Hypothetical Full *** Tour de France

[blackcat]

think this was a good enough post it deserved its own thread!
few left of centre inclusions...


(re: Wiggins, how could he live with himself as a fraud? -Benotti69)
I dont think Wiggins did anything different to others, so I think he will manage quite fine justifying it to himself.

but what I would like, is all of these riders being given the same inputs, and same resources and equipe behind them, in doping and off the bike, to July, and see who would win.

Ullrich Armstrong Contador AShleck ThomasDekker, Gesink, Rasmussen, Nibali, Basso, MAyo, Vino, Kashechkin, Vaughters, Evans Mcgee Wiggins Froome Rumsas Kloeden Landis Sastre, Pantani, JamieBurrow.

I would be putting my lot in with left of field selctions, not the traditional ones.

I think Rumsas, Kloeden and Landis would fight it out for the full *** TdF doping podium. Sorry Ullrich fans. Sorry Lance and Wiggins fans.

It would be one mighty race thats fo' shur

especially for JV, the 'crit limit is 60 for all those riders I named. full ***.

 

[the delgados]

Don't forget a doped up but sober Vandenbroucke.
He would routinely ride everyone off his wheel after returning to his hotel at 4 am.
I think he would have beaten everyone if he took the sport seriously.

 

[blackcat]

yep, forgot Frank. Think he goes into the podium mix with Kloeden Landis and Rumsas.

 

[noddy69]

Yellow full on list: the mentioned list IMO has people who were full on and didnt do it so gone with past winners in a historic doping Tour de Juice

1. Induran
2. Le Monde
3. Hinault
4.. Contador
5. Froome
6. Armstrong


Green full on

1. Kelly
2. Sagan
3. Zabel
4. Abdoujaporov
5. Maertens

 

[SeriousSam]

See the top picks of the doping draft..

In my opinion, it's Lance. No one has dominated both the time trials and the MTFs as consistently as Armstrong.

He's won at least one time trial in everyone of his 7 tours, except 2003, and often he won both and never was he worse than third. That's insane, and bettered only by Big Mig.
He's won a large amount of MTFs as well. There may have been times when someone like Pantani climbed better, but Lance never let off. He had almost no bad days. No one climbed better than him consistently.

Think 2013 Froome except better in both time trialling and climbing and not fading, and not *** up tactically, and being psychopatic.

 

[Benotti69]

think this was a good enough post it deserved its own thread!
few left of centre inclusions...


(re: Wiggins, how could he live with himself as a fraud? -Benotti69)
I dont think Wiggins did anything different to others, so I think he will manage quite fine justifying it to himself.

<snipped>

Wiggins did nothing different, except he told everyone that he was clean, now most of them do this when asked, but Wiggins went further with it on many occasions and that is the subtle difference and Wiggins is not the narcissist that only gives a fig for himself. While Wiggins is selfish, he is also fragile, hence the anger rather than cool calm narcissist fully believing he aint doing nothing wrong but playing the game!

Sorry BC if offtopic....

 

[robertmooreheadlane]

(re: Wiggins, how could he live with himself as a fraud? -Benotti69)
I dont think Wiggins did anything different to others, so I think he will manage quite fine justifying it to himself.

<snipped>[/quote]

Wiggins did nothing different, except he told everyone that he was clean, now most of them do this when asked, but Wiggins went further with it on many occasions and that is the subtle difference and Wiggins is not the narcissist that only gives a fig for himself. While Wiggins is selfish, he is also fragile, hence the anger rather than cool calm narcissist fully believing he aint doing nothing wrong but playing the game!


I dont think this is the case though and isn't with almost any top athlete in the sports world.

Whilst they are in the world they belong to, they don't actually, consciously believe they are doing anything wrong at all, most of them have been lying to themselves and justifying the actions they take for so long they actually believe what they are saying. Many like Millar were told by their surrogate families that what they were doing was both ok and safe and not wrong and thy believed it.
Most would sail through a polygraph test as they wouldn't need to have a reaction to the potential answers to any difficult questions as they don't see the answers as lying.
It is only when they leave the confines of the life they are in that they realise the right and wrong argument and start to think of it as a paradox if at all.
In one life they were cheating but so is everyone else so no harm no foul.
in their new life no-one cheats so now they don't either and so life goes on.

I think many people underestimate just how powerful the human mind can be and what we are capable of getting ourselves to believe if we want something strongly enough.

If you doubt any of this, or want to look further i would suggest looking at some research into cults and radical religious indoctrination, or military indoctrination around the world. Getting one human to believe something is so; even when his whole life has been guided to believe something different; is key to most cults and religious sects or getting most soldiers to be able to kill another human being.
Just an example of the power of the mind to control our version of reality.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Imagine an AICAR fuelled Lance, 6kg lighter for the climbs and with increased power for the time trials. Nobody would finish within minutes of him.

 

[blackcat]

think this was a good enough post it deserved its own thread!
few left of centre inclusions...


(re: Wiggins, how could he live with himself as a fraud? -Benotti69)
I dont think Wiggins did anything different to others, so I think he will manage quite fine justifying it to himself.

<snipped>

Wiggins did nothing different, except he told everyone that he was clean, now most of them do this when asked, but Wiggins went further with it on many occasions and that is the subtle difference and Wiggins is not the narcissist that only gives a fig for himself. While Wiggins is selfish, he is also fragile, hence the anger rather than cool calm narcissist fully believing he aint doing nothing wrong but playing the game!

Sorry BC if offtopic....

nah, dont be sry, threads are merely rivulets to take discussion where it transpires, i am reigning king of OT
"Take Bradley Wiggins for example, and his claim that he thought Lance Armstrong was clean up until the reasoned decision. I do have a little sympathy for him. While he's not particularly bright or articulate, if you read between his curse words it's clear that he has insecurities resulting from the fact that despite all the measures he took to win the Tour he wasn't even the strongest rider." - Floyd Landis highlights what he sees as the contradictions and hypocrisy within the sport.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

See the top picks of the doping draft..

In my opinion, it's Lance. No one has dominated both the time trials and the MTFs as consistently as Armstrong.

He's won at least one time trial in everyone of his 7 tours, except 2003, and often he won both and never was he worse than third. That's insane, and bettered only by Big Mig.
He's won a large amount of MTFs as well. There may have been times when someone like Pantani climbed better, but Lance never let off. He had almost no bad days. No one climbed better than him consistently.

Think 2013 Froome except better in both time trialling and climbing and not fading, and not **** up tactically, and being psychopatic.

The "fading" in '13 was pure PR: Dawg was so dominant/mutant/obvious that the world was crying "doper". So he acted tired and let Nairito take a few minutes back.

Lance 6kg lighter would have been quite amazing. Aicar BigMig would have been an ET: oh wait, he already was .

 

[noddy69]

Re:

Imagine an AICAR fuelled Lance, 6kg lighter for the climbs and with increased power for the time trials. Nobody would finish within minutes of him.

Imagine Big Mig 6 kg lighter...no contest....Unless you believe Le Monde didn't dope, then you have to factor in his going full on which hypothetically could mean he tops the list.

 

[the delgados]

Re: Re:

Imagine an AICAR fuelled Lance, 6kg lighter for the climbs and with increased power for the time trials. Nobody would finish within minutes of him.

Imagine Big Mig 6 kg lighter...no contest....Unless you believe Le Monde didn't dope, then you have to factor in his going full on which hypothetically could mean he tops the list.

Good point. Ply a clean Lemond with some modern-day next level *** and it would be a race between him and the motorbikes.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Do you think the parcours would have any effect? ie TT-heavy vs <7% gradient heavy vs 10%+ climb heavy tour?

 

[IndianCyclist]

Ullrich i think. He was a 42% HCT and from there to 63% will make him superman in tt + wt loss thru AICAR will make him fly

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

The Cobra is bemused at his absence from this discussion.

 

[Archibald]

Re:

Ullrich i think. He was a 42% HCT and from there to 63% will make him superman in tt + wt loss thru AICAR will make him fly

LA was 41 hct, no?
or was that Hamilton...

personally, I'd like to see Hinault on the same amount of gear as armstrong - punch on for sure as those two personalities collide

 

[D-Queued]

Re: Re:

See the top picks of the doping draft..

In my opinion, it's Lance. No one has dominated both the time trials and the MTFs as consistently as Armstrong.

He's won at least one time trial in everyone of his 7 tours, except 2003, and often he won both and never was he worse than third. That's insane, and bettered only by Big Mig.
He's won a large amount of MTFs as well. There may have been times when someone like Pantani climbed better, but Lance never let off. He had almost no bad days. No one climbed better than him consistently.

Think 2013 Froome except better in both time trialling and climbing and not fading, and not **** up tactically, and being psychopatic.

The "fading" in '13 was pure PR: Dawg was so dominant/mutant/obvious that the world was crying "doper". So he acted tired and let Nairito take a few minutes back.

Lance 6kg lighter would have been quite amazing. Aicar BigMig would have been an ET: oh wait, he already was .

And the crowd still chants

Eddy... Eddy... Eddy...

EPO + AICAR + HGH + Ferrari + + + = holy cow!!

He'd sweep all the jerseys all over again; maybe even all the stages this time.

Dave.

 

[Dr.Guess]

Haha, all the stages.
What about Bassons? Surely he'd be feeling it with a bit of juice. "Come om, just one race. Show them how it would have been!"

 

[skippythepinhead]

I'll say Mig. Nobody gets away in the mountains. At least one picture captioned, "Spectators dozing as Tour de France riders glide to the summit finish on Alpe d'Huez in record time." Comes down to the ITT.

 

[staubsauger]

Re:

Imagine an AICAR fuelled Lance, 6kg lighter for the climbs and with increased power for the time trials. Nobody would finish within minutes of him.

AICAR didn't work that well on Lance. Seen in 2009.

 

[the delgados]

Re: Re:

Imagine an AICAR fuelled Lance, 6kg lighter for the climbs and with increased power for the time trials. Nobody would finish within minutes of him.

AICAR didn't work that well on Lance. Seen in 2009.

Perhaps we need to take into account the pre-tour celebrity appearances and actor-dating into account. Maybe Armstrong got too cocky (never!) and thought he could just dope up with the next level *** and get on his bike and win Le Tour in 2009 with minimal preparation.
Keep him and Frank VDB in a room with a doping doctor/babysitter for three weeks and this hypothetical tour is wrapped up with a bow.
Only question is who beats who.

 

[mrhender]

The comeback podium was impressive... How could anyone imagine a 7-time TDF winner keeping hmself i shape for a poduim after two years...?

It was insane...

All though one could argue that his dominant persona and history did ensure him some advantages GC-wise...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

The comeback podium was impressive... How could anyone imagine a 7-time TDF winner keeping hmself i shape for a poduim after two years...?

It was insane...

All though one could argue that his dominant persona and history did ensure him some advantages GC-wise...

Such as a course that was so blatantly pandered to keeping him in contention it may as well have had Vince McMahon added to the design team?

 

[Freddythefrog]

I want Evgeni Berzin in the mix at the end of the first week and then destroying everyone on the Saturday mountain stage to go into Yellow. He can then do a press conference telling everyone about the rest of the race whilst outside Lance gets his crew to remove the motor from his bike so the next day he is stuffed. Berzin finishes 43 minutes down in Paris.

 

[LeindersGains]

Big Mig + Canc's bike in 2010 + Sky's weight loss methods.