Infamous moments of gamesmanship/cheating

May 6, 2009
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What are some of the most infamous moments of gamesmanship/cheating (drug use aside since it is not the right forum). I'm thinking how Nico Mattan was able to get a tow from the publicity cars to beat Juan Antonio Flecha at the 2005 Ghent Wevelgem.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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craig1985 said:
What are some of the most infamous moments of gamesmanship/cheating (drug use aside since it is not the right forum). I'm thinking how Nico Mattan was able to get a tow from the publicity cars to beat Juan Antonio Flecha at the 2005 Ghent Wevelgem.
Moser's Giro win, Maertens in Vlaanderen 1977.
 
May 6, 2009
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What is the full story with Jesper Skibby at the 1987 RVV. I know he went up the Koppenberg, fell over and the car ran over his bike. Did he do it to hold up the chasing bunch so his leader would go clear, my memory is playing tricks on me at this point.
 
A

Anonymous

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'85 Vuelta comes to mind for the gamesmanship, not cheating. Poor old Millar...
 
Mar 11, 2009
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issoisso said:
Never heard of that one. Care to elaborate?
Made an illegal bike change at the foot of the Koppenberg and was pushed halfway up. He was together at the front with De Vlaeminck when he was told he was disqualified. He kept on pushing with De Vlaeminck never leaving his wheel. De Vlaeminck won the race by sprinting away from Maertens in the end.

Maertens still says he made a deal for 300.000 Belgian Franks, Vlaeminck denies.
After that De Vlaeminck was supposed to help Maertens win either Roubaix or Liege (they actually made a contract for that.). In Roubaix De Vlaeminck attacked from the front and nobody wanted to chase with Maertens in the group, in Liege De Vlaeminck only worked to make Thurau (and Post) lose. When Hinault and Dierickx went, he didn't do anything.
Maertens was screwed over by Lomme Driessens (the bike change) and De Vlaeminck incredibly hard.
 
ak-zaaf said:
Made an illegal bike change at the foot of the Koppenberg and was pushed halfway up. He was together at the front with De Vlaeminck when he was told he was disqualified. He kept on pushing with De Vlaeminck never leaving his wheel. De Vlaeminck won the race by sprinting away from Maertens in the end.

Maertens still says he made a deal for 300.000 Belgian Franks, Vlaeminck denies.
After that De Vlaeminck was supposed to help Maertens win either Roubaix or Liege (they actually made a contract for that.). In Roubaix De Vlaeminck attacked from the front and nobody wanted to chase with Maertens in the group, in Liege De Vlaeminck only worked to make Thurau (and Post) lose. When Hinault and Dierickx went, he didn't do anything.
Maertens was screwed over by Lomme Driessens (the bike change) and De Vlaeminck incredibly hard.

TBH, having read Fall from Grace, according to Maertens, it would seem that everybody was always trying to screw Maertens over!!
 
Aug 6, 2009
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craig1985 said:
What is the full story with Jesper Skibby at the 1987 RVV. I know he went up the Koppenberg, fell over and the car ran over his bike. Did he do it to hold up the chasing bunch so his leader would go clear, my memory is playing tricks on me at this point.
He fell over because the car hit him (or was about to hit him, I can't quite see) and it didn't hold up anyone except himself. The car then proceeded to run over his bike squeezing on the a spectator into the hillside. Skibby did make a swerve which was why the car hit him, he looked pretty tired. There's a video of it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=j03obuRAHiM&feature=related
 
Mar 11, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
TBH, having read Fall from Grace, according to Maertens, it would seem that everybody was always trying to screw Maertens over!!
Calling Merckx a traitor after the '73 Worlds didn't really help his case.
 
Concerning Flanders '77, the 300k BF that Maertens talked about were not meant to be all for him but half of it was to be shared between his two teammates and close friends Demeyer and Pollentier. Maertens claims that De Vlaeminck went to Nieuwpoort on a rainy day in a hotel close to where Pollentier's ex wife used to live and brought 150k BF that Maertens would have given to Pollentier and Demeyer. And he, of course, claimed he never got his share of the deal. De Vlaeminck claims he did not bring anything and says we can always ask Pollentier if he received anything, he would answer no.

Maertens was actually most of all screwed over by race director Fabri who announced him towards the end of the race that he reconsidered his decision to disqualify him but Maertens was worn out and could not sprint. He and W. Planckaert were eventually disqualified for doping. So now De Vlaeminck proudly says he was the only clean rider on the podium. But he also says he was never proud of the way he rode that day.

About the contract for the next races, he admitted that when Maertens attacked he used Godefroot to chase him because he couldn't morally do it himself. But I think De Vlaeminck considered the contract to be fulfilled after the Flèche when Maertens attacked him while they were both in front. Maertens tested positive again for stimul.

About the Worlds '73, I'm probably the only person in the World to claim Gimondi simply was the strongest.

I appreciated the story about this fishmonger Marc Reybrouck who gave Maertens his new bike, insulted De Vlaeminck during the podium ceremony. He was also Eddy Planckaert's fish delivery man and was present on the velodrome at Eddy's victory in Roubaix. He told him he won with this gap (showing a space of about 50cm, with his arms while Eddy won by 2mm over Bauer). :D

-------------------------

Other things:

Beheyt in Worlds 1973
LeMond in France 1989 (triathlete handlebar was banned, he should have been disqualified)
Bobet in Giro 1957: taking advantage of Gaul's sanitary stop.
Anquetil in Paris-Nice 1966
Moser's Hour record (but finally reconsidered 16 years later)
Paris-Roubaix 1936: Lapebie declared winner while photos showed Romain Maes crossing the line 1st (same happened earlier with Ronsse's win over Curtel, and a Ronsse defeat, I think)
Raas in Worlds 1979: Priem pushes in Cauberg
Liège Bastogne Liège 1970: Merckx claims Eric De Vlaeminck cut in front of him in the tunnel before entering the velodrome and whistled to his brother to signal he could attack. But Eddy had time to catch him I think and was beaten by Verbeeck in the sprint.
Giri 1948, 1966,1967: Magni, Motta and then every Italian (resp.) took advantage pushes. And Gimondi got a tow from the Rai car in 1967, according to Geminiani.
France 1985: LeMond was heading to a possible victory but Tapie's order was win for Hinault (OK Hinault got punched by Phil Anderson)
France 1965 (Montpellier): Reybrouck got orders from Driessens to suck Van Looy's wheel
Lombardy 1958: De Bruyne sucked Van Looy's wheel to let the chasing group come back while a second place could assure him of Desgrange Colombo (same for Roche Liège 1987). De Bruyne also made arrangement in Worlds 1956 with Van Steenbergen against Van Looy. Van Looy was in front with Janssens who never left his wheel.
Giro 1969: The Savona case.
Verbeeck in Ghent Wevelgem 1972. Gimondi sprinted to victory but Frans' manoeuvre benefitted Swerts
Van Looy in Flanders 1968. Rode negatively against Merckx, which benefitted Godefroot.
Anquetil in Bordeaux-Paris 1965.
Eric De Vlaeminck in Cyclocross Worlds 1973 (He fell and instinctively put his bike horizontally in order to get the others to fall as well)
Cyclocross Worlds 1984 Liboton got punched by a Dutch spectator and then never left Stamsnijder's wheel to win in the sprint.
France 1975: punch lost Merckx the Tour.
France 1977: van Impe hit by press car on the way to L'Alpe
Pollentier in Flanders 1979: never left Godefroot's and Braun's wheels cos' Maertens was behind but unscrupulously attacked in the finale, leading Godefroot to make an arrangement with Braun's DS.


Suspicion has also been raised about Moser's apparently (too?) easy win in Worlds 1977, about Vanderaerden's win in Paris Roubaix '87 (in the book De Flandrien, he just said he convinced the other guys to ride cos' Kelly and Van Hooydonck were chasing and then they wouldn't have prizes, which was poker cos' he didn't know it).

OK I'll stop here. But all this is just futility with regard to the big cheating of the EPO (etc..) dopers of 90's and beyond. :mad:
 
What happened between Kneet and Moser? Not the first time I've heard that something was going on around that.


By the way I've been rather harsh on De Bruyne in my post but in Paris-Roubaix 1956 he was the strongest. Van Steenbergen told him so. But Magne commanded that Bobet should win this one and so the Mercier worked to tire out the fast Van Steenbergen. In the end, Bobet didn't even thank De Bruyne and that's how Fred moved away to Carpano the following year.

The year before, Bobet was to win but Coppi didn't get along well with him at that time and he rode negatively towards Bobet and let Forestier go and catch the win.
 
Jul 8, 2009
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Cerberus said:
He fell over because the car hit him (or was about to hit him, I can't quite see) and it didn't hold up anyone except himself. The car then proceeded to run over his bike squeezing on the a spectator into the hillside. Skibby did make a swerve which was why the car hit him, he looked pretty tired. There's a video of it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=j03obuRAHiM&feature=related
What the hell was that? First they hit him and topple him over, then they proceed to ride right over his bike, and practically pin a spectator to the side of the road as well?
 
Apr 8, 2009
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Firstly I only saw Cycling since the 90's so its great to read threads like these

Also one that stands out that I was was the year when Bayden Cook won his Green Gurnsey - he won it after McEwen was DQ for basically running O'Grady off the road on the final sprint - had of he played it fair it would of gone to Stuey as he was leading in points.......Needless to say I was not a happy little vegemite at the time
 
Aug 18, 2009
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sportzchick said:
Firstly I only saw Cycling since the 90's so its great to read threads like these

Also one that stands out that I was was the year when Bayden Cook won his Green Gurnsey - he won it after McEwen was DQ for basically running O'Grady off the road on the final sprint - had of he played it fair it would of gone to Stuey as he was leading in points.......Needless to say I was not a happy little vegemite at the time
Ok, let's set you straight here.

Baden Cooke won the Green Jersey in 2003. He claimed second on the final stage in a tight sprint with McEwen, bumping elbows and leaning on each other. No one was disqualified.

Stuey wasn't close in the sprint, or indeed the Green Jersey points, he finished well back in the points competition.

Therefore Cooke won fair and square, Stuey wasn't hard done by, McEwen didn't cheat, and there is no such word as WOULD OF. It's would have, or would've.
 
Sep 18, 2009
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brettok said:
Ok, let's set you straight here.

Baden Cooke won the Green Jersey in 2003. He claimed second on the final stage in a tight sprint with McEwen, bumping elbows and leaning on each other. No one was disqualified.

Stuey wasn't close in the sprint, or indeed the Green Jersey points, he finished well back in the points competition.

Therefore Cooke won fair and square, Stuey wasn't hard done by, McEwen didn't cheat, and there is no such word as WOULD OF. It's would have, or would've.
was a cool sprint to watch though.... but a French guy got it no?
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Echoes said:
What happened between Kneet and Moser? Not the first time I've heard that something was going on around that.
Kneet couldn't possibly win a sprint with Moser (thats what everybody thought, but as Tim Krabbe wrote: Kneet was pretty good in a sprint-a-deux), so Moser chose the safe options and offered Kneet money.
According to Moser he agreed, according to Knetemann he just mumbled something and kept riding.
Considering Knetemann was a true Peter Post-rider, Moser probably got screwed over.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Digger said:
Could you expand here Issoisso.
There's a lot to each story, so I'll try to mention only the essential (even then it'll be a big post)

Giro: Roche's team leader Visentini (defending Giro champion) is in pink. He crashes. He's fine, but has lost 30 seconds on the main group. Roche is ordered to drop back to pace him back to the favourites' group. He ignores this and instead attacks.

The rest of the carrera team drops back to bring Visentini back to the group.
Once back in the pack, the remaining Carreras assemble at the front to bring Roche back. The Carrera team was weak, so they were all quickly dropped and Visentini was left to work alone with all the other contenders on his wheel.
After a long chase, Visentini bonked on the final climb and lost about 4 or 5 minutes.

A few days later, Visentini crashed again and retired. Roche won the Giro.




Later that year at the Tour, Jean-François Bernard was considered possibly the next Hinault and was expected to take his mantle. He was dominating the Tour at 25 years old, putting over 2 minutes into Roche on the Ventoux alone and almost as much into the elite climbers like Delgado and Herrera.

Mottet and Roche, seeing there was no way they were going to beat Bernard head on, planned to attack him at a specific place where the pack had to cross a very narrow bridge where there would be a bunch up and Bernard wouldn't be able to respond before they were up the road.

When that stage came, Bernard flatted just before the bridge. At this point, Roche went up to Delgado to tell him of the coming attack. Delgado didn't want to lose the Tour like that, so he said he'd go with them, but he wouldn't work as he was flatly opposed to what they were about to do.

The bridge came, the field slowed down and bunched up to cross the bridge, Mottet and Roche attacked, Delgado went with them, and Bernard was behind the pack getting his flat serviced.

Bernard lost many minutes that day.

By the final flat 38km TT Bernard was flying so high he put 1 min 45s into even Roche, the specialist time triallist.

It wasn't enough. Bernard lost the Tour by 2 minutes. The next year he was dominating the Giro when he crashed in a dark tunnel. He never fully recovered from the severe back and knee injuries and was a domestique for the rest of his career.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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issoisso said:
There's a lot to each story, so I'll try to mention only the essential (even then it'll be a big post)

Giro: Roche's team leader Visentini (defending Giro champion) is in pink. He crashes. He's fine, but has lost 30 seconds on the main group. Roche is ordered to drop back to pace him back to the favourites' group. He ignores this and instead attacks.
Roche was supposed to help Visentini win the Giro and after that Visentini would help Roche win the Tour. When everything seemed to be going his way in the Giro pretty Roberto told some of his Italian friends he wouldn't help Roche in July. Someone told Roche, he got mad and attacked Visentini when he was down.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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ak-zaaf said:
Roche was supposed to help Visentini win the Giro and after that Visentini would help Roche win the Tour. When everything seemed to be going his way in the Giro pretty Roberto told some of his Italian friends he wouldn't help Roche in July. Someone told Roche, he got mad and attacked Visentini when he was down.
That's a side of the story I've never heard. Like I said, there's a lot more to it :)
 

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