Il Lombardia 2025, monument, October 11

[Pippo_San]

Sort of true, but Del Toro needs to put his bravado in his back pocket earlier instead of later after Pogacar blows everything up. Isaac needs to do less and stop trying to be shadow to Pogacar. Lots of stuff I hate about Quinn Simmons just needlessly spreading himself all over the road aimlessly also apply to Del Toro who needs to back off and save some juice.
In my opinion the biggest failure for UAE and Del Toro is not turning his volume knob down sooner and getting him in a rainbow jersey at gravel worlds. He still could have enjoyed most of all this Italian adulation.
He only needed to taper a little to be there.
And Pogacar didn't need Del Toro for any of this. Guys like Vine, Sivakov, Torres, Majka all perfectly capable of doing all Tadej requires, which ain't much. Seems like most UAE riders are just place markers to force Pogacar to act human for longer periods.
Recent Move podcast, Johan Bruyneel looks at Strava data from Pogacar and others, same race stats and often Tadej is consuming @15-20+% less calories than other riders. And Pogacar often in the wind alone, while calorie count for other riders is while they are in the wheels get some draft.
It makes sense to have a full fire department in case something goes sideways for Pogacar, but fans, other racers are seeing it as a bit of overkill. My point is sure Del Toro had an impressive day ,so what he could have won somewhere else.. and as far as spending bullets.. Did today help Del Toro if he is indeed going to race Trofeo..no

Del Toro is just too young.
Let him develop. His engine just can't stand those distances as of now.
It's not like he's cooked, it's just his performances drop from epic level to top 10 level.

 

[fenns]

Massive difference between Remco and Pog is that Pog has a team around him tailored for these races. Remco doesn’t.

the major difference is that Pog climbs much better. The other stuff helps but only so much. He didn't have the UAE team at the worlds and europeans but the result was the same.

 

[Unchained]

So you know how Carapaz is? The accident against that wall was horrible.

Richard said that next year he wants to run a food truck and follow the races that way. Maybe soft serve yogurt or ice cream.

 

[postmanhat]

I don't think so. He's super strong for the kind of effort he made today, but climbing Ganda from the peloton is something else. I was very disappointed with his performance in Kigali, but maybe that was also about when he arrived and how he prepared.

Yeah Kigali was a big disappointment, but it was a ridiculously hard race which (apart from the big two), you'd have to target specifically. Hardly any who did well there, performed today. And because of his history/character, it's rare that Simmons does try to climb with the peleton in top form. No reason/evidence to think he can't, if given the chance?

 

[Red Rick]

Del Toro would hang on on a shorter course probably. Anyway, it wasn't only on flat that he was better than the rest today (as @Red Rick suggested).

I'm saying being the best rouleur in the world is what keeps him fresher than most at the base of Ganda, especially when you get a fast run in into the base with a fight for positioning to go with it.

He was together with Storer on the top of Ganda, had like 10s after the descent and put 1'30 into him in the end. Am I supposed to think he doesn't tire much less quickly than the other riders on flat sections and therefor the Ganda isn't perfectly indictative of current climbing shape?

 

[Unchained]

Del Toro is just too young.
Let him develop. His engine just can't stand those distances as of now.
It's not like he's cooked, it's just his performances drop from epic level to top 10 level.

I agree 100% and would add epic level is beating Wout, MVP, Remco, Pog and others, none of the wins in Del Toro's Italian dominance were against the very best.

 

[Cycling111]

Massive difference between Remco and Pog is that Pog has a team around him tailored for these races. Remco doesn’t.

We all lose from the strength of the superteams because people like Vine, Del Toro could actually be contending in these races rather than just supporting Pog and ensuring nobody can take him by surprise.

I guess Slovenia is better than Belgium 🙄 and you forget that Pogacar won a Tour and 3 stages without a team against a team that had Dumoulin, Giro winner, Krwiswijk, TdF podium the year before, Van Aert and Kuss as domestiques.
He didn't even have a Landa that finished fifth.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I'm saying being the best rouleur in the world is what keeps him fresher than most at the base of Ganda, especially when you get a fast run in into the base with a fight for positioning to go with it.

He was together with Storer on the top of Ganda, had like 10s after the descent and put 1'30 into him in the end. Am I supposed to think he doesn't tire much less quickly than the other riders on flat sections and therefor the Ganda isn't perfectly indictative of current climbing shape?

Evenepoel was leading the majority of the last climb so he lost more energy there than Storer. Besides, before the foot of Ganda both benefited from drafting (and there was like 1-2 km where the pace was crazy and Storer could lose more energy). It's pretty obvious that he's much better on flats that most guys (except few like Pog or MVP) and he gained there most of his gap but he was the second best today on the decisive climb as well.

 

[Red Rick]

Del Toro is just too young.

Riders needing time to be great in long distance races is such an archaic paradigm.

 

[Red Rick]

Evenepoel was leading the majority of the last climb so he lost more energy there than Storer. Besides, before the foot of Ganda both benefited from drafting (and there was like 1-2 km where the pace was crazy). It's pretty obvious that he's much better on flats that most guys (except few) but he was the second best today on climbs as well.

My point is that even when drafting the rouleur trait matters a lot. It's why he's been much more succesful in long races that have shorter hills with bigger flats inbetween than Il Lombardia.

 

[Salvarani]

Riders needing time to be great in long distance races is such an archaic paradigm.

Arguably 7th in Worlds and 5th here is pretty good.

Considering he has been racing every other day for well over a month.

 

[Netserk]

Yeah Kigali was a big disappointment, but it was a ridiculously hard race which (apart from the big two), you'd have to target specifically. Hardly any who did well there, performed today. And because of his history/character, it's rare that Simmons does try to climb with the peleton in top form. No reason/evidence to think he can't, if given the chance?

Until I see him actually climb like that, I won't believe it. All I've ever heard about how he trains and how I've seen him perform is about his diesel engine and more hilly or rolling terrain rather than a bazooka on a medium long climb.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Riders needing time to be great in long distance races is such an archaic paradigm.

Riders don‘t really need time, they just need training volume and a lot of 21 year-olds are doing less because their teams don‘t want to cook them completely when they can still develop.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

My point is that even when drafting the rouleur trait matters a lot. It's why he's been much more succesful in long races that have shorter hills with bigger flats inbetween than Il Lombardia.

You meant more generally, I get it. After a strong pace on very long flat/rolling section Evenepoel's chances vs pure climbers increase obviously. My point was that during this particular Lombardia it mattered less on the final climb.

 

[Invicituz]

What an extraordinary performance from Pogačar, becoming the first cyclist to win Lombardia five times consecutively, and tie with Coppi in achieving the most victories in this famous Monument. He is also the first rider since Merckx in 1971 to record wins in three Monuments, the Tour de France, and the World Title in the same year; his class knows no bounds.

 

[dobrien]

One thing Red Bull will know how to do is make him more aero. He may be spending some serious time in the F1 wind tunnel this offseason

I'm not sure how they can make the bullet even more aero than he already is, but if any team can do it it's RB!

 

[dobrien]

Simmons has had so many physical and psychological issues previously, that we only rarely saw glimpses of his talent, and he fell way down the pecking order at a team with similar riders/other priorities. Understandably, this season he's had to earn his results the hard way, and it's been great to watch.

If Lidl were smart, they'd make him a protected rider for a lot more races. Would easily have beaten Storer today riding from the peleton.

Fully agree with this; he has earned some protection with his riding this year. I think Lidl are a smart team and they are not going to be blind to his potential if he gets some help, especially after today. The guy has absolute balls, he's only 24, a fearlessly attacking rider, recovers really well, and today showed he has the engine for the long races. I would bet my house on him getting some very big results next year.

 

[Tim Cahill]

5th is a great result for a 21 year old to be fair, should have the capabilities to win these races in the next couple of years with his trajectory. Then again he isn't getting race leadership in a monument for maybe 5(?) years, no real need for it either as long as Pogacar stays upright. Hopefully they are showing Trofeo Matteotti in Mexico because the enthusiastic young fans over there are going to be seeing a lot of it.

 

[Sciatic]

Carapaz's crash didn't look very pleasant

True, but it was another fine demonstration of inadvertent bike parking (Wiggins remains the ultimate example)

 

[tigabara]

Hail to The King of Il Lombardia...

 

[Unchained]

I guess Slovenia is better than Belgium 🙄 and you forget that Pogacar won a Tour and 3 stages without a team against a team that had Dumoulin, Giro winner, Krwiswijk, TdF podium the year before, Van Aert and Kuss as domestiques.
He didn't even have a Landa that finished fifth.

I will get back to you on this.. All the beers..steak tar tar, curry ketchup, doner kebab..
maybe they have that or the equivalent in Slovenia, but until I confirm it,
Belgians way way ahead.
Plus Tom Boonen is from Belgium ..how can anyone beat that? They can't.
Plus in Belgium they have 5,6 kinds of choco..( Nutella) type stuff! They also have these plastic coffee filter things, come 6-8 to a box..you put the thing on top of your coffee cup, pour hot water through, great coffee, toss the thing.. No fuss and fantastic coffee.
Have you seen Lotte Kopecky race a bike? Slovenia has lots of catching up to do..

I am ex USNavy, try to act all manly ..macho type..
The Belgian ferry from Ostend to Dover was the most seasick I have ever been in my life..
So Belgium demanded my respect. I was a real nautical know it all until I crossed the North Sea..ain't no joke!
I am unaware if Slovenia is known for treacherous waters..
and to settle any argument about what country is better, Belgium has that little peeing statue thing in Brussels.. Only a top country has something like that.. I never heard of Pog's home having anything like that..

 

[Unchained]

Potomac, can you post a video or describe what a pleasant looking crash looks like? All mine have been of the unpleasant variety.. Lol

 

[Hugh Januss]

Simmons is very strong. It looked to me like he could have gotten 3rd if he had not pulled Storer back up to Remco right after he was caught by them. Storer was getting dropped at that point and Simmons accelerated around him to get back to Remco's wheel and brought Storer with him, then he blew up. Should have just stayed with Storer over the top and got a little moment of recovery, then worked on a way to beat him for third. Ah, hindsight!

 

[Hugh Januss]

When the motorcycle went by he was screaming that Del Toro or Yates crashed him intentionally..

I don't see how that could be, neither one would have been anywhere near him at that moment. If anyone cares you can go to 58:12 left on the feed as the camera bike is following Roglic and Alaphillipe as they begin the descent and you can see Carapaz crash right in front of them. It didn't look like there was anyone near him and Del Toro had to be a good 1:30 ahead that that point.

Edit: It appears that Carapaz went over the top just behind Landa and Scaroni and just in front of Roglic and Alaphillipe and then crashed on the first left hand sweeper. Didn't see Yates anywhere around.

 

[AmRacer]

Potomac, can you post a video or describe what a pleasant looking crash looks like? All mine have been of the unpleasant variety.. Lol

Highlights: Pogacar claims dramatic victory on Stage 2 after crash

Watch the highlights as Tadej Pogacar recovered from a crash to claim a dramatic victory on Stage 2 at the Giro d'Italia on Sunday afternoon. Stream top cycling action, including the Giro d'Italia, Tour de France and Vuelta a Espana, live and on-demand on Eurosport, the Eurosport app and discovery+

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