Is the "Blood Transfusion Era" ending?

[Polish]

Is the Blood Transfusion Era coming to an end?
At least as far as GC DangerMen using it to win the TdF?

An argument could be made that the EPO Era ended when the initial test was developed back in 2001'ish. At least for the GC DangerMen.
Lance most likely stopped using EPO; Alberto probably never did.

Then came the dependence on Blood Transfusing...

But now with the new tests being developed to bust the blood transfusers, will the TdF move another step closer towards Cleanliness?

Hope so.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Interesting that the end of the "blood transfusion era" coincides precisely with the retirement of one Lance Armstrong.

 

[Protein]

No it's the beginning of the tin containers era...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I thought this thread was going to be about gene doping. Repoxygen, stem cells, etc.

If anything, blood transfusions will fall out of favor because they are somewhat risky and intrusive.

Understand that there are various forms of EPO, and some are definitely still used, just microdosed, and I'd guess AC has certainly benefited from it. Remember, Mosquera was just busted for hydroxyethyl starch, which is an expander likely used to cover EPO use. There's also no reliable test for some EMP's such as Hemomer or Hematide. It's also very likely Dynepo is in use, as it's very hard to detect with certainty.

Don't forget that HGH, IGF-1 and other drugs very difficult to detect as well. The list goes on...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

It's only a matter of time before CamelBak realizes a market opportunity and introduces the CamelBak BloodPak (r)

 

[hfer07]

I thought this thread was going to be about gene doping. Repoxygen, stem cells, etc.

If anything, blood transfusions will fall out of favor because they are somewhat risky and intrusive.

Understand that there are various forms of EPO, and some are definitely still used, just microdosed, and I'd guess AC has certainly benefited from it. Remember, Mosquera was just busted for hydroxyethyl starch, which is an expander likely used to cover EPO use. There's also no reliable test for some EMP's such as Hemomer or Hematide. It's also very likely Dynepo is in use, as it's very hard to detect with certainty.

Don't forget that HGH, IGF-1 and other drugs very difficult to detect as well. The list goes on...

AICAR is in full use, along with Human-duplicated EPO & cattle-based manufactured EPO and so on....
bottom line: The dopers & their doctors are always ahead of controls-If Blood Doping is detectable-they have the replacement in the works..

 

[Polish]

No it's the beginning of the tin containers era...
]

History shows that Pro Cyclist Dopers use the technologies and methods from the Medical Community. If the Med Comm do not have systems set up for tin or glass, it would be hard for the dopers to improvise.

AICAR is in full use, along with Human-duplicated EPO & cattle-based manufactured EPO and so on....
bottom line: The dopers & their doctors are always ahead of controls-If Blood Doping is detectable-they have the replacement in the works..

I do not think that is entirely true.

There are more and more cases of the controls being ahead of the dopers. It is a new ballgame.

Eg, 2008 CERA Test, 2010 Blood Bag Plastics Test.

What will be next?? Bwaahaahaa.

Floyd said in Australia the Scientists should be more open with the Dopers lol.
"Don't be so sneaky, guys. And Dopers need to be more honest too" lol lol.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Indeed hfer07.

 

[flicker]

History shows that Pro Cyclist Dopers use the technologies and methods from the Medical Community. If the Med Comm do not have systems set up for tin or glass, it would be hard for the dopers to improvise.



I do not think that is entirely true.

There are more and more cases of the controls being ahead of the dopers. It is a new ballgame.

Eg, 2008 CERA Test, 2010 Blood Bag Plastics Test.

What will be next?? Bwaahaahaa.

Floyd said in Australia the Scientists should be more open with the Dopers lol.
"Don't be so sneaky, guys. And Dopers need to be more honest too" lol lol.

sorry guys, the dopers are always ahead of the medical community and the testers.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Isn´t it that all samples are frozen for 8 years? To test them when new tests are available, like this plasticizer test?

I bet they won´t ever do it, b/c they are not willing to sanction 120 riders at once. They like a slow death of cycling more then a fast one with a then complete new start.

It could be all so easy ...

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Why use transfusions at all instead of an undetectable blood booster? That must be much easier. Unless it's more difficult to conceal a considerable increase in RBC's that way?

What will the dopers do if a total body Hb test gets implemented? Surely, that would limit blood boosting drastically unless you're beyond reproach?

AICAR is in full use, along with Human-duplicated EPO & cattle-based manufactured EPO and so on....
bottom line: The dopers & their doctors are always ahead of controls-If Blood Doping is detectable-they have the replacement in the works..

AICAR is too expensive to be in full use. Most riders aren't exactly loaded.

 

[eyemgh]

Glass...

Remember the good, old-fashioned IV bottles? They'll just store their blood in glass. It isn't as convenient or easy to deal with, but it is inert.

M

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

AICAR is too expensive to be in full use. Most riders aren't exactly loaded.

Indeed. That's exactly what "2-speed peloton" really means.

 

[luckyboy]

AICAR is in full use

Definitely saw that they developed a test for it a while ago. And some similar thing.

Edit: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...cs-over-pills-that-mimic-exercise-882608.html

AICAR & GW 501516. The Salk Institute in California worked with WADA to develop a test in 08.


Also, it'd be nice if we had a sticky thread which listed all the different types of drugs (HGH, all the EPO variations, IGF-1 etc.) and a little bit of info about them.

 

[HoustonHammer]

Isn´t it that all samples are frozen for 8 years? To test them when new tests are available, like this plasticizer test?

I bet they won´t ever do it, b/c they are not willing to sanction 120 riders at once. They like a slow death of cycling more then a fast one with a then complete new start.

It could be all so easy ...

I think the handling of this latest AC positive suggests you're quite right about the willingness of the powers that be to sanction a bunch of riders at the same time.

But if the UCI could get over that, the threat of retroactive testing might be a pretty good tool for making riders think harder about doping. Some riders are just there to make a basic living, but for others, getting caught down the road and having victories voided could be a strong disincentive to doping.

 

[Vonn Brinkman]

Nah.
Blood doping is still preferred. Look at Clentador. He probably did use it, and I bet that the top ten of this year's Tour did as well.
I think blood doping is safer (if done correctly), than using CERA or EPO or any other manufactured substance.
But then again, Kohl recently told us that he only got caught once in a 100 times using CERA and other drugs.....so I am not really sure.
Doping continues to rewarded, and too little dopers are actually caught.

 

[Roninho]

There will be new doping products. Plastics can be found in dope-tests? Ok, use glass storage. The first version of epo can be traced? Ok let's use new generation Cera. Etc. Etc. With stories of doping being used even before the medicine is commonly used in the medical market it is imo safe to say that dope test will never be able to catch a high % of the dopers.

The only way to catch a high % is to do re-tests a couple of years later with modern technologies. I cannot imagine Tyler Hamilton doing his year round doping programm with many, many doping products (which has been published before) if he knew he was going to be retested 1 year, 3 year and 7 years later with a huge probability that he is going to get caught for something. You'd only do this if you are really stupid, or if you are like 33 and think: i have only 1-2 years left and want to get some good results and a last good contract, and don't care if i get popped 5 years after i am retired.

Off course there are disadvantages to this method, but imo in the long run this method will end a lot of doping.

 

[dbrower]

Nah.
Blood doping is still preferred. Look at Clentador. He probably did use it, and I bet that the top ten of this year's Tour did as well.
I think blood doping is safer (if done correctly), than using CERA or EPO or any other manufactured substance.

I don't see that at all -- pharmaceuticals from known source don't have the same complications as blood storage and re-infusion (big needles), and the effects are better. I can't imagine anyone wanting to blood dope in preference to EPO given equal opportunity.

There haven't been notable "EPO deaths" in a long time, so that complaint is historic, and not currently relevant. The 50% hct limit seems to have very effectively solved that problem.

If I were an opportunistic person with manufacturing capability, I'd be tooling up to make glass-lined blood storage bottles in convenient sizes with flattish form factors for easy storage and transportation. Maybe with an accessory line of shock-absorbing conformal foam wrappers, all marketed at http://www.notJoePapp.com

-dB

 

[Polish]

I agree with Mr Vaughters when he states in a recent CN interview that:

"The test is being overlooked and I don’t understand why that is. If it’s true that a test for autologous blood transfusions, has taken place, well for me that’s the best news I’ve heard in anti-doping in a long time. It’s incredibly good news.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughters-calls-test-for-blood-transfusion-good-news
(Mr Vaughters Interview is certainly more upbeat and positive than the Walsh interview.)

Seriously, I think the tide is turning - the Scientists are becoming sharper than the Doping Establishment. Momentum has turned.