Help from teammates in the Mountains? How?

[Road Hazard]

Serious question: how do teammates help in the mountains?

I've done club rides and the benefit of drafting, especially in a pack, is quite noticeable. They say you get 30% more efficiency and it must be a critical 30% because it can almost feel like you're being swept along by the draft and vortex of the bunch.

But I have difficulty picturing how teammates help in mountain climbs where headwind isn't really a factor (or is it? I don't know). It must be important because all the commentators talk about Radioshack's depth in the mountains, and Evan's lack of the same.

Sometimes they talk about countering attacks etc., but I don't see how it would help Evans for example if his team flew off the front to capture an attack... isn't the bottom line still where Evans is at the finish?

So, how do teammates play such a critical role in the mountains?

 

[roundabout]

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/giro04/?id=results/stage16

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2005//vuelta05/?id=results/vuelta0515

read the reports

 

[Cobblestones]

Setting pace for instance.

 

[scribe]

Assist with mechanicals, throw competition off pace with speed variance/blocking, mental edge over opponents without support

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

You can get a little bit of a draft going uphill. Not 30%, but if it's 3-5%, that still makes a difference.

Pacing is indeed a way to get assistance, in two ways.

• First, as part of a strategy a team will know just how fast the leader wants to climb to discourage attacks, and drop rivals. The domestiques will not be able to sustain the pace of the leader up the entire climb, but that's not their job. In the 2004 Tour USPS sent three riders in front of Lance in the first kilometer up Alpe d'Huez and set a blistering pace, mostly in order to drop Ulrich. First Beltran, then Rubiera, then finally Heras. They knew Lance could keep up, even if eventually they couldn't. Watch here. Their attack starts about 16 seconds in.

• Second, if a leader has cracked, a domestique can come up and ride in front of the leader "pulling" him along. How this can work is that the leader may be mentally as well as physically drained. By having the domestique ahead of him, he can stop thinking about anything and just follow the other rider. One trick is to just stare at the freewheel of the rider in front of you and allow yourself to be mesmerized by it and can get back into a groove. In 2006 Floyd Landis bonked big time, and Axel Merckx towed him to the finish over the last few KM. Watch here, about 5:31 in, you can see it.

 

[Ryaguas]

You can get a little bit of a draft going uphill. Not 30%, but if it's 3-5%, that still makes a difference.

Pacing is indeed a way to get assistance, in two ways.

• First, as part of a strategy a team will know just how fast the leader wants to climb to discourage attacks, and drop rivals. The domestiques will not be able to sustain the pace of the leader up the entire climb, but that's not their job. In the 2004 Tour USPS sent three riders in front of Lance in the first kilometer up Alpe d'Huez and set a blistering pace, mostly in order to drop Ulrich. First Beltran, then Rubiera, then finally Heras. They knew Lance could keep up, even if eventually they couldn't. Watch here. Their attack starts about 16 seconds in.

• Second, if a leader has cracked, a domestique can come up and ride in front of the leader "pulling" him along. How this can work is that the leader may be mentally as well as physically drained. By having the domestique ahead of him, he can stop thinking about anything and just follow the other rider. One trick is to just stare at the freewheel of the rider in front of you and allow yourself to be mesmerized by it and can get back into a groove. In 2006 Floyd Landis bonked big time, and Axel Merckx towed him to the finish over the last few KM. Watch here, about 5:31 in, you can see it.

UFFFFF great explanation!!!! +132654624654654654

 

[Fester]

Climbing speeds on most climbs tend to be high, like 27, 30 even 40kph. There is an advantage in drafting. Setting tempo also help, fast enough others wont see an advantage in attacking. On short climbs this doesn't really apply because a whole load of different riders can power over them.

 

[ozymandias]

You can get a little bit of a draft going uphill. Not 30%, but if it's 3-5%, that still makes a difference.

Pacing is indeed a way to get assistance, in two ways.

• First, as part of a strategy a team will know just how fast the leader wants to climb to discourage attacks, and drop rivals. The domestiques will not be able to sustain the pace of the leader up the entire climb, but that's not their job. In the 2004 Tour USPS sent three riders in front of Lance in the first kilometer up Alpe d'Huez and set a blistering pace, mostly in order to drop Ulrich. First Beltran, then Rubiera, then finally Heras. They knew Lance could keep up, even if eventually they couldn't. Watch here. Their attack starts about 16 seconds in.

• Second, if a leader has cracked, a domestique can come up and ride in front of the leader "pulling" him along. How this can work is that the leader may be mentally as well as physically drained. By having the domestique ahead of him, he can stop thinking about anything and just follow the other rider. One trick is to just stare at the freewheel of the rider in front of you and allow yourself to be mesmerized by it and can get back into a groove. In 2006 Floyd Landis bonked big time, and Axel Merckx towed him to the finish over the last few KM. Watch here, about 5:31 in, you can see it.

Good Answer! Thanks.

 

[Mambo95]

Alpe d'Huez has pretty much nailed it. But I'd add another benefit - morale. It's always good to see a team mate around who you know you can rely on if need be.

Basically, you can get away without mountain domestiques, but you'd rather have them than not.

 

[The Falcon]

Alpe d'Huez is spot on. I have been goooorrne before on a long Alpine climb of 20klms and just having a mate to ride a steady tempo when you have cracked is a big help. Dont think, just follow that wheel...

I would add some weight to Festers point on speed too......they are climbing much quicker than us mortals so they still get good drafts, particularly on climbs of lesser gradient - ie. around 5%.

 

[The Hitch]

also considering most mountains dont end the stage, the terrain will eventually go down or often, at some point flatten out. At this point drafting comes back into play.

Watch Nibali and Basso in the giro. On stage 14 Basso had nibali with him on the monte grappa while evans and scarponi had no one. So Once it went down hill, nibali went and evans and scarponi had to tow basso all the way to the finish while chasing nibali, saving basso a lot of energy.

then in the montirillo stage, a similar thing happened. Basso and nibali worked together once the terrain flattened out a bit, while arroyo basically worked on his own, giving them a major advantage.

There are so many other examples, those were just very recent.
And some mountains flatten out a bit on the climbs, dont have 10% gradients all the time and might for a while level out a bit, allowing drafting.

 

[Potomac]

also considering most mountains dont end the stage, the terrain will eventually go down or often, at some point flatten out. At this point drafting comes back into play.

Watch Nibali and Basso in the giro. On stage 14 Basso had nibali with him on the monte grappa while evans and scarponi had no one. So Once it went down hill, nibali went and evans and scarponi had to tow basso all the way to the finish while chasing nibali, saving basso a lot of energy.

This is why I LIKE stages that end with climb, descent, and then a run in.

 

[The Barb]

You can get a little bit of a draft going uphill. Not 30%, but if it's 3-5%, that still makes a difference.

Pacing is indeed a way to get assistance, in two ways.

• First, as part of a strategy a team will know just how fast the leader wants to climb to discourage attacks, and drop rivals. The domestiques will not be able to sustain the pace of the leader up the entire climb, but that's not their job. In the 2004 Tour USPS sent three riders in front of Lance in the first kilometer up Alpe d'Huez and set a blistering pace, mostly in order to drop Ulrich. First Beltran, then Rubiera, then finally Heras. They knew Lance could keep up, even if eventually they couldn't. Watch here. Their attack starts about 16 seconds in.

• Second, if a leader has cracked, a domestique can come up and ride in front of the leader "pulling" him along. How this can work is that the leader may be mentally as well as physically drained. By having the domestique ahead of him, he can stop thinking about anything and just follow the other rider. One trick is to just stare at the freewheel of the rider in front of you and allow yourself to be mesmerized by it and can get back into a groove. In 2006 Floyd Landis bonked big time, and Axel Merckx towed him to the finish over the last few KM. Watch here, about 5:31 in, you can see it.

Fabulous post Alpe d'Huez. Brilliant stuff.

 

[Dominar]

Thanks, Alpe d'Huez and others. This is the kind of educational thread I come to the forums for.

 

[boardhanger]

Comparing a club ride and its route to a grand tour mountain stage???? which average 18-19mph with 40-50 KM uphill. So consider the draft you get on a club ride at the same average speed (18-19mph)is quite noticable and most club rides don't have H.C catorgy climbs.

 

[scribe]

Another advantage is the possibility that teammate might actually outplace the leader in GC. This can be quite a motivator for the leader, giving him additional edge over the competition....unless all the team cars leave you behind in your mouse slippers at the hotel

 

[brianf7]

You get up them hills any way you can and if you got someone to pace or encourage you it is a big help. even sucking wheels if they isolate a rider from his team he is stuffed they keep attacking so if you have someone else to go after each attack then it makes life possible not easy.