How the Giro organization helps doping

[tofino]

Take a look at the course profiles for these three stages at the Giro;

Stage 13-Friday, May 20 2011
Spilimbergo - Grossglockner 159 km

Stage 14-Saturday, May 21 2011
Lienz - Monte Zoncolan 210 km

Stage 15-Sunday, May 22 2011
Conegliano - Gardeccia-Val di Fassa 230 km

You can have epic racing and have stages under 180 with the amount of climbing in these stages. Forget the argument that these guys are pros the racing could still be very good but these stages are over the top. The guys in the groupetto will likely have to get charged up just to make the time cut. How many hours are the guys in the groupetto going to be doing each day?

The race organization has to see that they are part of the problem with stages like these three days back to back.

Or am I just getting soft in my old age?

 

[Berzin]

I definitely agree. They could have spread these types of stages around and shortened the overall kilometers per stage and had just an epic set of stages.

This is just ridiculous.

 

[Ferminal]

Do you have any quotes from dopers saying they did it to "beat the course"?

Here I thought the idea of doping was to beat the opposition.

Debate has been had previously in "The Giro is so hard it will encourage doping" thread.

 

[la.margna]

Take a look at the course profiles for these three stages at the Giro;

Stage 13-Friday, May 20 2011
Spilimbergo - Grossglockner 159 km

Stage 14-Saturday, May 21 2011
Lienz - Monte Zoncolan 210 km

Stage 15-Sunday, May 22 2011
Conegliano - Gardeccia-Val di Fassa 230 km

You can have epic racing and have stages under 180 with the amount of climbing in these stages. Forget the argument that these guys are pros the racing could still be very good but these stages are over the top. The guys in the groupetto will likely have to get charged up just to make the time cut. How many hours are the guys in the groupetto going to be doing each day?

The race organization has to see that they are part of the problem with stages like these three days back to back.

Or am I just getting soft in my old age?

so if we increase the 100m sprint to 150m or the hockey game from 60 to 90minutes or the marathon from 42km to 50km there will be more doping?

no comment...

people dope to win, not to survive... difficulty of a race or event plays NO ROLE AT ALL in this decision...

or are there for example less doped riders in a 3.5km ITT instead of a 35km ITT?

so and why do sprinters dope??? hmm??? because of epic extended sprints??!!

sorry, don't take it personal, but...

 

[Benotti69]

i agree with Ferminal. The riders race against each other not the course. They could tour the first 100km then race the last 80/100kms when the cameras get switched on.

stages were longer a long time ago on heavier bikes with less gears very little support worse roads etc......

If i remember correctly Merckx wouldn't let the racing start in certain stages and the peloton cruised the first part of the stage. I think Hinault had a similar attitude to controlling the stages.

 

[hrotha]

The tougher course may make it easier for a few riders to rationalize their own doping, but let's be clear here, they'd probably dope anyway. The problem is not the guys who dope to survive (although I suppose there must be some of those), the problem is the guys who dope to win, rising the level and forcing the rest of the peloton to dope, not to survive but to remain competitive.

I had hoped this would be about the Giro organizers looking the other way with small teams that animate the race, being hypocritical about Contador vs Riccò/Sella, etc.

 

[rhubroma]

This is a flawed logic. We all know that doping has existed for years, independent of course design.

It is wishful thinking that by making the courses easier, riders will less likely dope.

The only way to diminish the doping practice, is for law enforcement to go after the entire financial apparatus behind it. Which means the mafias, local and regional medics, the team management, etc. Then society also needs to be re-educated.

The former is difficult because of the political barriers, the latter because of cultural ones. It is thus an arduous task, which we can only hope the likes of Novinsky have some success at in the racket end of it. How to combat the omertà and human nature aspect of it, especially in today's society, is even more difficult.

In any case, attacking the courses won't change anything.

 

[thrawn]

Take a look at the course profiles for these three stages at the Giro;

Stage 13-Friday, May 20 2011
Spilimbergo - Grossglockner 159 km

Stage 14-Saturday, May 21 2011
Lienz - Monte Zoncolan 210 km

Stage 15-Sunday, May 22 2011
Conegliano - Gardeccia-Val di Fassa 230 km

You can have epic racing and have stages under 180 with the amount of climbing in these stages. Forget the argument that these guys are pros the racing could still be very good but these stages are over the top. The guys in the groupetto will likely have to get charged up just to make the time cut. How many hours are the guys in the groupetto going to be doing each day?

The race organization has to see that they are part of the problem with stages like these three days back to back.

Or am I just getting soft in my old age?

And 100m sprinters are the cleanest athletes on earth.

 

[JPM London]

There's an excellent interview with Zomegnan in the "official programme" that future publishing / ProCycling / Cyclingnews has done.

In it he's asked about the critique that the harder routes create more doping and I really like his answer. First of all he says what many posters have said here: It's the riders that create the race, the route is only the foundation. In other words - they could go slower. Next he also goes on to explain that in a day and age where all riders are able to do 60 kph the organisers have to develop the routes so that exciting racing and surprises can take place. It's all well and good if the riders want to attack, but if the course is not designed to allow it and give the opportunity, nothing is going to happen. He mentions stages from last year's giro that created excitement and also notes that if "80 riders arrive at the penultimate climb together as in last year's LBL, something's not right".

 

[biopass]

Take a look at the course profiles for these three stages at the Giro;

Stage 13-Friday, May 20 2011
Spilimbergo - Grossglockner 159 km

Stage 14-Saturday, May 21 2011
Lienz - Monte Zoncolan 210 km

Stage 15-Sunday, May 22 2011
Conegliano - Gardeccia-Val di Fassa 230 km

You can have epic racing and have stages under 180 with the amount of climbing in these stages. Forget the argument that these guys are pros the racing could still be very good but these stages are over the top. The guys in the groupetto will likely have to get charged up just to make the time cut. How many hours are the guys in the groupetto going to be doing each day?

The race organization has to see that they are part of the problem with stages like these three days back to back.

Or am I just getting soft in my old age?

If I remember correctly, the entire peloton didnt make the time cut at one stage in the 2006 Tour.

 

[Benotti69]

it all comes back to the riders. they have the real power if they so wish. If they felt stages were too long or too hard they can ride at their own pace. They nuetralised a stage in the Giro 2 years ago around Milan because they felt it was 2 dangerous. Canc basically nuetralised a stage in the TdF through the ardennes, so it comes back to the riders. They can decide.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

There is nothing that says that these stages have to be ridden at 43kmh.

The riders (teams/DSs) choose to race the way they race.


Did the parcours make this or did the riders make this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WRqxW9Jyt8