Teams & Riders Hot Foss - The Tobias Foss Thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

New year, new thread title.

Tobias Foss will start his season in Algarve tomorrow. The route should suit him if he's in decent shape. He finished 6th last year, despite the crash he had with Higuíta on Alto da Fóia. Hopefully he'll avoid that this time around.

It seems certain that he will be leaving JV at the end of the year, so results will matter if he wants to get a big contract somewhere else. Uno-X is of course a likely option, but other teams might also be interested.

What was the previous title again?
I think i have another (better) one if you care to change it somewhere down the line: "What's all the Foss about?"

 

[Samu Cuenca]

What was the previous title again?
I think i have another (better) one if you care to change it somewhere down the line: "What's all the Foss about?"

The original title paid homage to TLC, because foss means waterfall in Norwegian.
I did consider an "What's the Foss" title, but I liked this one more.

 

[laarsland]

Paid the cost to be the Foss

 

[hayneplane]

New year, new thread title.

Tobias Foss will start his season in Algarve tomorrow. The route should suit him if he's in decent shape. He finished 6th last year, despite the crash he had with Higuíta on Alto da Fóia. Hopefully he'll avoid that this time around.

It seems certain that he will be leaving JV at the end of the year, so results will matter if he wants to get a big contract somewhere else. Uno-X is of course a likely option, but other teams might also be interested.

Was going to say I never noticed the thread title before but I do love it

 

[Lequack]

He seems to be in great form in Paris Nice. Will he want to be a domestique for Roglic in the Giro or is he going as one of the leaders?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He seems to be in great form in Paris Nice. Will he want to be a domestique for Roglic in the Giro or is he going as one of the leaders?

If the team manages the situation well, one would assume they use him as a domestique. Kelderman is also going to the Giro, so he should still be ahead of Foss in the pecking order. He was allowed to ride for himself at Algarve, he didn't exactly light up the scene and his climbing has been suspect for months. Maybe the team could promise him that he can be leader in some one week races, or that he can go in a break once or twice during the Giro, in order to keep him happy, but i can't imagine (again, especially since Kelderman will be going to the Giro as well), that he would be anything else than a domestique there. Maybe if he does a good job, he can be co-leader/backup in the Vuelta or something.

 

[staubsauger]

If the team manages the situation well, one would assume they use him as a domestique. Kelderman is also going to the Giro, so he should still be ahead of Foss in the pecking order. He was allowed to ride for himself at Algarve, he didn't exactly light up the scene and his climbing has been suspect for months. Maybe the team could promise him that he can be leader in some one week races, or that he can go in a break once or twice during the Giro, in order to keep him happy, but i can't imagine (again, especially since Kelderman will be going to the Giro as well), that he would be anything else than a domestique there. Maybe if he does a good job, he can be co-leader/backup in the Vuelta or something.

Tour de Suisse? Albulapass and 25 kilometres TT in St. Gallen should be his cup of tea.

 

[Red Rick]

He seems to be in great form in Paris Nice. Will he want to be a domestique for Roglic in the Giro or is he going as one of the leaders?

Very strong pull yesterday, especially considering the headwind, but there's 0 chance Foss gets any leadership in the Giro.

If Foss wants to be a GC leader then he just wants something he's not made for. He is literally heavier than Olav Kooij.

 

[staubsauger]

Very strong pull yesterday, especially considering the headwind, but there's 0 chance Foss gets any leadership in the Giro.

If Foss wants to be a GC leader then he just wants something he's not made for. He is literally heavier than Olav Kooij.

Foss is only 2 kilos heavier than Lance Armstrong!

 

[Red Rick]

Foss is only 2 kilos heavier than Lance Armstrong!

Yeah that says a lot considering Armstrong dominated 20 years ago and the heaviest top GC riders these days are around 7-8kg lighter than Foss.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yeah that says a lot considering Armstrong dominated 20 years ago and the heaviest top GC riders these days are around 7-8kg lighter than Foss.

This is why i have always been utterly baffled that Jumbo took him onboard as a genuine GC hope. Either they had no idea what they were doing, or they were lying to him when they signed him. Because it's been quite clear that that was what he has always wanted to do, even talking about his dream of winning the TDF (himself), when he signed for Jumbo. Either they nurtured his illusion or they actually believed he could.

 

[Lequack]

He gone.

World-Champion Tobias Foss leaves Jumbo-Visma
"World time trial champion Tobias Foss will no longer compete for Jumbo-Visma as of 2024. He is currently preparing for the Giro d'Italia, where he should lead Primož Roglič to pink. Foss had doubts about his sporting future earlier this spring. He has since decided to leave the Dutch team after four seasons, multiple sources confirm to WielerFlits. "

Wereldkampioen Tobias Foss verlaat Jumbo-Visma, vier teams in de markt

Wereldkampioen tijdrijden Tobias Foss komt vanaf 2024 niet meer uit voor Jumbo-Visma. Hij is op dit moment in voorbereiding op de Giro d’Italia, waar hij Primož Roglič naar het roze moet leiden. Foss twijfelde eerder dit voorjaar al over zijn sportieve toekomst. Inmiddels heeft hij besloten om...

www.wielerflits.nl

 

[Red Rick]

He gone.

World-Champion Tobias Foss leaves Jumbo-Visma
"World time trial champion Tobias Foss will no longer compete for Jumbo-Visma as of 2024. He is currently preparing for the Giro d'Italia, where he should lead Primož Roglič to pink. Foss had doubts about his sporting future earlier this spring. He has since decided to leave the Dutch team after four seasons, multiple sources confirm to WielerFlits. "

Wereldkampioen Tobias Foss verlaat Jumbo-Visma, vier teams in de markt

Wereldkampioen tijdrijden Tobias Foss komt vanaf 2024 niet meer uit voor Jumbo-Visma. Hij is op dit moment in voorbereiding op de Giro d’Italia, waar hij Primož Roglič naar het roze moet leiden. Foss twijfelde eerder dit voorjaar al over zijn sportieve toekomst. Inmiddels heeft hij besloten om...

www.wielerflits.nl

To the surprise of nobody.

He probably still sees himself as a GT rider while with Jumbo he's never getting a chance and his price will have skyrocketed compared to what he's worth with Jumbo after winning the Worlds ITT.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Isnt he just the perfect "leader" on a team like Uno X? Pretty mediocre GT rider, but can hope to do some stuff in one week races

 

[Red Rick]

Isnt he just the perfect "leader" on a team like Uno X? Pretty mediocre GT rider, but can hope to do some stuff in one week races

Uno X themselves said he's too expensive for them and they're not in a position right now to build a GT squad.

Besides Foss is just not nearly good enough to build a GC team around like I still don't know what the guy is thinking. He can't even reliably wheelsuck his way to a 7th place. He doesn't score a lot of points, and it's not that much for a lack of chances either.

I read somewhere he's asking for huge money too, nothing about it makes sense to me.

 

[staubsauger]

Isnt he just the perfect "leader" on a team like Uno X? Pretty mediocre GT rider, but can hope to do some stuff in one week races

Yeah, he should've gone there and probably would've gotten a big enough paycheck as well at UnoX!

Even though team principal Haugland mentions on Wielerflits they have to take strategic choices and rather focus on classics. Sending Foss & Johanessen to week long stage races like Tour of Switzerland & Romandie certainly would benefit their points gain.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, he should've gone there and probably would've gotten a big enough paycheck as well at UnoX!

Even though team principal Haugland mentions on Wielerflits they have to take strategic choices and rather focus on classics. Sending Foss & Johanessen to week long stage races like Tour of Switzerland & Romandie certainly would benefit their points gain.

Foss has 0 WT top 10s in GC outside of that one Giro.

He drops minutes in the mountain stages even to the lesser GC riders.

 

[theyoungest]

Foss has 0 WT top 10s in GC outside of that one Giro.

He drops minutes in the mountain stages even to the lesser GC riders.

Even in that Giro where he finished 9th, he was towed over the line by Koen Bouwman. That's not the sign of a great GC talent. He has said that he's taking a gradual approach, and finding the right weight is an issue for him, but it seems he's only getting worse as a climber, and he wasn't great to begin with.

 

[staubsauger]

Foss has 0 WT top 10s in GC outside of that one Giro.

He drops minutes in the mountain stages even to the lesser GC riders.

Yeah, but Rohan Dennis has been 2nd in Switzerland.

Okay Dennis also tossed Tao to a Giro d'Italia win on the Stelvio!

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Giro 2020: Great result in the first ITT, but the team had to leave before the second one.

Giro 2021: Lost some time on the Sestola stage when Bennett was still the leader, but I don't think it cost him any GC positions in the end. He was 9th, but nowhere near the best riders.

Giro 2022: He was hit by a couple of crashes and Covid as well during the preparation for the race and never reached his best level. His TTs were still decent.

Do I believe he can come close to fighting for a GT podium with the optimum preparation? No.

As I understand it, he's struggled with finding the right weight to become a solid GC rider, and by now I can't see him overcoming the issues. However he's now proved that he can be a fantastic TTer on his day and a continued focus on that as well as on being a leader in one-week races and a useful domestique in GTs, looks like the best career path for him at the moment.

But if he wants to keep trying to become a GT leader for a few more years and/or accepting the biggest offer that comes his way, then that's his choice. and if it doesn't work out, then I'm sure there will always be a spot open for him at Uno-X.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He was team leader in Algarve for two years running. A short stage race, non WT, with only two uphill finishes and a long TT. You would think of all the stage races on the calendar, this one suits him to a T. He has not been able to get on the podium. He is still dragging the fame around of "Tour de l'Avenir winner" but people (pundits) fail to realise that that was in his fourth and final year as an U23. Guys his age (Bernal, Lambrecht, Sivakov...) had all left U23 racing long ago. Even the guys coming after him (Pogacar, Evenepoel) had already left or skipped U23. Pidcock crashed out, Van Wilder had a mechanical when he had dropped Foss. But those guys were 2 and 3 years younger. Last year's Avenir winner has already shown more as a climber and Ayuso who won Girobio already finished on the podium of the Vuelta. Those guys are 5 to 6 years younger. Foss turns 26 next month and i have a hard time believing he will be the next Froome or Wiggins who suddenly started scoring big at the age of 28, out of nowhere.

As i said before, i can understand this guy has a dream and it's difficult to give up on it, but unless he goes full Lance or Ricco, it's not going to happen for him. And i can't understand that Jumbo didn't see this before they signed him, and actually went along with it all these years. I think he was really skinny in the '21 Giro, but still finished nearly 12 minutes down in GC. So it's not just his weight that is the problem.

Imho he would be the perfect stagehunter. He can ride on his own, he's a strong boy, he can climb well enough to beat other climbers in the breakaway (who might suffer more in a long break). He can win an occasional TT. He could have a beautiful career if he stopped chasing rainbows.

 

[theyoungest]

He was team leader in Algarve for two years running. A short stage race, non WT, with only two uphill finishes and a long TT. You would think of all the stage races on the calendar, this one suits him to a T. He has not been able to get on the podium. He is still dragging the fame around of "Tour de l'Avenir winner" but people (pundits) fail to realise that that was in his fourth and final year as an U23. Guys his age (Bernal, Lambrecht, Sivakov...) had all left U23 racing long ago. Even the guys coming after him (Pogacar, Evenepoel) had already left or skipped U23. Pidcock crashed out, Van Wilder had a mechanical when he had dropped Foss. But those guys were 2 and 3 years younger. Last year's Avenir winner has already shown more as a climber and Ayuso who won Girobio already finished on the podium of the Vuelta. Those guys are 5 to 6 years younger. Foss turns 26 next month and i have a hard time believing he will be the next Froome or Wiggins who suddenly started scoring big at the age of 28, out of nowhere.

As i said before, i can understand this guy has a dream and it's difficult to give up on it, but unless he goes full Lance or Ricco, it's not going to happen for him. And i can't understand that Jumbo didn't see this before they signed him, and actually went along with it all these years. I think he was really skinny in the '21 Giro, but still finished nearly 12 minutes down in GC. So it's not just his weight that is the problem.

Imho he would be the perfect stagehunter. He can ride on his own, he's a strong boy, he can climb well enough to beat other climbers in the breakaway (who might suffer more in a long break). He can win an occasional TT. He could have a beautiful career if he stopped chasing rainbows.

You're a little bit obsessed with his 'undeserved' Tour de l'Avenir win. I don't think that he signed his new contract based on the fact that he's a former Avenir winner... but rather the fact that he, you know, became world champion. How's that for chasing rainbows?

As for Jumbo going along with his dreams, I don't know what they've seen in training that we haven't. And he has shown it in races, sometimes. Just this spring in Paris-Nice there suddenly was a stage where he was the best mountain domestique of the peloton... problem is, there were also a lot of stages where he clearly wasn't. If he gets it together, and finds some consistency, at least in one week races I think there's some potential.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You're a little bit obsessed with his 'undeserved' Tour de l'Avenir win. I don't think that he signed his new contract based on the fact that he's a former Avenir winner... but rather the fact that he, you know, became world champion. How's that for chasing rainbows?

As for Jumbo going along with his dreams, I don't know what they've seen in training that we haven't. And he has shown it in races, sometimes. Just this spring in Paris-Nice there suddenly was a stage where he was the best mountain domestique of the peloton... problem is, there were also a lot of stages where he clearly wasn't. If he gets it together, and finds some consistency, at least in one week races I think there's some potential.

Errrr... I didn't know he was a worldchampion in the U23. Well, i do know that he wasn't. I think we were all (at least i clearly was) discussing his potential as a GC rider. I have not mentioned his new contract for next year so i have no idea what you are on about.
I think you are a bit too obsessed with having to disagree with my posts that it makes you say some funny besides-the-point sht.
You might also reread what i wrote, as i specifically mentioned pundits.

If anything, his WCC TT has shown there is a different path for him besides going for GC. Basically validating my point. His performance in even the smaller GC races with a big TT as Algarve, show that he is too inconsistent at that level, both as a GC rider and as a TT specialist.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

He was team leader in Algarve for two years running. A short stage race, non WT, with only two uphill finishes and a long TT. You would think of all the stage races on the calendar, this one suits him to a T. He has not been able to get on the podium. He is still dragging the fame around of "Tour de l'Avenir winner" but people (pundits) fail to realise that that was in his fourth and final year as an U23. Guys his age (Bernal, Lambrecht, Sivakov...) had all left U23 racing long ago. Even the guys coming after him (Pogacar, Evenepoel) had already left or skipped U23. Pidcock crashed out, Van Wilder had a mechanical when he had dropped Foss. But those guys were 2 and 3 years younger.

Foss did also very well in Avenir the two years before he won it. Not many guys have 3 times been in the top 10 of Avenir. His 7th place in his second year u23 for example was pretty impressive for example.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Foss did also very well in Avenir the two years before he won it. Not many guys have 3 times been in the top 10 of Avenir. His 7th place in his second year u23 for example was pretty impressive for example.

That's because not many riders ride it 4 times.

I am not saying he is a bad rider. Just that his Avenir win is not really a reference when put into context. It certainly doesn't make him a future GT contender because of it. Even guys like Uijtdebroeks, Arensman, Van Wilder... who finished on the podium in their first try, still have to show they are up there. And there are more of those guys. They would all finish in the top 10 4 times if they rode it 4 times. And yet Foss turns 26 and has shown little as a GC prospect that was deemed to once be a top GT contender.

So i'm not saying he is a bad rider, just that i do not believe (have never believed) he has it to become a top GC rider. I do believe he could have a wonderful career if he sets different goals and i think he would be happier in the long run.