Improving the TDU

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Jan 24, 2010
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Didn't any of you watch stage 5 of the TDU on Saturday? If you dont call that racing, then what do you call racing?

Ok, so the race is mainly a sprinters race, and a TT would be nice, but logistically, the TT is never going to happen.

The benifit of having the event in Adelaide is the cyclists and teams all have a base and are not moving from town to town and travelling large distances every day. Australia is not like Euro countires where major towns and cities are a couple of hours away. To drive to Melbourne is 8 hours and to drive to Sydney is pushing 15. Yes flying is a lot quicker, but more logistical.

Adelaide (South Australia) does not have mountains as such, but there are some good short climbs, and the TDU has not even been up to Mt Lofty via Greenhill road or the Freeway or even gone up Norton Summit (these climbs push 8-10km in length),I am not sure why it hasn't, but maybe it will in the future. What about the corkscrew???

I can't beleive how many people bag this event. It is one of the most organised events in world cycling, the teams and cyclists love coming here and there is good racing. Why do people compare this to a grand tour, because it is not a grand tour, and inappropriate to compare it to one.

This event has grown over the last 12 years from a low catagorised race to a Pro Tour Race.

Yes it would be nice for more non sprinters to be up in the GC and stage winners, and I do agree that a nice hill top finish would be fantastic, but it is still a good event and does attract quaility riders.

Yes the govt/organisers pay, but I would think this event is not alone in this.

Instead of bagging the event and saying it should be moved interstate, why dont you come over here and watch the race and support the event and cycling in Australia.
 
I'll go easy on you because it your first post. However the TDU is just training. I know you aussies get very protective about your country but you need to loose the chip. The TDU is not a bad event but just don't over hype it beyond what it is. Its a celebrity race at best. Next year the government won't pay for Armstrong to make the flight and the best you'll have to do with is a bunch of mid pack cyclists and aussie pros. Thats ok but its not Europe and nor will it ever be. The reason they don't show the race live is because between the start and the end nothing happens on the flat lands. The race will be dead in around 3-4 years or at least be downgraded to 1.3.

Yes I watched stage 5 and that was good but it was hardly racing. They should have finished the race on Old Wa+kers Hill not flat panned it into the end. But 1 hour racing out of 40 doesn't constitute excitement.

As per your driving analogy - you're stupid. Have you ever driven in Europe or France? The distances are the same as Australia but the difference is that drive in France or Italy and the countryside, the land and the scenery is simply stunning. Beautiful. To die for. In Australia its dry, baron wasteland and no one wants to see that. Not even 3 million dollar man.

To put it in another context. If Australia toured France and played France at cricket you'd laugh your socks off. Same for us. We laugh at you... but only on the inside because we know what a sensitive bunch you are. :rolleyes:

knackers said:
Didn't any of you watch stage 5 of the TDU on Saturday? If you dont call that racing, then what do you call racing?

Ok, so the race is mainly a sprinters race, and a TT would be nice, but logistically, the TT is never going to happen.

The benifit of having the event in Adelaide is the cyclists and teams all have a base and are not moving from town to town and travelling large distances every day. Australia is not like Euro countires where major towns and cities are a couple of hours away. To drive to Melbourne is 8 hours and to drive to Sydney is pushing 15. Yes flying is a lot quicker, but more logistical.

Adelaide (South Australia) does not have mountains as such, but there are some good short climbs, and the TDU has not even been up to Mt Lofty via Greenhill road or the Freeway or even gone up Norton Summit (these climbs push 8-10km in length),I am not sure why it hasn't, but maybe it will in the future. What about the corkscrew???

I can't beleive how many people bag this event. It is one of the most organised events in world cycling, the teams and cyclists love coming here and there is good racing. Why do people compare this to a grand tour, because it is not a grand tour, and inappropriate to compare it to one.

This event has grown over the last 12 years from a low catagorised race to a Pro Tour Race.

Yes it would be nice for more non sprinters to be up in the GC and stage winners, and I do agree that a nice hill top finish would be fantastic, but it is still a good event and does attract quaility riders.

Yes the govt/organisers pay, but I would think this event is not alone in this.

Instead of bagging the event and saying it should be moved interstate, why dont you come over here and watch the race and support the event and cycling in Australia.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Ferminal said:
I think the whole idea is that they don't want to go over 150km. No doubt they could do a 220km epic and go over 6 hills, but I'm not sure the teams want that kind of racing in January.

If you can guarantee a class field like this year it might be an option. But if they can't get world class GC riders, they might as well satisfy the big sprinters.
+1.

The teams just want some long base miles in the sun, and then let the sprinters do their thing to tune up, and get some tv exposure for their sponsors. Make it too hard and they'll all just stay and trundle around Girona. So I guess the options are accept it for what it is and see some bike racing on TV in January, or lose it altogether, as if the big teams stay away TV won't show it anyway.
 
Hibbles said:
+1.

The teams just want some long base miles in the sun, and then let the sprinters do their thing to tune up, and get some tv exposure for their sponsors. Make it too hard and they'll all just stay and trundle around Girona. So I guess the options are accept it for what it is and see some bike racing on TV in January, or lose it altogether, as if the big teams stay away TV won't show it anyway.
Every rider get a free First Class ticket also. So bung the wife/girlfriend in coach and let her go do some shopping/sightseeing and write it off as a holiday.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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thehog said:
I'll go easy on you because it your first post. However the TDU is just training. I know you aussies get very protective about your country but you need to loose the chip. The TDU is not a bad event but just don't over hype it beyond what it is. Its a celebrity race at best. Next year the government won't pay for Armstrong to make the flight and the best you'll have to do with is a bunch of mid pack cyclists and aussie pros. Thats ok but its not Europe and nor will it ever be. The reason they don't show the race live is because between the start and the end nothing happens on the flat lands. The race will be dead in around 3-4 years or at least be downgraded to 1.3.

Yes I watched stage 5 and that was good but it was hardly racing. They should have finished the race on Old Wa+kers Hill not flat panned it into the end. But 1 hour racing out of 40 doesn't constitute excitement.

As per your driving analogy - you're stupid. Have you ever driven in Europe or France? The distances are the same as Australia but the difference is that drive in France or Italy and the countryside, the land and the scenery is simply stunning. Beautiful. To die for. In Australia its dry, baron wasteland and no one wants to see that. Not even 3 million dollar man.

To put it in another context. If Australia toured France and played France at cricket you'd laugh your socks off. Same for us. We laugh at you... but only on the inside because we know what a sensitive bunch you are. :rolleyes:
I will bold the parts i diasagree with you. you seriosuly don't have clue about australia or about it's people.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
I will bold the parts i diasagree with you. you seriosuly don't have clue about australia or about it's people.
But I do. If the country is so amazing then why does it need to buy cyclists with first class tickets & 3 million for one rider? Thats chip is big my friend.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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thehog said:
But I do. If the country is so amazing then why does it need to buy cyclists with first class tickets & 3 million for one rider? Thats chip is big my friend.
because he is a draw card and for the cycling season it doesn't fit in with him that well so they payes for him. they do that all over the world . how do you know it is 3 million?
 
Nov 2, 2009
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I'm Australian, and I tend to agree with the hog and co. (Except for the bit about distances between towns and cities, and the Australian landscape. You haven't been to Australia, hog, have you?)

It's exciting for us to see the pro teams in Australia, and nice to watch some live cycling in the afternoon, but I can't shake the feeling that it's a kind of sunny training camp/party and a nice break from the cold of the northern hemisphere. There are points on offer, so that ramps it up a bit, I guess.

I don't think the format is going to change much. If they move it further from Adelaide they won't get any spectators, and it would become complicated logistically. I don't know why they stick with Willunga. Seems to me they could do more with the Adelaide hills.
 
Jan 20, 2010
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What thehog says about the race is pretty much bang on even if it sounds a little harsh.

What he says about the country itself sounds like the ramblings of someone who doesn't get out of the house much.

:)
 
auscyclefan94 said:
because he is a draw card and for the cycling season it doesn't fit in with him that well so they payes for him. they do that all over the world . how do you know it is 3 million?

....and the rest of the peleton & their free first class tickets?
 
Jun 16, 2009
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thehog said:
In Australia its dry, baron wasteland and no one wants to see that.








BREAKING NEWS, BEACHES, VINEYARDS AND FORESTS ARE ALL THE NEW BARREN, EFFECTIVE SEPT 5 2009

Hog your humour knows no bounds.
 
May 6, 2009
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Hog, the TDU has PT staus until at least 2013, after that, who knows. Yes a lot of the stages end in sprints, and if it is just a sprint fest, what is the Tour of Qatar then? There are plenty of mountains in Australia, especially along the Eastern Seaboard, but you would not know that.

I don't think the TDU has ever set out ot be anything that it is not. It's not Paris Nice and it has never set out to be.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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They could keep it largely the same as it was this year, but replace one of the sprint stages with a short Time Trial. Largely, this is a training event, so I don't imagine anyone's going to object to doing a brisk 20Km instead of a leisurely 120km.

As to the logistics - just ban Time Trial bikes and allow clip ons - they'll fit in the luggage easily enough. It's been done before (Tour of Qatar, I believe).

I'd put the TT immediately before or after the hilly stage.

I think Valverde viewing the race as a good tune up for Paris-Nice this year will help the race's profile.
 
Jan 24, 2010
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To thehog,

You seem to be good at bagging the cr*p out of Australia and the TDU. You ever been here? It is not all a wasteland.

Guess we will just have to wait to see who comes out here next year hey.
 
TDU Changes

It's fine the way it is. Why should every stage race have to suit climbers. France and Italy have similar races that favour sprinters especially early in the season. It's different but I think that's a good thing. The GC specialists only use it for training anyway. The same way they use Paris-Nice for bigger races later in the year.
 
knackers said:
To thehog,

You seem to be good at bagging the cr*p out of Australia and the TDU. You ever been here? It is not all a wasteland.
I spent ages 8 to 22 in Australia. Its a wasteland. Go to Tuscany then you'll know what I'm talking about.

In other news:

"While Armstrong has profited handsomely from the only ProTour event held outside Europe, The Age learnt yesterday that Australian Cadel Evans, the world road-race champion who has just completed his first Tour Down Under in five years, did not receive an appearance fee."


......

"Of the financial arrangements with Armstrong, SA's Tourism Minister Jane Lomax-Smith told The Age: ''It's a sponsorship policy for events, and we always run that policy because we believe that it's a very competitive industry. Very competitive.

''We do obviously spend tax-payers' dollars, but those commercial-in-confidence negotiations with sponsors are always kept confidential.

''Whether it's about the arts or sports or whatever, we want to maintain the integrity of those events without giving our entire business plan to a competitor, and that's a very reasonable position.''

The Victorian Government, in contrast, was forthcoming about its contribution of approximately half the $US3 million Tiger Woods received for playing at the Australian Masters last November.

''My perception of what Victoria does is it often promotes individuals and a one-off activity,'' Lomax-Smith said.

''This is not just a one-off event with one person coming. This is a massive, more than decade-long investment in cycling which is, if you like, multifactorial.''"
 
Jun 16, 2009
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thehog said:
I spent ages 8 to 22 in Australia. Its a wasteland. Go to Tuscany then you'll know what I'm talking about.

In other news:

"While Armstrong has profited handsomely from the only ProTour event held outside Europe, The Age learnt yesterday that Australian Cadel Evans, the world road-race champion who has just completed his first Tour Down Under in five years, did not receive an appearance fee."


......

"Of the financial arrangements with Armstrong, SA's Tourism Minister Jane Lomax-Smith told The Age: ''It's a sponsorship policy for events, and we always run that policy because we believe that it's a very competitive industry. Very competitive.

''We do obviously spend tax-payers' dollars, but those commercial-in-confidence negotiations with sponsors are always kept confidential.

''Whether it's about the arts or sports or whatever, we want to maintain the integrity of those events without giving our entire business plan to a competitor, and that's a very reasonable position.''

The Victorian Government, in contrast, was forthcoming about its contribution of approximately half the $US3 million Tiger Woods received for playing at the Australian Masters last November.

''My perception of what Victoria does is it often promotes individuals and a one-off activity,'' Lomax-Smith said.

''This is not just a one-off event with one person coming. This is a massive, more than decade-long investment in cycling which is, if you like, multifactorial.''"
You musnt of got out much in aus! No surprise about the other stuff!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mambo95 said:
They could keep it largely the same as it was this year, but replace one of the sprint stages with a short Time Trial. .
if they are going to have a time trial i think it should replace the cancer classic (or become a cancer time trial, or even team time trial) as a prelude and not count towards the final gc.. any sort of time trial on a sprint based stage race will ruin it..

So have a team time trial on the sunday for the fans

Then monday a crit towards the gc
5 days of stage racing
and then the final crit on the sunday

It would still be boring though.. :D
 
Jun 16, 2009
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dimspace said:
if they are going to have a time trial i think it should replace the cancer classic (or become a cancer time trial, or even team time trial) as a prelude and not count towards the final gc.. any sort of time trial on a sprint based stage race will ruin it..

So have a team time trial on the sunday for the fans

Then monday a crit towards the gc
5 days of stage racing
and then the final crit on the sunday

It would still be boring though.. :D
...still better than tour of britain!
 
Dec 14, 2009
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I suppose when the organisers of the Vuelta were canvasing their ideas for a grand tour, there were nay sayers who said the event would never take off and no serious riders would ever enter.

If the SA government can afford to pay the winner half of what they have been paying the uniballer, you'll always get riders going for the win.

The only problem I can see is that with the southern hemisphere adding to the cycling calender there might be too much cycling supply.

As for Australia being or not being as beautiful place: underwater baseball. Which is your favourite tree? Nature does not judge us, so why judge back?
 
May 6, 2009
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thehog said:
I spent ages 8 to 22 in Australia. Its a wasteland. Go to Tuscany then you'll know what I'm talking about.

In other news:

"While Armstrong has profited handsomely from the only ProTour event held outside Europe, The Age learnt yesterday that Australian Cadel Evans, the world road-race champion who has just completed his first Tour Down Under in five years, did not receive an appearance fee."


......

"Of the financial arrangements with Armstrong, SA's Tourism Minister Jane Lomax-Smith told The Age: ''It's a sponsorship policy for events, and we always run that policy because we believe that it's a very competitive industry. Very competitive.

''We do obviously spend tax-payers' dollars, but those commercial-in-confidence negotiations with sponsors are always kept confidential.

''Whether it's about the arts or sports or whatever, we want to maintain the integrity of those events without giving our entire business plan to a competitor, and that's a very reasonable position.''

The Victorian Government, in contrast, was forthcoming about its contribution of approximately half the $US3 million Tiger Woods received for playing at the Australian Masters last November.

''My perception of what Victoria does is it often promotes individuals and a one-off activity,'' Lomax-Smith said.

''This is not just a one-off event with one person coming. This is a massive, more than decade-long investment in cycling which is, if you like, multifactorial.''"
Where did you live in Australia? I have been to Tuscany and Umbria, and it was either dry and barren, and hot, or bucketing with rain.
 
thehog said:
Sorry it’s not the land its the people that inhabit it. I rest my case.

I wish you luck getting your personality disorder sorted out. In the meantime, you're my first candidate for the ignore list. It's not that you don't know anything about cycling, it's the fact that you go out of your way to be ungracious.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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thehog said:
Sorry it’s not the land its the people that inhabit it. I rest my case.

Rednecks, mullets, and deadly snakes, what a country. At least they don't have virtually unrestricted gun laws.
 

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