Hugh Carthy discussion thread

[TMP402]

Some mainstream recognition of Hugh Carthy's talent came today in Catalunya with another impressive ride for a 21 year old on a pro conti team.

In his second year, 2014, he was given a decent programme for a rider on a British conti team and took advantage. He won a stage and the Overall of the Tour de Korea, the polka dot jersey and 6th Overall at the Tour of Japan, and came 4th in the U23 national TT championships. In 2015, as he stepped up to the second division and a new environment he took a little time to adjust, DNFing several times (not helped by the fact Caja Rural entered a 63kg 6-footer into a number of cobbled races). But at the Tour of the Basque Country he found a place in the breakaway and picked up some mountain points. After that his results changed for the better; from 81st Overall at the Vuelta a Andalucía, he was suddenly 26th Overall at the Giro del Trentino, then 20th in the Giro dell'Appennino and 16th Overall at the Vuelta a Asturias. There was a setback - 74th Overall at the Volta a Portugal, but then in August he scored his first top-10, 9th Overall at the USA Pro Challenge, a result set up by a 3rd place finish on Stage 2, beating the likes of Kreuziger, Formolo, Arredondo and Brajkovič. He followed this up with 9th Overall in the Tour du Gévaudan Languedoc-Roussillon again taking impressive scalps, like Bardet and Elissonde. He also had another top 20 in a one-day race at the Giro dell'Emilia.

This season he's shown improvement with an 18th and a 14th place in two of the Vuelta a Mallorca one-day races. Yesterday he took 10th place on Stage 3 of the Volta a Catalunya and today backed it up with another impressive ride, moving into 9th in the overall standings and taking the youth classification from Formolo.

 

[Squire]

Remember reading a very good article about his Caja Rural adventures a couple of months back. Seems like a decent lad.

 

[Escarabajo]

I am impressed with this kid!

 

[Bushman]

Hugh result today

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

This thread was definately needed, great to see the Korea and Japan promise may be fulfilled, and still only 21. This should get him some real support and a quality calendar from Caja now.

 

[Gigs_98]

He looks very likeable and definitely is a great talent but I definitely will never root for a british youngstar again...I've learnt from my mistakes.

 

[TMP402]

He looks very likeable and definitely is a great talent but I definitely will never root for a british youngstar again...I've learnt from my mistakes.

Edmondson?

 

[PremierAndrew]

He looks very likeable and definitely is a great talent but I definitely will never root for a british youngstar again...I've learnt from my mistakes.

The yates twins?

 

[Kwibus]

He looks very likeable and definitely is a great talent but I definitely will never root for a british youngstar again...I've learnt from my mistakes.

Locke?

 

[TMP402]

He looks very likeable and definitely is a great talent but I definitely will never root for a british youngstar again...I've learnt from my mistakes.

Blythe?

 

[Gigs_98]

All of them, obviously

Edit: I guess newcomer would have been a better word than youngster

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yea, no way JTL counted as a youngster. Hugh does though.

Anyway, signing for a Spanish Pro Conti team was always an interesting move, but given his skillset not too bad an idea. I know Ryo scoffed at it saying he'd get no development, but really CJR are much better for giving chances to their extranjeros than a lot of Spanish ProConti teams over the years have been - let's not forget Michał Kwiatkowski got his start there, but also there's been a few of the Portuguese, with Andre Cardoso and Zé Gonçalves the most obvious, plus they took on Kyle Murphy as a stagiare last year. Sure, he got the traditional treatment of Spanish teams (the cobbled races and ones where they have no reasonable opportunity for victory will usually be allocated to outsiders with less interest in the domestic calendar, and young riders as a bit of a baptism of fire/test of strength, and as both an extranjero and a young rider Hugh was perhaps inevitably bound to be sent to these), racing a calendar not best suited to him last year but proving himself worthy of giving the opportunities to this year. I think he did pretty well in Andalucía, and is doing better here. If they do the same kind of calendar as last year he's certainly earning himself the opportunity to put himself in the window at a few places like the Route du Sud. If they don't want to risk him on the Vuelta yet he'll probably get to rider the Volta a Portugal which will be an acid test of recovery against the motorbikes.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Yea, no way JTL counted as a youngster. Hugh does though.

Anyway, signing for a Spanish Pro Conti team was always an interesting move, but given his skillset not too bad an idea. I know Ryo scoffed at it saying he'd get no development, but really CJR are much better for giving chances to their extranjeros than a lot of Spanish ProConti teams over the years have been - let's not forget Michał Kwiatkowski got his start there, but also there's been a few of the Portuguese, with Andre Cardoso and Zé Gonçalves the most obvious, plus they took on Kyle Murphy as a stagiare last year. Sure, he got the traditional treatment of Spanish teams (the cobbled races and ones where they have no reasonable opportunity for victory will usually be allocated to outsiders with less interest in the domestic calendar, and young riders as a bit of a baptism of fire/test of strength, and as both an extranjero and a young rider Hugh was perhaps inevitably bound to be sent to these), racing a calendar not best suited to him last year but proving himself worthy of giving the opportunities to this year. I think he did pretty well in Andalucía, and is doing better here. If they do the same kind of calendar as last year he's certainly earning himself the opportunity to put himself in the window at a few places like the Route du Sud. If they don't want to risk him on the Vuelta yet he'll probably get to rider the Volta a Portugal which will be an acid test of recovery against the motorbikes.

It makes a lot more sense to sign for Caja Rural than for One or any of the Brit Conti teams. At least he gets to ride a lot of races with climbs.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

It makes a lot more sense to sign for Caja Rural than for One or any of the Brit Conti teams. At least he gets to ride a lot of races with climbs.

It was not so much that the move was illogical, it's that it was unexpected. I mean, it isn't often that we see:
a) a young British talent being on the radar of a Spanish ProConti team
b) a Spanish ProConti team being the preferred development opportunity for a young British rider.

Most of the time young British riders, even if they flee the national scene, either step straight up to the pro level, most via Sky but those that aren't are with other Anglo teams, or go elsewhere, but as young British riders who are as climbing-biased as riders as Hugh is are few in number, we're more used to seeing North America or the Low Countries being the direction taken. Certainly he'll get a calendar better suited to his strengths with Caja Rural than ONE, because they'll get more World Tour and .HC invites, and last year he got to ride the kind of races he would have been doing with ONE anyway. Similarly, while Caja Rural have looked beyond Spanish borders plenty, the majority of the riders taken on from outside Spain have been either Portuguese (Manuel Cardoso, André Cardoso, Hernâni Brôco, Ricardo Vilela, Zé Gonçalves) or Latin American (Fabricio Ferrari, Heiner Parra, Yelko Gómez, Enzo Moyano), so them moving for Carthy was a bit unexpected even if he is the kind of rider who suits the kind of calendar they ride.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I agree with that entirely. As you are saying, the surprise part of him signing for Caja Rural is that young Brits don't head to Spain very often and Caja Rural doesn't look to sign Northern Europeans very often. But once you get past the fact that it's unusual, it does actually make a lot of sense. He's much better off there than with a PCT or CT Northern European outfit that has him out getting brutalised by big lumps in kermesses or with a team like Sky where he'd be a bottle fetcher for the next three or four years at least.

Caja Rural ride a calendar with way more climbing in it than any non-WT Northern European team and they'll react to having a random wonderkid on their books by letting him do whatever the hell he wants.

 

[ferryman]

Very exciting prospect. Caja Rural (the longenst sponser in cycling??) will be at the Vuelta. Let him ride for the experience. Won't be nice for him, but let him ride..

 

[jaylew]

He should frame this:

General classification after stage 4
# Rider Name (Country) Team Result
1 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team 19:01:43
2 Alberto Contador (Spa) Tinkoff Team 0:00:08
3 Richie Porte (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:00:17
4 Daniel Martin (Irl) Etixx - Quick-Step 0:00:24
5 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team 0:00:27
6 Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:00:32
7 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Team Katusha 0:00:42
8 Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky 0:00:46
9 Hugh Carthy (GBr) Caja Rural-Seguros RGA 0:01:01
10 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Cannondale Pro Cycling 0:01:16
11 Joaquin Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha 0:01:22
12 Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:01:32

Kinda reminds of me of that old Sesame Street song. "One of these things is not like the other..."

 

[TMP402]

This is crazy:

Hugh travelled to America and the USA Pro Challenge. Despite having a skeleton squad and limited resources, he finished 9th on GC and 2nd in the White Jersey competition. This was a jersey he would have won if he had a TT bike. With the Vuelta on at the same time, the team didn’t have the resources to take TT bikes all the way to America. Hugh was left riding a road bike, used by a smaller teammate.

http://www.ciclismointernacional.com/a-brit-abroad-a-year-in-the-life-of-hugh-carthy/

 

[Scarponi]

A pommy ending up at a mainly Spanish side is what cycling is about haha

 

[jaylew]

Re:

This is crazy:

Hugh travelled to America and the USA Pro Challenge. Despite having a skeleton squad and limited resources, he finished 9th on GC and 2nd in the White Jersey competition. This was a jersey he would have won if he had a TT bike. With the Vuelta on at the same time, the team didn’t have the resources to take TT bikes all the way to America. Hugh was left riding a road bike, used by a smaller teammate.

http://www.ciclismointernacional.com/a-brit-abroad-a-year-in-the-life-of-hugh-carthy/

Damn, he's skinny.

 

[del1962]

I remember when he won the TOK thinking wow thats impressive for a 19 year old, last year he seemed to struggle which is not unexpected for one so young, looking forward to how he does this season

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

He should frame this:

General classification after stage 4
# Rider Name (Country) Team Result
1 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team 19:01:43
2 Alberto Contador (Spa) Tinkoff Team 0:00:08
3 Richie Porte (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:00:17
4 Daniel Martin (Irl) Etixx - Quick-Step 0:00:24
5 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team 0:00:27
6 Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:00:32
7 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Team Katusha 0:00:42
8 Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky 0:00:46
9 Hugh Carthy (GBr) Caja Rural-Seguros RGA 0:01:01
10 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Cannondale Pro Cycling 0:01:16
11 Joaquin Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha 0:01:22
12 Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:01:32

Kinda reminds of me of that old Sesame Street song. "One of these things is not like the other..."

Brilliant achievement at this stage of his career, hope he looks after himself as he has big potential.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

I remember when he won the TOK thinking wow thats impressive for a 19 year old, last year he seemed to struggle which is not unexpected for one so young, looking forward to how he does this season

Also, as a development prospect and an extranjero he was never going to get any protected roles last year, they gave him a year to acclimatise and build experience in the "lesser" races the team does, País Vasco was the only WT gig he got; it's also something of a "rite of passage" sometimes for the young talents on Spanish teams to get shuffled off to do the northern races the team has few prospects in. Caja are trying to improve their calendar and produce a more rounded team as a result which meant doing the North American races, Norway etc. owing to the gap in the Spanish calendar between the end of the spring stage races in May and the Vuelta buildup races starting with the Basque one-dayers in late July. He finished the Volta a Portugal though, so he can recover pretty decently.

The good thing for Carthy is that if Caja Rural put him in the Vuelta, which they may, they aren't a team that puts big results pressure on young riders. They'll be very visible in hilly and intermediate stages with the likes of Zé Gonçalves and Ángel Madrazo, plus have multiple weapons for placements in reduced sprints even if stage wins are unlikely from the likes of Pello Bilbao and Carlos Barbero. David Arroyo is still likely to be their biggest GC interest, and so if he rides Hugh will either have the chance to just test his recovery and see how he adapts on the mountain stages, or come in with the bus early on and try and see what he can do in weeks 2 and 3 with some breakaways etc.. The guy's young, so let's not jump the gun just yet, but he looks like a natural climber with a lot of potential, in a team which isn't likely to overburden him at this point in time either.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Also, as a development prospect and an extranjero he was never going to get any protected roles last year, they gave him a year to acclimatise and build experience in the "lesser" races the team does, País Vasco was the only WT gig he got; it's also something of a "rite of passage" sometimes for the young talents on Spanish teams to get shuffled off to do the northern races the team has few prospects in.

This all begs the question: why does the team do these races they have little chance of winning and are probably a logistical/financial headache? I would ask if it's to please organisers, but I fail to see the connection between the ASO and a race like Nokere Koerse that Carthy did last year.

 

[WheelofGear]

He is going to look good in the Sky jersey next year.