I may be mistaken...

[benpounder]

but if Levi wins a stage in the Giro, won't he join Dave Z as the only other American to win in the three pillars of stage racing? Further, if he podiums, won't he be the first to stand atop all three grand tours?

Let us hope he fails - he is such a nice fellow to hate. /snark



snark on...

 

[benpounder]

(l'Alpe hit 500 today, I'm working towards 100)

LEVI WILL WIN THE GIRO!!!!


Flame on...

 

[mr. tibbs]

(l'Alpe hit 500 today, I'm working towards 100)

LEVI WILL WIN THE GIRO!!!!


Flame on...

Lol I actually posted somewhere that I think Leipheimer is the favorite for the Giro. I started thinking that a couple weeks ago, actually.

I think I came off wrong earlier, too; I'm not a personal fan of Leipheimer, but that's not why I made that post in the Stage 5 thread. I made that post b/c it's my opinion that Leipheimer, Horner, and Menchov hiding at the back of the Basso group w/out working was lame, especially since Leipheimer had a strong Lt. there and Menchov was obviously strong enough to come to the front and take a pull.

I was prompted to voice that opinion b/c someone (can't remember who) was singing the praises of the above guys, even calling Horner a "stud," when all he did was sit at the back. Sorry, man--I really didn't mean to start a bad vibe thing.

I just had an opinion, that's all.

 

[mr. tibbs]

P.s.: The TT showdown is going to be famous, i think. We know Leipheimer should be good for it, and Menchov seems to be in good form, but where is Basso at right now? He was making gains in time trials before his suspension, but they don't seem to be his strength these days.

Anywho, those are my pics for the final podium--I just don't know the order yet. (But after today, I'm def rooting for Basso. Mostly b/c he has the coolest kit. )

 

[benpounder]

...

No worrries mate...

 

[benpounder]

appropo to other threads, (and on my way to 100) I will expand...

The Lance circus is planned. While Di Luca et al want to distance themselves from Lance, Levi clings on. While the TV commentators and sportswriters, and many here, hang on Lances every move, his teammate solidifies his standing. I dont know if Levi will win the Giro (I hope so) but all attention thus far is on Lance, and will be for many days.

Yeah, both Bruyneel (and Riis) may have doped, but they are no dummies. So Lance fails to win the Giro (finishing in the top 20 i suspect), But just you wait for the Tour.

Except Contador will be there (or Levi, if Contador leaves Astana)... it is the perfect foil.

Funny that ones hatred of a man blinds them so.

 

[Returnofthewolf]

Lol I actually posted somewhere that I think Leipheimer is the favorite for the Giro. I started thinking that a couple weeks ago, actually.

I think I came off wrong earlier, too; I'm not a personal fan of Leipheimer, but that's not why I made that post in the Stage 5 thread. I made that post b/c it's my opinion that Leipheimer, Horner, and Menchov hiding at the back of the Basso group w/out working was lame, especially since Leipheimer had a strong Lt. there and Menchov was obviously strong enough to come to the front and take a pull.

I was prompted to voice that opinion b/c someone (can't remember who) was singing the praises of the above guys, even calling Horner a "stud," when all he did was sit at the back. Sorry, man--I really didn't mean to start a bad vibe thing.

I just had an opinion, that's all.

"all he did was sit at the back"

Making the final selection on an HC climb in a Grand Tour not only makes you a stud, it makes you a super bad *** mutherfukking STUD.

Anyway, IMO stage 16 may pose big problems for Levi, I hope not - but we will see...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

But still less of a stud than Basso and DiLuca who did all the real work. Right?

Still think Lance will try to win the Tour. But yes, JB isn't so stupid that if AC is way better from the get-go, or at least on Stage 7's climb, a lot of focus will shift to AC. As loyal as JB is to Lance, he's going to try to win.

Levi could very well win this Giro. I have mixed feelings about the guy. He's boring, but he's tried to do well and kept himself out of trouble for some time. He was also one of the very first riders to sign the anti-doping charter, long before his team. Though really little more than a symbolic gesture, it was still nice. But now being on Astana, and especially with Lance back, it seems as if Levi is selling himself out in a sense. Stage 16's profile is not to his style of riding but he tends to get stronger as GT's go. I think he has a great chance for the win.

Basso's TT was weak in T-A and Giro Trentino. But he may be getting stronger. Menchov should do quite well on Stage 12. Remember, this is a very technical TT, lots of up/down bends and turns. Riders having a test at it say it will be more like being on a long breakaway.

 

[Leopejo]

P.s.: The TT showdown is going to be famous, i think. We know Leipheimer should be good for it, and Menchov seems to be in good form, but where is Basso at right now? He was making gains in time trials before his suspension, but they don't seem to be his strength these days.

Nobody knows, but the few TTs he completed this year can't be taken as a reliable mark of his TT strength. He was recovering from his Tour of California injury when he had a disappointing TT in Tirreno - Adriatico, and he came from a very hard week of training at altitude when he disappointed in the Giro del Trentino TT.

It is true that in both races he was very good on the mountains - but at least in the case of Trentino it's understandable - after a training block of long days in the saddle full of long climbs, it's "easier" to fare well in a mountain stage than in a time trial.

 

[Leopejo]

About Levi, does anybody know what his schedule and his targets were at the start of the season?

Of the other four contenders after yesterday's stage:
- Basso targeted the Giro and only the Giro this year (though I still have hopes for Tour)
- Menchov targeted Giro and Tour, but Giro with much more focus than last year
- Sastre too is targeting both of those Tours
- Di Luca targeted classics (but without knowing if LPR would be invited) and Giro and who knows what afterwards

Menchov and Sastre have kept the lowest profile, Basso's all races have been training for the Giro, maybe Di Luca has been more "active" (has he?).

Instead, Levi's stage race wins started with Tour of California, continued with Vuelta Castilla y Leon (right?) and ended with Tour of the Gila (right, not on par with the other two). Do I recall correctly that Tour of California was a big target for him? After all, before his exploits and Lance's collarbone, the captains at Giro and Tour were to be Armstrong and Contador respectively.

My fear is that he has reached his peak and will find it difficult in the second half of the Giro - the opposite of Lance or a Simoni, just to make two names.

But I admit I haven't followed his season so much. Is my fear based in reality, or was his approach to the Giro the best possible?

 

[benpounder]

But still less of a stud than Basso and DiLuca who did all the real work.

using you as a foil l'Alpe...

Right?

The curse of Marco Pantani! You win with panache, you must be a doper.

Consider it. The winners of most major races in the past decade and half; convicted of doping, circumstantially accused of doping, or victims of circumstance. Tom Boonen's ride in Paris-Roubaix was impressive, so was Rebellin's Flèche Wallonne, but did Andy Schleck's Liège-Bastogne-Liège show real panache? Sure he won the thing, but mostly because everyone was soo afraid to chase him down for fear of dragging teammate Frank Schleck or host of other SaxoBank riders to the finish.

Now I am not a fan of the Schleck brothers, nor of SaxoBank, but I have to admit that they are a very good riders on a very strong team. Their team tactics won them Liège. Not impressively in my mind, but still a win. Armstrong, using similar tactics has earned him much derision, and the oft muttered moniker “doper”. Levi, employing similar tactics: “What a bore.”

I fell asleep during the early 90's TdF - there was no question that Indurain would not win. And how did he win? By hanging on in the climbs and destroying the field in the time-trials. His team, Banesto, protected him well.

I don’t mind others disliking riders I like, I just grow perturbed when the metrics they use to anoint greatness become so malleable.

 

[benpounder]

I posted this on another thread, and I dont want to start a new thread, but I think

this

is a video interview worth watching

 

[benpounder]

But I admit I haven't followed his season so much. Is my fear based in reality, or was his approach to the Giro the best possible?

No, his approach was not the best possible - if you follow the LA/JB playbook. But he is riding strong.

Funny that the fervent Lance haters so quidkly dismiss Levi - doesnt have the panache of Virenque - yet mock him for lacking the panache of... Indurain.

I am just surpirsed how far the taint of Lance's blood flows.

 

[robow7]

Levi is what he is. He's a man that knows his limitations and his strengths and probably gets as much as anyone out of what he was given. No flare but that's what the sprinters are for. If he could pull it off with all the stuff going on with the team presently, well, that would be stunning.

 

[BikeCentric]

We'll know after that first TT. In the Giro sticky thread I picked Levi for the overall, then said I would have picked Menchov if he was targeting the Giro (at that point he still said he was going to ride the Giro for Tour prep). Therefore I'm going with Menchov over Levi but it should be quite a battle. We can't count out Rogers either - again this TT is going to be great, and none of us have a clue how Basso will go! Not to mention Di Luca should lose time and of course he is climbing very well this first week.

Anyway, I'd love to see Levi get a stage win in this race and at least stand on the final GC podium. I think the final flat TT in Rome is Levi's best shot for a stage win. It's tough for him to win on mountaintops as he's a bit of a Cadel-like diesel climber and doesn't really have an uphill finishing sprint like Garzelli or The Killer. But a great all-around rider nonetheless.

 

[BikeCentric]

The curse of Marco Pantani! You win with panache, you must be a doper.

Consider it. The winners of most major races in the past decade and half; convicted of doping, circumstantially accused of doping, or victims of circumstance.

Oh I've considered it alright - it's the current state of the sport and yes it's sad. Still I don't think it's fair for us fans to turn on each other when some of us are more cynical than others. No, I think it's up to the pro level of the sport to earn back more credibility.

 

[BroDeal]

Levi is what he is. He's a man that knows his limitations and his strengths and probably gets as much as anyone out of what he was given.

What he was given...and then some.

 

[jaylew]

My fear is that he has reached his peak and will find it difficult in the second half of the Giro

Entirely possible. I actually brought the same thing up in anoher thread. The dearth of hard climbing stages in this Giro will definitely help him in that regard, though.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Good posts. Interesting the "curse of Pantani" and panache.

I found 5 of 7 of Lances Tour wins as dull as Indurain's. Though Mig's 1993 Tour win over Rominger was good, because Tony pushed him to his limit it seemed in Mig's prime. But they followed similar strategies, doing what it took to win using powerful teams. We love riders that go for it, even if they crash and burn, but the goal is to win.

Hard to say on Levi's season. Did he really peak at California? Or was everyone else really out of shape?

Contador really looked strong at Nice and Pais. Does that mean he peaked there?

Or can these guys "double" peak? Or will Contador try to "triple" peak and win the Vuelta as well?

So far, it seems to me only one rider has completely dedicated his season to the Vuelta = Sammy Sanchez. And considering it's the most mountainous of the three GT's this year, he seems right on target. Though at this point the Vuelta may be the only other race Valverde can ride.

I'd guess DiLuca will break for the summer, and prepare for the Worlds, and Giro di Lombardia - a race he's won in the past and suits him well.

Simoni actually won a mountain stage at the Vuelta Mexico. I'd say it looks like Sastre as much as anyone is riding himself into Tour contention. And perhaps Lance, yes. I think you were the one that said it Ben, he's a great poker player. It's hard to tell just what he's doing other than the obvious - he needs racing miles, and needs to lose some bulk. But what else? Will he get where he needs in time to lead Astana/Livestrong at the Tour? Or is his plan to deflect everything from Levi at the Giro and Contador at the Tour, and let them soar to victory and maybe pick up a stage win? We speculate back and forth and make wild guesses, and that's part of the fun of a forum on the internet, but the truth is, no one knows?