How Many Cyclists Were Actually Doping in Lance Era?

[mekapl03]

http://cyclingsdirtyera.com

Although Lance treated people very unfairly (to say the least) , it does make a good argument. The fact the UCI has not named a winner of any of these tours is absolutely rediculous.

 

[D-Queued]

http://cyclingsdirtyera.com

Although Lance treated people very unfairly (to say the least) , it does make a good argument. The fact the UCI has not named a winner of any of these tours is absolutely rediculous.

This "Don't Blame Lance" thing doesn't make a good argument at all.

This is poorly formatted and fundamentally misleading.

The whole thing appears to be an advertising scam leveraging interest in Lance ("Share This If You Believe Lance Was Treated Unfairly And Want An Official Winner.") .

The indicated people may have doped at another time in their careers. But, there is no proof that they were doping at the 1999 Tour de France.

And, it is logical that Zulle, Dufaux and Virenque may not have been doping given that the Festina Affair was from the previous year. We know that the speeds were down in 1999 which could be a result of less doping directly as a result of the Festina affair. Virenque is notorious, but even he could have been clean in 1999.

Finally, even if it is legit, which it almost certainly is not, and given that it is supposed to be about Lance, then it doesn't need a thread of its own

Dave.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That is one ugly site.

 

[42x16ss]

You say that it's ridiculous that the UCI hasn't named a winner, but, who should it be? Take 1999 for example. Jacky Durand was the Lanterne Rouge that year and he was a confirmed doper....

 

[SeriousSam]

Almost everyone, I'm pretty sure (defining doping as breaking the doping rules at any point during the Lance era). But there was probably a lot of variation in how often riders doped, how much they doped and how much of a performance boost they got out of it.

 

[vedrafjord]

I think once the EPO era became the transfusion era quite a few riders, especially no name flatland domestiques would have baulked at the logistics and scariness of doing bags. Obviously loads and loads of riders were caught up in Puerto etc but they were mostly star climbers.

 

[Tyr]

I find the "non-doper" label really misleading. I would prefer "never caught" or "got away with it".

 

[mikez]

Never ever, ever post anything in the clinic that could remotely be construed as portraying the evil Lance Armstrong as anything less than the most vile human being that has ever lived on the planet.

 

[King Boonen]

Lance was treated the way he was because he is a horrible bastard who thought he could beat the US Government. He rolled the dice, failed and got exactly what he deserved. It doesn't matter if no-one else is banned for life. There would be absolutely no positive from allowing Lance back into the sport.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

Never ever, ever post anything in the clinic that could remotely be construed as portraying the evil Lance Armstrong as anything less than the most vile human being that has ever lived on the planet.

I dare you to find someone in the cycling world who did anything worse than LA in recent memory.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Lance was treated the way he was because he is a horrible bastard who thought he could beat the US Government. He rolled the dice, failed and got exactly what he deserved. It doesn't matter if no-one else is banned for life. There would be absolutely no positive from allowing Lance back into the sport.

Don't agree that lance was treated that way because he was a horrible bastard.

He was the same horrible bastard 10 years ago and was by and large treated as a saint.

He got treated that way because he lost and became the scapegoat. and once they have their Piñata they beat on it like a rented mule.

 

[naviman]

Lance won them. If we remove Lance's victories then it is completely hypocritical not to for Pantani, Ullrich and Riis.

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Re:

Never ever, ever post anything in the clinic that could remotely be construed as portraying the evil Lance Armstrong as anything less than the most vile human being that has ever lived on the planet.

I dare you to find someone in the cycling world who did anything worse than LA in recent memory.

Does Saiz' near-killing of Manzano count? I'd say Saiz is at least as vile as Lance.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Never ever, ever post anything in the clinic that could remotely be construed as portraying the evil Lance Armstrong as anything less than the most vile human being that has ever lived on the planet.

I dare you to find someone in the cycling world who did anything worse than LA in recent memory.

Does Saiz' near-killing of Manzano count?

That was pretty bad, but due to negligence, not spite. Unlike, say, the public smearing of O'Reilly, the Andreu's, Walsh, Ballester etc, the intimidation/attempted bankrupting of Lemond, Hamilton and Landis, the fleecing of millions of $$$ from well meaning donors, the manipulation of the UCI....

Want me to keep going?

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Re:

Never ever, ever post anything in the clinic that could remotely be construed as portraying the evil Lance Armstrong as anything less than the most vile human being that has ever lived on the planet.

I dare you to find someone in the cycling world who did anything worse than LA in recent memory.

Does Saiz' near-killing of Manzano count?

That was pretty bad, but due to negligence, not spite. Unlike, say, the public smearing of O'Reilly, the Andreu's, Walsh, Ballester etc, the intimidation/attempted bankrupting of Lemond, Hamilton and Landis, the fleecing of millions of $$$ from well meaning donors, the manipulation of the UCI....

Want me to keep going?

No. As the O.P. said.....

 

[thrawn]

80+%

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Lance was treated the way he was because he is a horrible bastard who thought he could beat the US Government. He rolled the dice, failed and got exactly what he deserved. It doesn't matter if no-one else is banned for life. There would be absolutely no positive from allowing Lance back into the sport.

Don't agree that lance was treated that way because he was a horrible bastard.

He was the same horrible bastard 10 years ago and was by and large treated as a saint.

He got treated that way because he lost and became the scapegoat. and once they have their Piñata they beat on it like a rented mule.

I don't agree either. He would have slid on into the history books if he was like Indurain or even Ullrich. He was treated like a saint because there was little anyone could do, but as soon as the protection was gone and people got the courage up to testify he was done for. There were so many people to who both could and wanted to speak out about him because he's a horrible piece of work. There are no doubt just as many people who know about guys like Indurain, but the drive to expose him just isn't there.

 

[hrotha]

Saiz had nothing to do with Manzano.

 

[doperhopper]

http://cyclingsdirtyera.com

Although Lance treated people very unfairly (to say the least) , it does make a good argument. The fact the UCI has not named a winner of any of these tours is absolutely rediculous.

This "Don't Blame Lance" thing doesn't make a good argument at all.

This is poorly formatted and fundamentally misleading.

The whole thing appears to be an advertising scam leveraging interest in Lance ("Share This If You Believe Lance Was Treated Unfairly And Want An Official Winner.") .JimI

The indicated people may have doped at another time in their careers. But, there is no proof that they were doping at the 1999 Tour de France.

And, it is logical that Zulle, Dufaux and Virenque may not have been doping given that the Festina Affair was from the previous year. We know that the speeds were down in 1999 which could be a result of less doping directly as a result of the Festina affair. Virenque is notorious, but even he could have been clean in 1999.

Finally, even if it is legit, which it almost certainly is not, and given that it is supposed to be about Lance, then it doesn't need a thread of its own

Dave.

1999 edition was quite special - as Rudy Pevenage confessed, everybody was scared to death, so they were very cautious and conservative with Ullrich (not saying clean)... and here comes this supercharged guy never seen in the mountains and keeps playing with them. So, of course, they understood and next year everybody tried to keep up with the "New era" standard. But this bloody Ferrari's lab rat proved he's the best responder of all the megadopers of the decade.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re:

Saiz had nothing to do with Manzano.

Sssst, dont tell that to people who know nothing about doping in cycling.

But I dont agree with your stance of who was a worse doper. Armstrong was an a - hole but that doesnt mean he was the nastiest doper ever. He never was a drug runner in the peloton for instance.

 

[MarkvW]

Re:

Saiz had nothing to do with Manzano.

Yes. I just checked. I was wrong.

 

[TheGame]

http://cyclingsdirtyera.com

Although Lance treated people very unfairly (to say the least) , it does make a good argument. The fact the UCI has not named a winner of any of these tours is absolutely rediculous.

Is that you Max?

college geek triathlete builds website about lance and his level playing field. bless.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re:

Lance was treated the way he was because he is a horrible bastard who thought he could beat the US Government. He rolled the dice, failed and got exactly what he deserved. It doesn't matter if no-one else is banned for life. There would be absolutely no positive from allowing Lance back into the sport.

Actually, that would be Thom Wiesel that had no problem defrauding the U.S. Govt. He owns the American federation and got Verbruggen to back it too, so it sounds like a fail proof fraud scheme. And it was for a good, long while.

If only Wonderboy hadn't returned. If only...

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Only Lance, Tommy D, Vande Velde, Hamilton and Hesjedal were on the juice.
Mayby Ulle too, but thats it.

 

[IndianCyclist]

99% including those who did it "only once". Almost everybody was doing it in some way since they were not going to get caught