Jan Ullrich still has it!!!

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He may also have won 04, since without Armstrong the race dynamics would have changed and he probably doesn't lose so much time in the Pyrenees.

And as he is going for 7 wins he doesn't get named in Operation Puerto :p

P.S. Just realised that you're giving him 02 as well. You're suggesting that it was defeats by Armstrong that sent him off the rails?

Anyway, going for 6 (the record) then in 06.
He could have won but was over 2 minutes behind Basso so would have to make that up somehow during the mountains and Klöden was stronger then him as well. It depends on how much time Basso thinks he needs for the time trials and how much he and his team can blow the race up.

I think so. He not only lost to Armstrong but got dominated by him and couldn’t even win a stage. Then a long while ago, and I don’t remember the thread, but multiple people brought up losing to Armstrong took a big hit to his mental status, especially after he was supposed to be in his best shape for 01, and that could have caused him to drink more and the drugs to overcome his depression and find relief. He raced once in 2002 due to injury in January, got the DUI in May, drugs in June, and then let go by Telekom do something was happening then. Maybe with success the two years before he comes back and wins after the injury, maybe he doesn’t.
 
Quite different situation. It was free for Armstrong to be 'generous' and wait there, it wasn't two years later for Ullrich.
This. Armstrong is extremely skillful manipulator and he knew exactly how it has zero effect on the end result and did it for publicity. Hell, it wouldn’t surprise me even if he quickly calculated that there’s a chance his “generosity” might turn out to be a far more costly obligation for his competition some time in the future.
 
There were no mental health conversations back then. Ullrich went into it young and there was no way he or most of these former riders could stay immune to everything. A detrimental way to break you down physically and mentally until there was only a shell left in most cases. That had nothing to do with being weak, just human.

I hope he finds peace within himself.
 
There were no mental health conversations back then.
While I agree with the rest, he himself said he was depressed about his knee injury and this was the same injury that kept him out of the 1999 Tour.

“Ullrich, a four-time runner-up in the Tour de France, said he accepted total responsibility for his “idiotic” actions.
“It was an incredibly idiotic thing to do, which is inexcusable and I take full responsibility,” the East German-born rider admitted. However Ullrich said he had decided to paint the town red because he was depressed as he had felt no tangible signs the knee had improved since the operation.
“It is understandable that one wants to escape the four walls of the clinic… I was going stir crazy,” he said.”

 
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While I agree with the rest, he himself said he was depressed about his knee injury and this was the same injury that kept him out of the 1999 Tour.

“Ullrich, a four-time runner-up in the Tour de France, said he accepted total responsibility for his “idiotic” actions.
“It was an incredibly idiotic thing to do, which is inexcusable and I take full responsibility,” the East German-born rider admitted. However Ullrich said he had decided to paint the town red because he was depressed as he had felt no tangible signs the knee had improved since the operation.
“It is understandable that one wants to escape the four walls of the clinic… I was going stir crazy,” he said.”

To me that just sounds like a problem that wasnt a problem, until it was a big problem.

Which stems from issues of not speaking out and not being comfortable in dealing with the issues. Eventually escaping and submitting to cope mechanisms.

Getting a serious injury takes you out physically and the body heals, but the mind usually takes a long time. Longer time in many cases.

It is a lot of different factors involved in getting to a place of helplessness and mental health is surely one of them.

Him taking all the responsibility is admirable but also a bit foolish and naive to believe. Ullrich was definitely taken advantage off by other people in his life or around him, which has caused a lot of problems for him. Yes, he in the end has made a lot decisions that have affected him deeply but it is also decisions made in a fragile state and out of desperation. It cant be all his own doing that he has ended up in the place and state he is in.

We can only hope he can find some stability and peace again.
 
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This. Armstrong is extremely skillful manipulator and he knew exactly how it has zero effect on the end result and did it for publicity. Hell, it wouldn’t surprise me even if he quickly calculated that there’s a chance his “generosity” might turn out to be a far more costly obligation for his competition some time in the future.
Armstrong only waited briefly anyway, then used the excuse that Kivilev (?) who was in the gc mix had caught up on the descent and attacked, to continue racing. Ullrich mostly caught up on his own accord (though was eventually dropped again on the final climb of the day of course).
 
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He could have won but was over 2 minutes behind Basso so would have to make that up somehow during the mountains and Klöden was stronger then him as well. It depends on how much time Basso thinks he needs for the time trials and how much he and his team can blow the race up.

I think so. He not only lost to Armstrong but got dominated by him and couldn’t even win a stage. Then a long while ago, and I don’t remember the thread, but multiple people brought up losing to Armstrong took a big hit to his mental status, especially after he was supposed to be in his best shape for 01, and that could have caused him to drink more and the drugs to overcome his depression and find relief. He raced once in 2002 due to injury in January, got the DUI in May, drugs in June, and then let go by Telekom do something was happening then. Maybe with success the two years before he comes back and wins after the injury, maybe he doesn’t.
My suggestion was that he wouldn't have been 2 minutes behind Basso, because even if he had been dropped (on Tourmalet and PDB) he wouldn't have been dropped nearly as early without pace setting from Postal/Azevedo.

Basso probably would have discovered that Ullrich was on bad days only when it was too late. Also remember that Ivan was only just developing the mentality of a potential GT winner during 04, having finished 7th in 03. He was possibly surprised himself to be riding alongside Lance.
 
While I agree with the rest, he himself said he was depressed about his knee injury and this was the same injury that kept him out of the 1999 Tour.

“Ullrich, a four-time runner-up in the Tour de France, said he accepted total responsibility for his “idiotic” actions.
“It was an incredibly idiotic thing to do, which is inexcusable and I take full responsibility,” the East German-born rider admitted. However Ullrich said he had decided to paint the town red because he was depressed as he had felt no tangible signs the knee had improved since the operation.
“It is understandable that one wants to escape the four walls of the clinic… I was going stir crazy,” he said.”

Interesting theory. I always felt that Jan's slightly slower climbing pace was due to the post 2000 world being slightly different to the pre 2000 one.

But anyway, if the knee really was still bad, then to win a Vuelta and claim many more Paris podiums with it is incredible.
 
a better story and post from Ullrich compared to the past news we were receiving. He is also looking good.

 
There might be another thread about the new book about Ullrich but since this is THE Ulle thread it probably belongs here too. I haven't read the book (yet ?) but listened to the author in this long podcast here https://player.fm/series/the-cycling-podcast/s10-ep64-the-best-there-never-was and while it was quite interesting it doesn't really sound like he's got anything new to share on the subject, lots of "ifs and maybe" after interviewing people who were close to Ullrich (no mention of Klodi though). Sadly he could not get an interview with Ullrich (he met his agent and it sounded like it could be possible if he paid for it...).
 
Important today: Happy birthday, dear Rudy Pevenage! :)

Ulle and Rudy were always close, and still are. Ulle would not be who he is without Rudy.

Rudy, thank you for what you did for Ulle, and for the pleasure and joy you gave us cycling fans in these unforgettable years! :)

Have a long and healthy life! :)
 
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There might be another thread about the new book about Ullrich but since this is THE Ulle thread it probably belongs here too. I haven't read the book (yet ?) but listened to the author in this long podcast here https://player.fm/series/the-cycling-podcast/s10-ep64-the-best-there-never-was and while it was quite interesting it doesn't really sound like he's got anything new to share on the subject, lots of "ifs and maybe" after interviewing people who were close to Ullrich (no mention of Klodi though). Sadly he could not get an interview with Ullrich (he met his agent and it sounded like it could be possible if he paid for it...).
I thought it was a pretty engrossing listen. Daniel Friebe has a pretty good record as a journalist and biographer, I was only a bit afraid he would dance around the obvious clinic issues. But apparently that's pretty well covered. Especially fun hearing that Dr. Ferrari would go incognito to spy on Armstrong's rivals, to find out what they were up to.

That Ullrich wasn't interviewed for the book isn't really a deal-breaker for me. It sounded like he's still not in the best of shape, and it seems doubtful that he would have opened himself up to the author. Hopefully we might hear something from him in the future, but I wouldn't count on it
 
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I thought it was a pretty engrossing listen. Daniel Friebe has a pretty good record as a journalist and biographer, I was only a bit afraid he would dance around the obvious clinic issues. But apparently that's pretty well covered. Especially fun hearing that Dr. Ferrari would go incognito to spy on Armstrong's rivals, to find out what they were up to.

That Ullrich wasn't interviewed for the book isn't really a deal-breaker for me. It sounded like he's still not in the best of shape, and it seems doubtful that he would have opened himself up to the author. Hopefully we might hear something from him in the future, but I wouldn't count on it
As someone whose first cycling memory is the final stage of the Tour 1997, I'm enjoying the book very much. True, not much in there is entirely new, or surprising (partly because Armstrong and Pevenage have told some of their stories themselves since the interviews with Friebe, LA on his podcast, Pevenage in his own book), but it still makes for a very good read.

I hope many people (especially in Germany) will end up reading it; it doesn't "restore" his image as such, but when they're finished they'll be able to think of him as a person and not a caricature, which to some he was even during his career, among fans and detractors alike.
 
Important today: Happy birthday, dear Rudy Pevenage! :)

Ulle and Rudy were always close, and still are. Ulle would not be who he is without Rudy.

Rudy, thank you for what you did for Ulle, and for the pleasure and joy you gave us cycling fans in these unforgettable years! :)

Have a long and healthy life! :)
A part of me thinks that having someone other than Rudy on his side to work on the tactical side would have been better for him, but Jan really trusted him and didn't want to change things.
 
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Wow, he seems to be as fit as a fiddle ! He must still be able to motor uphill, the VO2Max never goes away ! It would be great if he was on Strava !

I'm listening to the book on Audible these days as I ride my bike on Zwift, good fun but not too many scoops so far, everyone seems to have their own story and they're sticking to it...I'm at the point where Jacksche arrives in 1999 and so far there's no hint that Ulle's been on the sauce.
 
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Wow, he seems to be as fit as a fiddle ! He must still be able to motor uphill, the VO2Max never goes away ! It would be great if he was on Strava !

I'm listening to the book on Audible these days as I ride my bike on Zwift, good fun but not too many scoops so far, everyone seems to have their own story and they're sticking to it...I'm at the point where Jacksche arrives in 1999 and so far there's no hint that Ulle's been on the sauce.
I guess the book is chronological then and the 1998 sample retests come later.

At least I hope so as otherwise I would doubt the quality.
 
Well it's going back and forth, I've been through the Lance interview where he talks about 2005...
I'm not too sure about that book TBH. It's interesting but as I suspected, the fact that he hasn't been able to talk to Ulle means he's got no real leg to stand on and he skirts around the "issues". There's a lot of "he says, she says" stuff too, like Jacksche vs Pevenage or vs Godefroot. Also it's hard to believe the Becker or Straub ( sp ?) knew nothing of what was going on.
 
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Wow, he seems to be as fit as a fiddle ! He must still be able to motor uphill, the VO2Max never goes away ! It would be great if he was on Strava !

I'm listening to the book on Audible these days as I ride my bike on Zwift, good fun but not too many scoops so far, everyone seems to have their own story and they're sticking to it...I'm at the point where Jacksche arrives in 1999 and so far there's no hint that Ulle's been on the sauce.
They were all "on the sauce", even today nothing has or could change, but it depends on how you qualify "the souce".
 

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