Imagine Petacchi Taking an Inhaler Hit Before a Sprint

May 20, 2010
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Venus Williams takes a hit from her inhaler for the second time in her first set of her first game at the Australian Open. She was seen two other times taking a hit during the same set. Using a inhaler that much would likely take her over the limit a TUE would allow.

Then in her second round match:



Here is Williams going off for a toilet break of for treatment from her trainer. Players aren't meant to be allowed in with anything for either but there again she has what looks like an inhaler. She got beat substantially in the previous set. Then she comes out magically rejuvenated to win the match.

Imagine with 30/20/15/10k to go Petacchi being photographed nipping back to the team car to take a breath from his inhaler and the furore it would cause. Tennis is truly in a mess when the rules can be broken so openly in front of an audience.

Thanks to: http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/
 
Oct 16, 2010
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euanli said:


Venus Williams takes a hit from her inhaler for the second time in her first set of her first game at the Australian Open. She was seen two other times taking a hit during the same set. Using a inhaler that much would likely take her over the limit a TUE would allow.

Then in her second round match:



Here is Williams going off for a toilet break of for treatment from her trainer. Players aren't meant to be allowed in with anything for either but there again she has what looks like an inhaler. She got beat substantially in the previous set. Then she comes out magically rejuvenated to win the match.

Imagine with 30/20/15/10k to go Petacchi being photographed nipping back to the team car to take a breath from his inhaler and the furore it would cause. Tennis is truly in a mess when the rules can be broken so openly in front of an audience.

Thanks to: http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/
quality observations.
Tennis is indeed in a sorry state. Doping is rife. Look how a young lad of the likes of Nadal is running, sprinting, growing muscles, winning ****loads of money, but, just as importantly, bringing in ****loads of money for others, such as the ATP (i.e. those who sell tennis as a product), as they profit immensely from the Nadal-Federer rivalry.
I guess Federer is likely to be a juicer as well (and so is his countryman Wrawrinka, a talentless player who's having a recent winning streak).
But Nadal, and Spanish gravelplayers of the likes of Ferrer, probably benefit from the dope more, cuz their game really evolves around stamina, fitness, and strength (if these aren't synonymous) much more than around touch/talent.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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Brilliant and timely

We cycling fans regularly wail and rail against our "heroes" on these forums and often for good reason, but, I, for one, am no longer taking criticism from fans of any other "sport"... I use "sport" for those residents of locations where "World" championships are limited to their own country of residence and/or those "sports" are rugby/aussie rules types sports for people who are scared of bruising or rounders played by blokes........
 
Aug 4, 2009
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hrotha said:
Are weakened knees commonly asociated with steroid use?
Cortisone inhalers are a real issue with bone dencity so yes. but taking a puff before a sprint will only increace the heart rate3 and will NOT do anything for the sprinting power. If he has astmah attack then it will help him breath better in his sprint. If he has a bad astmah attack he could drop dead in the sprint if he didnt get his puffer.
Ventolin can be used outside sport to burn fat just as Clenbuterol.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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I have said before, as bad as the UCI is, the ITF (International Tennis Federation) is worse. I guess they are "smarter" however. The ITF tries much harder to NOT catch their top draws.

Yes, Nadal is about as likely a doper as was Armstrong (99.9% chance). There have been a few journalists who have raised their suspicions on Nadal (and other suspicious tennis players), but they do it with kid gloves, and don't follow up with pointed questions. Nadal's fans go beserk if you raise your suspicions in the tennis forums (and your postings WILL be deleted).

The Omerta IS stronger in tennis than cycling. Most cycling fans are of the view of "most of the elite performers are doing it, but I will ignore it and try to enjoy cycling anyway". In tennis, most fans are adamant believers that their "hero" is clean. It really is quite pathetic that there are so many ADOLESCENT SUCKERS following tennis.
 
hrotha said:
Are weakened knees commonly asociated with steroid use?
This sentence fits so perfectly into the discussion. The sport in the op is tennis. One guy i can think of who has serious knee problems is Nadal. Nadals sport is tennis.

There are many reasons to suspect Nadal, is a doper.

These include
1 links to fuentes
2 Superhuman recovery from extreme fatigue - attributed by commentators as simply training harder than everyone else (sound familiar?)
3 Totaly denies existance of doping in his sport despite previous cases, claiming only bad sports like cycling have it.
4 Opposes testing

And yes i get it. None of this is evidence. But thats not my fault. We are dealing with a sport with a far deeper omerta (we know there are far less tests and previous positive tests have been covered up). When tennis starts taking doping seriously, ill add more substance to my accusations. So long as they dont test and claim to be super clean, i have to rely on smaller details like those above.


Anyway point is, Nadal is probably a doper. And he has bad knee problems.

I probably could have just typed these last 2 sentences and done without the previous 3 paragraphs, but its too late now, so what the hell.:)
 
Jul 13, 2010
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euanli said:


Venus Williams takes a hit from her inhaler for the second time in her first set of her first game at the Australian Open. She was seen two other times taking a hit during the same set. Using a inhaler that much would likely take her over the limit a TUE would allow.

Then in her second round match:



Here is Williams going off for a toilet break of for treatment from her trainer. Players aren't meant to be allowed in with anything for either but there again she has what looks like an inhaler. She got beat substantially in the previous set. Then she comes out magically rejuvenated to win the match.

Imagine with 30/20/15/10k to go Petacchi being photographed nipping back to the team car to take a breath from his inhaler and the furore it would cause. Tennis is truly in a mess when the rules can be broken so openly in front of an audience.

Thanks to: http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/
I race with an inhaler in my pocket and suck on it about five minutes before the start of a race and anytime during a race I have bronchospasm. This is a competitive disadvantage as it means I am not taking a drink, following an attack or putting sh*tbirds who think my asthma medication is performance enhancing in the gutter. Taking multiple puffs of an inhaler is exactly what you would do if you had a flare up of asthma due to allergens, virus or bad luck. And it wouldn't help if you didn't have some kind of bronchial flare. Salbutamol might have a performance enhancing role in the non-asthmatic, but not taking it like that, more like a supra-therapeutic post-exercise IV bolus. Taking 6 (or 20) puffs would not risk putting you over the edge of a TUE. It just wouldn't. I had more than that as a child with severe asthma. Tennis might have a bunch of problems: Were Nadal or Ferrer involved in Puerto? Is Jim Courier mentally deficient or just inane? Will Federer cry if Djokovic steals his towel? These problems won't be solved by denying athletes medication for asthma and creating a storm in a teacup about perfectly normal administration of medication.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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Realist said:
I race with an inhaler in my pocket and suck on it about five minutes before the start of a race and anytime during a race I have bronchospasm. This is a competitive disadvantage as it means I am not taking a drink, following an attack or putting sh*tbirds who think my asthma medication is performance enhancing in the gutter. Taking multiple puffs of an inhaler is exactly what you would do if you had a flare up of asthma due to allergens, virus or bad luck. And it wouldn't help if you didn't have some kind of bronchial flare. Salbutamol might have a performance enhancing role in the non-asthmatic, but not taking it like that, more like a supra-therapeutic post-exercise IV bolus. Taking 6 (or 20) puffs would not risk putting you over the edge of a TUE. It just wouldn't. I had more than that as a child with severe asthma.

If it isn't performance enhancing, then you wouldn't see it's widespread use in athletes (not more than the general public). Although I don't have the statistics, I have heard that a fairly large number of athletes apply for a TUE for asthma meds.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Andynonomous said:
If it isn't performance enhancing, then you wouldn't see it's widespread use in athletes (not more than the general public). Although I don't have the statistics, I have heard that a fairly large number of athletes apply for a TUE for asthma meds.

Funnily enough, this is quoted on Livestrong.com


In a study published in 1998 in the "Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology," researchers studying athletes at the 1996 Olympic Games found that U.S. athletes participating in cycling and mountain biking had the highest rate of asthma. A later study published in the June 2006 issue of the "Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness" tested the pulmonary function of a professional cycling team and found that 72 percent of the subjects had upper airway or bronchial symptoms.


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/227594-asthma-cycling/#ixzz1CILHLWBi
Or better yet, read this CN article from 2001
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/jun01/jun17news.php
 
Jul 13, 2010
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Andynonomous said:
If it isn't performance enhancing, then you wouldn't see it's widespread use in athletes (not more than the general public). Although I don't have the statistics, I have heard that a fairly large number of athletes apply for a TUE for asthma meds.
It is performance enhancing in supra-therapeutic doses, but when used like a normal asthma medication it only gets you back to baseline (tennis pun anyone?). It is common for asthmatics to be encouraged to stay fit to control their asthma so they are overrepresented in many sports. All other things equal, you would hence expect there to be more athletes with asthma in the elites too. The other thing is, Asthma that is sub-threshold for clinical significance in the normal population will be highly significant in an elite athlete. Therefore there will be a bias in diagnosis in favor of athletes. I am not denying that there will be athletes with TUE's who should not have them, who take salbutamol because they feel it will give them a small edge, or who use a TUE to provide an excuse for a positive if they have a supra-therapeutic level in their system. The thing is, the use that the OP referred to doesn't seem anything like this. It seems more like exactly what you would expect from an asthmatic who is taking there medication to ensure they can perform normally. I worry that focusing on something like this (i) jeopardizes the ability of me and other asthmatics to participate in sport because it might lead to a change in the TUE system and (ii) neglects the real problems - EPO, test, HGH, cortico's, autologous transfusions, omerta and corrupt officials.

Now if we are going to talk about WADA legal drugs that are being abused, asthma drugs are not the place to look: someone needs to look into the acute administration of Bupropion to extend exercise in the heat. There is a cracking story and a potential danger to athlete's lives.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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Realist said:
Now if we are going to talk about WADA legal drugs that are being abused, asthma drugs are not the place to look: someone needs to look into the acute administration of Bupropion to extend exercise in the heat. There is a cracking story and a potential danger to athlete's lives.
Nb: WADA have this on the monitoring list but I can't see why it isn't illegal straight up.
 
May 20, 2010
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The point is the rules get flaunted so openly in tennis.

As all the major stars complaining of fatigue in the small tournaments and then a week later suddenly having massive stamina for the Grand Slams. As that blog says, Nadal said he was going to miss his next dope test. And sure enough he did.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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euanli said:
The point is the rules get flaunted so openly in tennis.

As all the major stars complaining of fatigue in the small tournaments and then a week later suddenly having massive stamina for the Grand Slams. As that blog says, Nadal said he was going to miss his next dope test. And sure enough he did.
The point is that the instance the OP points to is not a violation of the WADA rules unless the player does not have a TUE. If Nadal is missing dope tests that is a big deal for the sport and something that should be dealt with. If there are dope tests being missed I don't know why the OP didn't use that example, instead of asthma treatment which is consistent with legitimate therapeutic goals.

(Also I thought this was a cycling forum... but whatever... I guess this is interesting too.)
 
May 20, 2010
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There are WADA rules and their are tennis rules. The second picture clearly shows Williams taking an inhaler into her bathroom break or with her for treatment from her trainer. This is against the rules.

The cycling connection is that Petacchi was done for taking something like 6 hits in one day on a Salbutamol inhaler resulting in a result twice what was allowed in his TUE.

This is not an attack on cyclists who many have legitimate use of an inhaler during a race. But a small comparison between how different two sports are managed and seen.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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euanli said:
There are WADA rules and their are tennis rules. The second picture clearly shows Williams taking an inhaler into her bathroom break or with her for treatment from her trainer. This is against the rules.

The cycling connection is that Petacchi was done for taking something like 6 hits in one day on a Salbutamol inhaler resulting in a result twice what was allowed in his TUE.

This is not an attack on cyclists who many have legitimate use of an inhaler during a race. But a small comparison between how different two sports are managed and seen.
You think Williams needs her trainer to administer her inhaler? The rule I know of is that you are not allowed more than one medical timeout. The rule is under the 'continuity of play' section. If taking an inhaler (or drinking sports drink, self-massage, stretching, etc) does not lead to a breach of continuity of play and does not require medical staff then I don't see how it breaches the rules. Is there another rule I am missing?

To summarise: legal drug, does not lead to breach of continuity of play rules, does not require outside supervision or input for use, used in the expected manner for an asthmatic athlete.

Go catch a real cheat.
 
May 2, 2010
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The Hitch said:
This sentence fits so perfectly into the discussion. The sport in the op is tennis. One guy i can think of who has serious knee problems is Nadal. Nadals sport is tennis.

There are many reasons to suspect Nadal, is a doper.

These include
1 links to fuentes
2 Superhuman recovery from extreme fatigue - attributed by commentators as simply training harder than everyone else (sound familiar?)
3 Totaly denies existance of doping in his sport despite previous cases, claiming only bad sports like cycling have it.
4 Opposes testing

And yes i get it. None of this is evidence. But thats not my fault. We are dealing with a sport with a far deeper omerta (we know there are far less tests and previous positive tests have been covered up). When tennis starts taking doping seriously, ill add more substance to my accusations. So long as they dont test and claim to be super clean, i have to rely on smaller details like those above.


Anyway point is, Nadal is probably a doper. And he has bad knee problems.

I probably could have just typed these last 2 sentences and done without the previous 3 paragraphs, but its too late now, so what the hell.:)
In regards to point 2, there have been rumors (started by Nadal's camp I think) that in the off-season, and after coming back from one of his knee injuries, that he was training for 12+ hours a day. If this was true, then maybe it is possible that he does train harder. This could still actually be a result of using PEDS. As a quote from the link the OP gave explains nicely: "You can tell when someone has been on steroids," he said… A guy bulks up, has a new body and never gets tired.”
He said athletes on steroids…heal more quickly after an injury, recover faster after grueling matches and work much harder during training.

“You see these guys or girls who come onto the tour talking about their new training programs and their diets where they eat this or that new thing…but they’ll never tell you about the drugs they took."
- John McEnroe, 1992

I don't know if it is a deeper omerta in tennis, or if because it is such an individual game all doping programs would be individual.

One interesting thing the blogger seemed to have missed at the Australian Open was the Nalbandian vs Hewitt match. Twice during the match Nalbandian looked to be struggling with cramp. Twice, his own personal trainer sitting in the stands left his seat and gave a tablet of some kind to one of the ball boys to give to Nalbandian, after which he started moving better. I was always under the impression that only the official ATP trainers were allowed to provide any meds to a player during a match. Does anybody know if this has changed? I'm not saying that he was necessarily given something that wasn't allowed, but I think it goes to show how easy it would be able to do it during a match.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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thrawn said:
In regards to point 2, there have been rumors (started by Nadal's camp I think) that in the off-season, and after coming back from one of his knee injuries, that he was training for 12+ hours a day. If this was true, then maybe it is possible that he does train harder. This could still actually be a result of using PEDS.

Interestingly this was said by an Argentinian Tennis player (David Nalbandian) to defend Nadal against the charge that he uses PEDs :


"Whatever he does, is pure energy. He's tremendous, just tremendous. The energy that he has to play a Grand Slam final is the same energy that he puts into playing Playstation, into eating a plate of pasta, into going for a walk, into talking about cars [formula 1] or football. He's tremendous. To me, he's a totally gifted person.Rafa doesn't sleep. I swear to you that Rafa doesn't sleep. He's up till 2 am either on the Playstation or doing physio work. The other day, he was up at 9am, played 18 holes (golf), then come back and trained, then played soccer in the evening. He's tremendous. I could probably try to follow [his rhythm] for 1, maybe 2 days, then I will be tired in bed, but this guy keeps going, every day, the same. People used to say 'with Rafa, it's doping, surely...' It was frequently debated. And people would ask me, and I'd say, 'you think that because you don't know him. You spend some time with the guy and you realize that he's like [the energizer bunny] 24 hours a day.'"


Unfortunately Mr. Nalbandian is describing the actions of someone who would be using PEDs in their training regime (stimulants ?, Clenbuturol ?).
So instead of defending Nadal, he is giving more circumstantial evidence against him.
 
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