Is Andy Schleck being criticised too much lately?

[The Hitch]

Sorry but Garzelli isn't a GC rider.

Nieve then.

 

[Maxiton]

I think the main reason for the disdain is the over reliance, I would say morbid reliance, on his brother. (Have you ever heard anyone else refer to his own brother as a soulmate? Me either.) Or it may be his consistent *****ing about how tough the parcours is or how steep the descents are or how wet and dangerous. Maybe it's the fact that, like Armstrong before him, he is mostly about the Tour only - though unlike Armstrong he never wins it, and it's usually his own fault. Or it might be the fact that he is put forth by everyone from the UCI to Armstrong to (previously) ASO to Phil and Paul (who seem to be paid to sing his praises) as the Great White Hope against Contador; and despite all that he still can't get his thumb out of his backside. Or maybe it's just because he's not a winner, even though he's supposed to be one. Maybe that's it.

 

[Old School]

He's weak. He deserves the criticism due to the words that come out of his mouth. Overconfident, speaking like he's won something legit before. Which he hasn't. Win something worthy, then talk smack.

Until then, HUSH Andy. And DON'T whine when people constantly call you out, because your words ring hollow.

And I second the post that called out Canc for neutralizing that stage, and attacking when Frank held up the field....that was punkish, so they had NO grounds to cry when AC pulled away when the non riding Andy jumped his own chain.

Can't TT, can't desend....you don't deserve to win Le Tour.

 

[Ferminal]

Is there an easier target in professional cycling?

 

[Night Rider]

Andy gets talked about too much, not criticised too much.

Anyone would think he's a multiple tour winner the way he get's pumped up.

 

[El Pistolero]

I don't get all the hate on this forum about Andy, but I can find myself in some of the critique regarding Andy. Such as too much attention for his brother and possibly not making enough decisions on his own. The radio-controlled part might not be that true, for example Bjarne told Andy to attack 6 kilometers out on Morzine-Avoriaz but Andy didnt and waited till around 1km to go and won the stage..

As for Andy never winning the Tour when Contador is around, definitely in 2010 they were equals 39 seconds lost on the Chaingate which was the exact same time he lost the tour with.

But all the hate on this forum that regarding Andy makes me like him way more than Contador..

Check out stage 3

They were not equals, Schleck blew it in the prologue. If there's one thing that annoys me it's that people always use chain gate as an argument, but completely forget about that cobbled stage. If the peloton weren't little pussies Andy would have been eliminated at stage 2 already anyway. He couldn't even win with all the gifts the gods could bestow upon him.

Anyway, I like cyclists because of how they ride. Not because what other people think about them, that's pathetic.

 

[El Pistolero]

Is there an easier target in professional cycling?

Kevin Pauwels.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Andy is my pick to win Le Tour in 2013 (anticipating as mountainous a TDF as you can get with it being the centenary edition). Despite his career hiccups I still see him as a near certain winner of the race one day (ignoring possible bad injuries).

As for the 2010 TDF, he was clearly AC's equal on the mountains, though not quite as strong in the chrono, so didn't deserve to win. And even though he was the 2nd strongest rider, he didn't deserve to finish 2nd either. That Cancerella stunt on stage 2 was BS (and bad luck happens to many riders, no waiting for Mayo in '04, Vino in '07, etc.....). Even with losing 4-5 minutes there he would still probably finish 3rd in 4th in Paris.

With his main GT performances I would say that only 2011 deserves some criticism; for the parcours was so suited to him, and yet he still couldn't beat Cadel? And though I rate Evans highly, I thought that Andy was better than that.

2nd in the '07 Giro on a VERY tough course at such a young age was Ullrichesque. And his performance in the '09 TDF was a highly commendable one.

Criticism about his lacklustre attitiude towards the 2010 Vuelta is warranted, though it's likely that he had no form after pushing himself in the TDF anyway. If he really had the form to contend for GC then he wouldn't have been out drinking, IMO.

To expect him to win a one week race is unfair. Look at the riders that win them. Martin, Kloden, Leipheimer, Horner. These are TT first GC riders. In recent times some of these races have had nearly as much chrono as the three week races, so it doesn't suit Andy. I think what we would like to see, is him being at least competitive in one or two of them a year, and fighting for a podium or top 5 finish, rather than soft pedalling with the autobus.

I think that 2012 presents a wonderful opportunity for Andy to vary his palmeres before reverting back to more the norm for 2013. The Giro is SCREAMING out his name, and then because he hasn't focused so much on the TDF (a problem with this for riders is that it is smack bang in the middle of the season) he can do other races too. Perhaps Romandie before the Giro, and the Vuelta at years end. And winning a GT this year just makes it so much easier for him to go and win the Tour in 2013 - not that it is all quite that easy of course. He could possibly still ride the TDF this year, soft pedal some stages and go for a stage win where suited.

 

[Maxiton]

Is there an easier target in professional cycling?

No. Which makes it feel a little too much like shooting fish in a barrel.

Andy is my pick to win Le Tour in 2013 (anticipating as mountainous a TDF as you can get with it being the centenary edition). Despite his career hiccups I still see him as a near certain winner of the race one day (ignoring possible bad injuries).

As for the 2010 TDF, he was clearly AC's equal on the mountains, though not quite as strong in the chrono, so didn't deserve to win. And even though he was the 2nd strongest rider, he didn't deserve to finish 2nd either. That Cancerella stunt on stage 2 was BS (and bad luck happens to many riders, no waiting for Mayo in '04, Vino in '07, etc.....). Even with losing 4-5 minutes there he would still probably finish 3rd in 4th in Paris.

With his main GT performances I would say that only 2011 deserves some criticism; for the parcours was so suited to him, and yet he still couldn't beat Cadel? And though I rate Evans highly, I thought that Andy was better than that.

2nd in the '07 Giro on a VERY tough course at such a young age was Ullrichesque. And his performance in the '09 TDF was a highly commendable one.

Criticism about his lacklustre attitiude towards the 2010 Vuelta is warranted, though it's likely that he had no form after pushing himself in the TDF anyway. If he really had the form to contend for GC then he wouldn't have been out drinking, IMO.

To expect him to win a one week race is unfair. Look at the riders that win them. Martin, Kloden, Leipheimer, Horner. These are TT first GC riders. In recent times some of these races have had nearly as much chrono as the three week races, so it doesn't suit Andy. I think what we would like to see, is him being at least competitive in one or two of them a year, and fighting for a podium or top 5 finish, rather than soft pedalling with the autobus.

I think that 2012 presents a wonderful opportunity for Andy to vary his palmeres before reverting back to more the norm for 2013. The Giro is SCREAMING out his name, and then because he hasn't focused so much on the TDF (a problem with this for riders is that it is smack bang in the middle of the season) he can do other races too. Perhaps Romandie before the Giro, and the Vuelta at years end. And winning a GT this year just makes it so much easier for him to go and win the Tour in 2013 - not that it is all quite that easy of course. He could possibly still ride the TDF this year, soft pedal some stages and go for a stage win where suited.

That actually sounds like a fair assessment / prescription. Let's hope he lives up to / takes it.

 

[Ferminal]

To expect him to win a one week race is unfair. Look at the riders that win them. Martin, Kloden, Leipheimer, Horner. These are TT first GC riders. In recent times some of these races have had nearly as much chrono as the three week races, so it doesn't suit Andy. I think what we would like to see, is him being at least competitive in one or two of them a year, and fighting for a podium or top 5 finish, rather than soft pedalling with the autobus.

Paris-Nice most years should suit him. Likewise T-A, although the uphill sprinting would be tricky tactically for him. TdS is definitely winnable most of the time, I mean Frank won last year and Cunego almost won this year. Catalunya this year obviously would have suited him very well. But you get the feeling him trying to go close in these races would compromise his grand July. I agree that it doesn't matter if he wins or not, just compete at the pointy end, but they are definitely winnable.

 

[ElChingon]

I think besides the obvious as previously stated, bad TTer, bad descender, bad race tactics, bad race schedule, bad luck, bad equipment, bad mechanic(s), bad preparation, ...

He a then opens his mouth and sticks a fork in it so badly it allows everyone to criticize him as we do. The love for his rivals that walk over his back and eat his lunch as they take wins over him. The whining just turns my stomach to his accomplishments and possible future wins, ugh...

Let the hate on the Schleck continue till he can prove otherwise and I think we'll still hate on him if he wins if he continues to whine like he does.

He needs to grow a pair and take some wins no matter how he does it, except clinic style.

 

[pig pen]

Andy, 2nd in LBL, 2nd, Sierra Road, 2nd, Tour.
Not bad, hung in there with Gilbert, when only himself and Frank could.
2nd against Horner, on extremely tough climb, with no team mates.
2nd against an inspired Cadel and beating an inspired Voekler, and Contador.
Winer and feeble, I do not quite follow.
Late bloomer that'sall,Andy.
Andy needs Armstrong to hide his wheels and leave his brother at the airport, to toughen Andy up and you gotcha self a contender.
Merckx, Kloden. and Cipo said as much. Those three and Bruyneel are all Andy needs to listen too.

 

[Mambo95]

I like Andy Schleck.

So he might not be as good as Contador, but who is?

He seems to be hated on here because he doesn't follow the tactics that posters feel should use. He doesn't attack relentlessly. Here's a clue for you people. Cycling isn't a Playstation game. He'll attack if he has the legs, if he doesn't he won't. At no point does he pick up a medipack and press L1.

Maybe his tactics aren't the best, but at the age of 26 he has 4 GT runners up spots and a monument. That's pretty damn good by anyone's standard.

Anyone who thinks he is a failure is a 24 carat idiot.

 

[hughmoore]

As for the 2010 TDF, he was clearly AC's equal on the mountains, though not quite as strong in the chrono, so didn't deserve to win. And even though he was the 2nd strongest rider, he didn't deserve to finish 2nd either. That Cancerella stunt on stage 2 was BS (and bad luck happens to many riders, no waiting for Mayo in '04, Vino in '07, etc.....). Even with losing 4-5 minutes there he would still probably finish 3rd in 4th in Paris.

With his main GT performances I would say that only 2011 deserves some criticism; for the parcours was so suited to him, and yet he still couldn't beat Cadel? And though I rate Evans highly, I thought that Andy was better than that.

2nd in the '07 Giro on a VERY tough course at such a young age was Ullrichesque. And his performance in the '09 TDF was a highly commendable one.

Criticism about his lacklustre attitiude towards the 2010 Vuelta is warranted, though it's likely that he had no form after pushing himself in the TDF anyway. If he really had the form to contend for GC then he wouldn't have been out drinking, IMO.


.

Cadel Evans was stronger than Andy up until he broke his elbow, could have finished second also to AC.



Hugh

 

[gregrowlerson]

Cadel Evans was stronger than Andy up until he broke his elbow, could have finished second also to AC.
Hugh

No way. They hadn't done many long mountains up to that point. Cadel is no chance of going with AC and AS on Madeleine and Tourmalet. Only way Evans could have gotten 2nd would be if the Cancerella stop racing thing on stage 2 never happened.

Schleck's climbing was far better in 2010 then in 2011, which could be more a discussion for the clinic.

 

[Siriuscat]

I'll say it, Andy deserves all the pelters he gets, great rider; I'm not sure until he starts winning some races not just killer mtfs in the Tour against those who ARE the best then to me he's second rate. Being great means winning and building a Palmares that has more firsts in it than seconds and thirds, I don't ever see him doing that despite his new DS.

As for the Frandy bro-mance thing....that's just plain creepy, what colour will the RadioLuxembourgNissanTrek scarves be this year

 

[movingtarget]

The problem is his mouth. No one makes more predictions before and during a race for no result. He also seems to really think that himself and Contador are a level above everyone else. Maybe potentially but talk is cheap. The brother is the other problem. I am sure Bruyneel will sort that out or try to. It sounded like Andy thought it was better to have two Schlecks on the TDF podium than to actually win the race. That is not the psychology of a winner. If he is copping a lot of flak, most of it is self inflicted. People talk about Evans not winning as many Tours as he should have but there is no doubt that Schleck could have won the last two. Evans and Contador are mentally stronger and smarter tactically and they pay much more attention to their TT training and testing. Even though I am not a big fan of Schleck, I would not mind seeing him fulfill his potential and win a grand tour. How bad does he want it ? The 2011 TDF makes me think, not as much as others.

 

[rhubroma]

The problem is his mouth. No one makes more predictions before and during a race for no result. He also seems to really think that himself and Contador are a level above everyone else. Maybe potentially but talk is cheap. The brother is the other problem. I am sure Bruyneel will sort that out or try to. It sounded like Andy thought it was better to have two Schlecks on the TDF podium than to actually win the race. That is not the psychology of a winner. If he is copping a lot of flak, most of it is self inflicted. People talk about Evans not winning as many Tours as he should have but there is no doubt that Schleck could have won the last two. Evans and Contador are mentally stronger and smarter tactically and they pay much more attention to their TT training and testing. Even though I am not a big fan of Schleck, I would not mind seeing him fulfill his potential and win a grand tour. How bad does he want it ? The 2011 TDF makes me think, not as much as others.

Contador is hands down superior, IMO. Climbs better and tt better. He just had too many problems the last couple of seasons.

Agree completely with you that Shleck's biggest problem is his mouth and that as a result he brings the criticism upon himself.

 

[LaFlorecita]

<snip>

I'm sorry to say this, but I can't see him win the 2013 TdF. If- and note that I said if- he wins some 1 week stage races this year, he might have a chance, but otherwise, no.

If Contador is cleared, he is for me twice the favourite Andy is. Because what has Andy that Contador doesn't have? A strong team? So what. Alberto'll have his Spaniards with him, and they're enough for him. He doesn't need a team to tear apart the field, he'll do it himself. Andy has never showed, he's a better climber than Alberto on a regular basis. He has finished higher in some MTFs, but we can blame that on injuries and/or fatigue of Alberto. (Or just simply a bad year, see 2010) When they're both on top form, Andy won't beat him in the mountains, they're equals at best, and neither he will beat him in the TT, because Andy's just not made for that. Time trialling will always be his weak point.

Don't get me wrong, I think Andy might win the big one some day, just not this year or next year. He's too young, too inexperienced in winning stage races, too whiny, and too irresponsible to really train hard. Plus, he lacks the mental ability.

Edit: Don't blame me, this is one of my 'Berto fangirl/Andy hater rants

 

[RedheadDane]

*Riis claims Andy will not win the tour while Contador is riding
*McEwen cannot picture him on the TDF podium spot in 2012
*Bernaudeau believes Rollan is as good as the Schlecks
*Cipollini opines Andy is being "radio-controlled" too much & his own ambitions conflict with Frank's...

I wouldn't call that a critique of AS, more like a cadeu (sp?) to Rolland...

 

[Siriuscat]

The line in BS he spun after the soggy descent into Gap last year epitomised him for me, a big spoilt bairn who wants everything handed to him. I hope he never wins a GT because every winner has been a real tough cyclist he's a wuss who will never realise the full potential of his talent.


(ps, I'd put at least two horrid snotty descents to finish into the tour EVERY year, it's not just about guys who can go up the way quickly)

 

[RedheadDane]

While I believe there might be some really good reasons for his fear (yes, fear!) of descending I agree that he needs to get over it! As long as he lets his head get too filled up with what could happen he's never going to learn how to descend properly. He doesn't need to learn to descend as Cancellara does after all...

 

[LaFlorecita]

The line in BS he spun after the soggy descent into Gap last year epitomised him for me, a big spoilt bairn who wants everything handed to him. I hope he never wins a GT because every winner has been a real tough cyclist he's a wuss who will never realise the full potential of his talent.


(ps, I'd put at least two horrid snotty descents to finish into the tour EVERY year, it's not just about guys who can go up the way quickly)

I love it when people share the same sentiment as me.

 

[jens_attacks]

he has so much talent and that's why he deserves all the bashing.so no he's not criticised too much.

 

[meat puppet]

While watching the Tour of 2009, the bros' double act was hilarious. Blimey, on the queen stage's col de romme and colombiere it looked as though they were actually trying. Grimacing and attacking - if only to find out that Contador was still breathing thru his nose. There was grace and drama about that.

Andy's flaws as a rider are there, but so what? It only makes things interesting when riders are not robots and act, or don't act, for better or for worse, on their instincts. Perhaps he does not have the courage to trust his sensations and be willing to risk losing it all in order to win. Well, tough luck.

So Andy has a big mouth and does not deliver? Well, I don't really care. He goofs around, and so be it. And the journos gotta eat too.

So he is insecure and needs to mature and cut the umbilical to Frank. He will, I presume, but perhaps he just needs the tie to reassure himself of his ability. Not infinitely much you can do about it if that is so.

These I have no trouble with. In an alternate universe these things would probably give him the edge he otherwise seems to lack in my eyes.

Still I dislike him. Or maybe I should say I dislike the public role and/or function he fulfills within cycling. He is the official darling of the Lance Industry Ltd., and thereby at the moment the number one benefactor of the bullsh1t bingo whose workings Floyd and others have tried to unmask. Not more, not less, but enough already.