Is Mark Cavendish the only real top class pure sprinter?

[craig1985]

I'll admt I got the idea from a letter in the latest Pro Cycling magazine.

Well is he? I'm not taking anything away from him, his ride at the Tour was unbelieveable, and his lead out train was simply first rate (and hiring guys like Mark Renshaw). His other top sprinters include Alessandro Petacchi, Robbie McEwen, Daniele Bennati, Tyler Farrar, Tom Boonen, Oscar Freire, Thor Hushovd, Andre Greipel.

Of which:

Greipel is his own team-mate, and if they do the same races, then Greipel usually does lead out.
Petacchi, who still beat him twice at the Giro, but is starting to get on a bit.
McEwen, hard to judge since he missed the Giro and Tour through various injuries. Is 37.
Freire, shown this season that he is starting to become past his best. But I never considered him a 'pure' sprinter anyway. I always put him the sprinter/Classics rider bracket.
Boonen, on form he can be very hard to beat, but again, do you consider him a 'pure' sprinter since he was won P-R three times, RVV twice, and Ghent Wevelgem once? You can say he is probably more of a Classics rider with a top class sprint.
Hushovd, not quite as fast of a sprinter as Cavendish is, or his lead out train isn't that great, although, it would be rather pointless having a (now ex) TdF winner riding lead out when he would be rather useless (any why would you when he is considered a favourite for the overall GC). Generally has to go out on break aways in the mountains to pick up points.
Bennati, I put him in as he has been pretty prolific in the last couple of years, but with several injuries, I wonder how much his top end speed has been reduced. Going to be hard with four strong GC riders for the Giro and TdF on the same team.
Farrar, top sprinter in his own right and has had a fantastic season, and TBF he did beat Cavendish at Tirreno Adriatico, but I'm not sure if he is quite there yet to beat him (either that or Garmin has a dire lead out train).

So in conclusion, one is his own team-mate, one is getting on (35), two starting to be past their best and one of them was quite good at the Classics (Freire), and the other one is one of the best cobbled Classics riders around, and the other three aren't quite as fast/average lead out trains.

So what do peopel think or am I just talking BS?

 

[TRDean]

I'll admt I got the idea from a letter in the latest Pro Cycling magazine.

Well is he? I'm not taking anything away from him, his ride at the Tour was unbelieveable, and his lead out train was simply first rate (and hiring guys like Mark Renshaw). His other top sprinters include Alessandro Petacchi, Robbie McEwen, Daniele Bennati, Tyler Farrar, Tom Boonen, Oscar Freire, Thor Hushovd, Andre Greipel.

Of which:

Greipel is his own team-mate, and if they do the same races, then Greipel usually does lead out.
Petacchi, who still beat him twice at the Giro, but is starting to get on a bit.
McEwen, hard to judge since he missed the Giro and Tour through various injuries. Is 37.
Freire, shown this season that he is starting to become past his best. But I never considered him a 'pure' sprinter anyway. I always put him the sprinter/Classics rider bracket.
Boonen, on form he can be very hard to beat, but again, do you consider him a 'pure' sprinter since he was won P-R three times, RVV twice, and Ghent Wevelgem once? You can say he is probably more of a Classics rider with a top class sprint.
Hushovd, not quite as fast of a sprinter as Cavendish is, or his lead out train isn't that great, although, it would be rather pointless having a (now ex) TdF winner riding lead out when he would be rather useless (any why would you when he is considered a favourite for the overall GC). Generally has to go out on break aways in the mountains to pick up points.
Bennati, I put him in as he has been pretty prolific in the last couple of years, but with several injuries, I wonder how much his top end speed has been reduced. Going to be hard with four strong GC riders for the Giro and TdF on the same team.
Farrar, top sprinter in his own right and has had a fantastic season, and TBF he did beat Cavendish at Tirreno Adriatico, but I'm not sure if he is quite there yet to beat him (either that or Garmin has a dire lead out train).

So in conclusion, one is his own team-mate, one is getting on (35), two starting to be past their best and one of them was quite good at the Classics (Freire), and the other one is one of the best cobbled Classics riders around, and the other three aren't quite as fast/average lead out trains.

So what do peopel think or am I just talking BS?

I think it is a fair question...one that I will answer a resounding yes!! Going through your list...Petacchi, McEwen, Freire are all past their primes. At least as far as top end speed goes. I would say Boonen has never been a pure sprinter, but can and does very well in bunch gallops. Hushovd seems to me to be loosing a bit of speed due to age...but his classics riding has gotten better. Him, like Boonen maybe don't even do specific sprint training? Bennati, when he is healthy is very fast...Cav fast? I don't quite think so. Farrar and Greipel would seem to me to be the best challengers on the list. Time will tell, hopefully next year. Right now, they are not as fast...but I hope next year they will be.

Some riders that could make an impact with speed (but are very long shots) include Kenny de Haes, Kenny van Hummel, Borut Bozic...I think any one of these guys could storm onto the scene next season and really show well. De Haes is out from under Katusha and looks to be coming back...van Hummel has 5 victories this season with numerous top 3 placings, and Bozic is coming into his own with very nice late season form. It should be exciting.

 

[El Imbatido]

Gerald Ciolek seems to be coming along alright now. He will hopefully mature and improve with more time. I also believe Griepel should have got out of columbia when he had the chance (didn't he just re-sign with them?)

I think the jury is still out on Robbie McEwen (injury) and Alessandro Petacchi(not in a protour team until next season). Will hopefully see abit more of them next season. Whilst i realise they are both starting to get on a bit, i believe sprinters can hold on to their career longer than a GC man and it will be good for the sport if they can fire up and take some wins from Cav next year.

 

[taiwan]

I'll admt I got the idea from a letter in the latest Pro Cycling magazine.

Well is he? I'm not taking anything away from him, his ride at the Tour was unbelieveable, and his lead out train was simply first rate (and hiring guys like Mark Renshaw). His other top sprinters include Alessandro Petacchi, Robbie McEwen, Daniele Bennati, Tyler Farrar, Tom Boonen, Oscar Freire, Thor Hushovd, Andre Greipel.

Of which:

Greipel is his own team-mate, and if they do the same races, then Greipel usually does lead out.
Petacchi, who still beat him twice at the Giro, but is starting to get on a bit.
McEwen, hard to judge since he missed the Giro and Tour through various injuries. Is 37.
Freire, shown this season that he is starting to become past his best. But I never considered him a 'pure' sprinter anyway. I always put him the sprinter/Classics rider bracket.
Boonen, on form he can be very hard to beat, but again, do you consider him a 'pure' sprinter since he was won P-R three times, RVV twice, and Ghent Wevelgem once? You can say he is probably more of a Classics rider with a top class sprint.
Hushovd, not quite as fast of a sprinter as Cavendish is, or his lead out train isn't that great, although, it would be rather pointless having a (now ex) TdF winner riding lead out when he would be rather useless (any why would you when he is considered a favourite for the overall GC). Generally has to go out on break aways in the mountains to pick up points.
Bennati, I put him in as he has been pretty prolific in the last couple of years, but with several injuries, I wonder how much his top end speed has been reduced. Going to be hard with four strong GC riders for the Giro and TdF on the same team.
Farrar, top sprinter in his own right and has had a fantastic season, and TBF he did beat Cavendish at Tirreno Adriatico, but I'm not sure if he is quite there yet to beat him (either that or Garmin has a dire lead out train).

So in conclusion, one is his own team-mate, one is getting on (35), two starting to be past their best and one of them was quite good at the Classics (Freire), and the other one is one of the best cobbled Classics riders around, and the other three aren't quite as fast/average lead out trains.

So what do peopel think or am I just talking BS?

Petacchi has beaten Cavendish directly at the Giro, Farrar has beaten him directly at the Tirreno- Adriatico. They're pure sprinters. Petacchi will be back on the ProTour circiut next season, and Farrar's had a good late season, so they could give some competition next year, but Cavendish will still be the one to beat.
Greipel is interesting, because he's hard to compare to Cavendish directly. If the Worlds had been flat, then they might have competed. Also Theo Bos I think will show up strongly next year.

 

[ingsve]

No, I wouldn't say Cav is the only top pure sprinter. It may seem that way because he's undoubtedly the best but it would be a more fair representation to view Cavendish as the exception and the other riders mentioned as the core of the top sprinter echelon.

Then there are a few riders that would rather fit into a 2nd tier of sprinters that sometimes rival the best ones. Her ewe have Hutarovich, Ciolek, Casper, Davis, Rojas etc. It's hard to draw a clear line though.

 

[horseman]

At the moment Cav is the No.1 when it comes to the sprints, there are some other good ones around and they will beat him sometimes but for now they have to play second fiddle.

 

[taiwan]

Cavendish might become less of a pure sprinter himself, if he becomes more versatile as time goes on. He might not use a train in future ( not that he always has, has he?), and could potentially appear at the finished of a greater variety of races.If he did, that wouldn't be any good for guys like Hushovd or Freire who capitalise on the slightly harder finishes. I think Cavendish has expressed a desire to prove he can cope with climbs.

 

[TRDean]

Cavendish might become less of a pure sprinter himself, if he becomes more versatile as time goes on. He might not use a train in future ( not that he always has, has he?), and could potentially appear at the finished of a greater variety of races.If he did, that wouldn't be any good for guys like Hushovd or Freire who capitalise on the slightly harder finishes. I think Cavendish has expressed a desire to prove he can cope with climbs.

I agree, but Cav has a lot of improving if he wants to be in the same catagory as Freire and Hushovd on the hills...not saying it can't be done...but it will take some time.

 

[Mondrian]

From the current crop of cyclists I think the only one able to beat him is Robbie McEwen - i was really keen to watch the 2 of them go head to head this season as Robbie had a decent train too with Katusha (Steegman, DeHaes, etc) but injuries meant it never happened.

Next year should be a little harder for manxman as he has lost a few on his train, not just their speed but also their experience - on the other hand that Green Jersey will elude him till he gets a little better at climbing - that will cost him some top end speed so i think we will see a closer competition next season.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

The notion that Cavendish is unbeatable.. is, well.....um....

 

[TRDean]

The notion that Cavendish is unbeatable.. is, well.....um....

True...but a win every 10 or so tries is not real good odds....unbeatable no...but the best...yes!!

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

True...but a win every 10 or so tries is not real good odds....unbeatable no...but the best...yes!!

There's a bit of confusion in wording here. The OP title 'Is Mark Cavendish the only real top class pure sprinter?' Nope. Was he the best in his class this season? Yep. I posted that Farrrar win from Tirreno–Adriatico in response to this.

From the current crop of cyclists I think the only one able to beat him is Robbie McEwen

Did Robbie beat Cav in any sprints this year? I don't think so, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Steampunk]

Greipel is his own team-mate, and if they do the same races, then Greipel usually does lead out.

Not sure how this disqualifies Greipel from being a world class sprinter.

 

[hektoren]

Not sure how this disqualifies Greipel from being a world class sprinter.

Neither do I, but Greipel not being able to pass Boasson Hagen when Hagen rode a perfect lead-out for the sprint of the 4th stage of Tour of Poland just might be a better indication of Greipels status as a sprinter.

As for the premise of this entire thread, I'd have to interject a lot of "depends"...
The Columbia-guys rode perfect lead-outs for Cav this season, very predictable and steady, and his success reflect to some extent the rest of the team's quality. I don't mean to detract from his obvious qualities, but
one on one, flat out, I just don't know. It depends. Hushovd beat him in Barcelona under tough conditions, going uphill, as he did last year at TdF. Cav finished 15th. During Tour of Missouri, Hushovd again beat him in the tough third stage after more than 6000 feet of climbing.
But under ideal conditions, and with a perfectly performed leadout strategy, he's sure hard to beat. His jump can be just breathtaking.

 

[BikeCentric]

I'll go with "yes" and I'm defnitely not a Cav fan. Of the riders you mentioned most are past their prime. Bennati is the only mentioned that I think has (had?) a lot of potential but he can't stay healthy and you are right to point to out that he might not ever get back to where he was after this seasons' injuries.

Ciolek is another young pure sprinter but does not seem to be in the same league as Cavendish.

 

[the truth.]

i watched Greipel come from behind a 53 by 11 boonan on a gentle uphill.
fantastic- fantastic

shame on columbia they didnt let him ride the TDF, have to play their best
cards i suppose but the guy has amazing talent and when gets the chance (how many time this year?) unbeatable

 

[Steampunk]

i watched Greipel come from behind a 53 by 11 boonan on a gentle uphill.
fantastic- fantastic

shame on columbia they didnt let him ride the TDF, have to play their best
cards i suppose but the guy has amazing talent and when gets the chance (how many time this year?) unbeatable

He and Cav both have fantastic "kill-rates" in terms of the number of wins per possible sprints.

 

[42x16ss]

I'd like to see how Mark Renshaw would go as a designated sprinter. He seems to have a great knack for positioning and timing that not every sprinter seems to have (Petacchi for example). I suspect that he is another rider who could challenge for wins if he wasn't part of the Cavendish train.

 

[fatandfast]

Gripe with cav

One thing is clear Greipel is moving over for Cav. Greipel has had snap and power that makes him throttle past everybody, look up and win easily. If he is second string to MC they have lots of speed that is hard to match.Good sprints and good racing in Spain.US TV stations are killing it with coverage and the shows are repeated all day for those who have a girl,family or job. Keep up the good work everybody.If you guys do the classics I will start watching Law and Order again.

 

[craig1985]

Not sure how this disqualifies Greipel from being a world class sprinter.

It doesn't. I'm just saying that on a head-to-head basis, Greipel won't often be racing against Cavendish (usually doing lead-out instead), so I'm not sure if you can say he is better then Cavendish, as they have hardly raced against each other and beaten one another.

As for Farrar winning at T-A, I did make that point in my OP didn't I?

 

[Pharazon]

It doesn't. I'm just saying that on a head-to-head basis, Greipel won't often be racing against Cavendish (usually doing lead-out instead), so I'm not sure if you can say he is better then Cavendish, as they have hardly raced against each other and beaten one another.

i think the only tour they've raced together is the 2008 Giro. Cavendish won 2 stages with Greipel riding lead out for him, and Greipel won 1 with Cav leading him out...

i also remember reading a thing somewhere about Cav's 1st season where he was supposed to ride lead of for Greipel and he rode clean off the front of the peoloton by accident and Greipel lost his wheel..

 

[craig1985]

I remember the 2008 Giro well. Cavendish would have won that stage if he didn't decide to let Greipel win. I'm in no way knocking Greipel as a sprinter, he certainly has proven his quality, and has won at least one stage at almost every stage race he has done this year and you can beat what's around you.

 

[pedaling squares]

Maybe I'm just too lazy to create a new thread. Today's CN shows that Theo Bos is leaving Rabo, apparently wanting a guarantee for a GT spot. I have seen little of him on the road, well little sprinting anyway, I did see a pretty effective takedown. Anyway...

He is obviously a world class track sprinter, how is he progressing with road sprints? If he rode a GT, can he survive the hilly days well enough to be competitive on the flat stages? And assuming he has the bike handling skills, the right teammates, and the savoir faire, can this guy challenge MC and the other top sprinters in a bunch gallop?

 

[TRDean]

Maybe I'm just too lazy to create a new thread. Today's CN shows that Theo Bos is leaving Rabo, apparently wanting a guarantee for a GT spot. I have seen little of him on the road, well little sprinting anyway, I did see a pretty effective takedown. Anyway...

He is obviously a world class track sprinter, how is he progressing with road sprints? If he rode a GT, can he survive the hilly days well enough to be competitive on the flat stages? And assuming he has the bike handling skills, the right teammates, and the savoir faire, can this guy challenge MC and the other top sprinters in a bunch gallop?

Earlier in the spring/summer he had a couple of wins and top 3 placings in some minor one day races in the Netherlands and Belgium I think. His sprinting is pretty good...he just needs time to develop more savy. Don't know what he has done following his suspension.