impressive, sure, duh.

But 3 Top 10's in the TdF plus THE stage win up Alpe d'huez agianst al those dopers is awesome.

Andy H was a pure GT rider & climber to boot. He has no classics results at all. Climbers have historically had much longer careers at the top than GT allrounders like Lemond.

 

[BotanyBay]

I remember riding the Whiskey Creek Stage Race in 1985 as a junior. Hampsten's peloton started several minutes behind us on the 50-mile altitude 9000 road race. The final climb up to the resort was long and steep. Hampsten was soloing, caught and passed the breakaway that I was in. He was doing this climb in the big ring. I was in the middle of a not-so-bad ride myself, but I was in 42x21. When I saw this display, I learned the difference between us and "them".

 

[Polish]

What ended LeMonds career was a combo of super hard riding for a long time combined with his hunting accident. Politics in cycling may have drained him also. Greg is stronger than riders on EPO, trust me on this one. As far as Hampten on EPO?not!

+1 all around.

Especially that Greg was stronger than riders on EPO. GRRR exclamation point.
And a clean Hampsten was stronger than riders on EPO, but not as strong as Greg.

And your assessment of what ended LeMond's career...

 

[BotanyBay]

The sad part in all of this is (and debate all you want about Hampsten or Lemond ever having doped) is that I think everyone can agree that both of these riders had to have ridden mostly clean in the earlier years at the top.

But we've got top riders today who were regularly doping at the age of 18. We have no idea how these riders would have progressed had they never doped, nor if any other riders (who had not doped) might have rightfully had those positions on Pro Tour teams.

Everything has been screwed to hell by this sad trend.

 

[flicker]

+1 all around.

Especially that Greg was stronger than riders on EPO. GRRR exclamation point.
And a clean Hampsten was stronger than riders on EPO, but not as strong as Greg.

And your assessment of what ended LeMond's career...

Most of the undoped riders like Merckx DeVlaemink, Maertens,Moser,Giamondi, Battaglin, VanLooy, Van Springel had shorter careers due to having to ride steel, frames without carbon wheels or clipless pedals.+ the road services were quite a bit rougher. Not to mention riding mega amount of miles without having their own private Gulfstreams.

Also Greg rode in an aggressive style, without the stronger teams. Mostly though the trauma of being shot did him in, he almost died. A huge amount of time before he had medical attention. taint funny Gregs' accident, McGee.

 

[ultimobici]

+1 all around.

Especially that Greg was stronger than riders on EPO. GRRR exclamation point.
And a clean Hampsten was stronger than riders on EPO, but not as strong as Greg.

And your assessment of what ended LeMond's career...

You are aware that Lemond turned pro 4 full years before Hampsten. Lemond rode all the classics as a contender all the way up to his hunting accident, placing in the top 5 of Roubaix, Flanders & San Remo. Hampsten in contrast didn't ever figure in any of the spring classics and had a shorter less fruitful career than Lemond despite the lack of interruption. That's before we look at Hampsten's team in 1995.

 

[Polish]

You are aware that Lemond turned pro 4 full years before Hampsten. Lemond rode all the classics as a contender all the way up to his hunting accident, placing in the top 5 of Roubaix, Flanders & San Remo. Hampsten in contrast didn't ever figure in any of the spring classics and had a shorter less fruitful career than Lemond despite the lack of interruption. That's before we look at Hampsten's team in 1995.

Yes ulitmo, I am aware of all that. I was following the sport during that time frame.

I am also aware that there are a bunch of "newbies" that believe the Myth that "EPO ended Greg's career. That is the reason he could not keep up. Blah Blah Blah". That is not what happened. BTW, and OT, Big Mig was awesome. Humble and awesome. No finger bangs. A TRUE Patron of the Peloton. I was a big Greg fanboy, and became a joint Greg/Miquel Fanboy. Only later when Greg started trashing Big Mig did I start to think "WTF? That is not what happened"

 

[ultimobici]

Yes ulitmo, I am aware of all that. I was following the sport during that time frame.

I am also aware that there are a bunch of "newbies" that believe the Myth that "EPO ended Greg's career. That is the reason he could not keep up. Blah Blah Blah". That is not what happened. BTW, and OT, Big Mig was awesome. Humble and awesome. No finger bangs. A TRUE Patron of the Peloton. I was a big Greg fanboy, and became a joint Greg/Miquel Fanboy. Only later when Greg started trashing Big Mig did I start to think "WTF? That is not what happened"

Evidently you weren't paying attention.