Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard: The Butterfly Effect

[kn0s]

Wasn't he in/out of the ICU for a week?

What? Who? Jonas? Think he was in the ICU/hospital 12days.

Pogacar was in and out same day as far as I know, got some kind of surgery and a brace on.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I find it very hard to believe that he'll be even competitive at the Tour.
Imo just a smoke and mirrors psyop by him and the team to mess with the other teams.

 

[KZD]

Good to see Vingegaard back on the road. Hope that he can still build a decent condition ahead of the Tour.

 

[zekance]

For comparison, for those pessimists that said there is no comparison betwen the injuries Jonas sustained and the time off bike with regards to Pogačar in 2023.
Pogačar first time outside on the bike was 19. May and he couldn't stand on the pedals till June (we don't know if Jonas can stand on pedals yet, but I imagine that a wrist injury is more complicated with regards to this).
Now I imagine Jonas might have missed more aerobic training because of lung and ribs injury, but with a solid base already there, that can hopefully be regained with little consequences.

So things are again looking up for one of the most competitive Tour starts in a long time.

There really is no comparison between the injuries sustained by the two riders. But like I was trying to say a few pages back, the recovery time should be quite comparable.
As we now know it took Jonas 33 days to get back on the road bike while Tadej took 26 days to ride outside again. Jonas was indeed out for longer, but he started riding outside with 53 days left to the TDF while Tadej was back on the road bike with 41 days left.

Not trying to get into a fight over which is worse. I just want to say that IMO if everything goes without setbacks (for both) from today to the start of the TDF, I feel like we will get Jonas-Pogačar 1-2 for the 4th time in a row. I would love for Primož to get involved but I just can't see it.

 

[Netserk]

There really is no comparison between the injuries sustained by the two riders. But like I was trying to say a few pages back, the recovery time should be quite comparable.
As we now know it took Jonas 33 days to get back on the road bike while Tadej took 26 days to ride outside again. Jonas was indeed out for longer, but he started riding outside with 53 days left to the TDF while Tadej was back on the road bike with 41 days left.

Not trying to get into a fight over which is worse. I just want to say that IMO if everything goes without setbacks (for both) from today to the start of the TDF, I feel like we will get Jonas-Pogačar 1-2 for the 4th time in a row. I would love for Primož to get involved but I just can't see it.

Date of riding on a bike outside has quite different implications for the two injuries. Both in what they could do before that and what they can do from there on. Most notably, I'm quite confident that Pogi could train for longer on a stationary bike before his first ride outside.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I would love for Primož to get involved but I just can't see it.

You are being too pesimistic regarding Primoz. Teddy's level post Giro may be way less ET than some expect. Vingo had a problem with an organ directly responsible for oxygen supply, this is serious stuff.

 

[Rackham]

I find it very hard to believe that he'll be even competitive at the Tour.
Imo just a smoke and mirrors psyop by him and the team to mess with the other teams.

I don't think it's a psyop at all. I think it's... their job. And Vingegaard's job as well.

He's required (& so is the team) to make all the sacrifices & efforts possible to work towards the goal which the paying sponsors want, aka the Tour. There's no need to read too much into any of these announcements, i.e. it's simply expected of them.

Whether he's in condition to challenge for yellow is an entirely different conversation because there's simply no humanely possible way he won't be affected in July by a month off the bike in April after a serious injury.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Date of riding on a bike outside has quite different implications for the two injuries. Both in what they could do before that and what they can do from there on. Most notably, I'm quite confident that Pogi could train for longer on a stationary bike before his first ride outside.

As one who has trained at various times (albeit at masters level, which is 12X lower than these guys) with a broken wrist and with broken ribs (not even the laundry list of other injuries Jonas has) I would almost prefer 2 broken wrists to what Jonas has. Pogi probably missed less than a week of pedaling, and casts are a lot better than back when I melted my first plaster cast off on the trainer and had to go in for a replacement.

 

[TrekCyclist]

I would very much like to see a Vingegard in competitive shape in France on 29th June.
But - I somhow have the feeling his form then might be enough for a Cyclo maybe, but not for the Tour, unfortunately

 

[SHAD0W93]

If Vingegaard is able to be competitive at the Tour it would be a massive feat of recovery.

 

[Cookster15]

As one who has trained at various times (albeit at masters level, which is 12X lower than these guys) with a broken wrist and with broken ribs (not even the laundry list of other injuries Jonas has) I would almost prefer 2 broken wrists to what Jonas has. Pogi probably missed less than a week of pedaling, and casts are a lot better than back when I melted my first plaster cast off on the trainer and had to go in for a replacement.

Agree with this. But in Pogacar's defence, I think his collapse on Loze on stage 17 pointed to a lack of base conditioning regardless of when he was able to ride a stationery bike. You can't take short cuts, it takes time to build that base and recovery ability for grand tour racing. "A week of peddling" is a lot. What makes sense to me is he emptied his reserves in the TT, then paid the price the following day. Maybe on stage 16 knowing his time deficits to Vingegaard via his team car he pushed even deeper?

For Vingegaard, he has serious injury to his lung. Doubt he could push any kind of decent watts yet even on a trainer. So it would impact his prep for the TdF much more than Pogi's LBL crash last year.

 

[kn0s]

Agree with this. But in Pogacar's defence, I think his collapse on Loze on stage 17 pointed to a lack of base conditioning regardless of when he was able to ride a stationery bike. You can't take short cuts, it takes time to build that base and recovery ability for grand tour racing. "A week of peddling" is a lot. What makes sense to me is he emptied his reserves in the TT, then paid the price the following day. Maybe on stage 16 knowing his time deficits to Vingegaard via his team car he pushed even deeper?

For Vingegaard, he has serious injury to his lung. Doubt he could push any kind of decent watts yet even on a trainer. So it would impact his prep for the TdF much more than Pogi's LBL crash last year.

Well that "A week of peddling" was after his spring season, it was his last race. So would be resting up anyway one would think.

He said he blew his stomach up with too many calories, why not believe him?

I think it's very possible that he/the team made mistakes, it wouldn't be the first time when pushed to the limit.

Edit: now that I think about it, he might have said his body couldn't use the calories, but didn't say it was because he took too much, I really can remember. Can't find the article anymore. Anyways, I always found it strange if he could bounce back if shape was the problem.

 

[RedheadDane]

and casts are a lot better than back when I melted my first plaster cast off on the trainer and had to go in for a replacement.

You did what?

 

[ogotemmeli]

I've been reading this thread since the accident.
As someone who has experienced a neumothorax let me try to explain.
Lungs are delicate.
I was in hospital for three weeks. I was 17 years old. It was pure torture. This happened to me more than 40 years ago. I still ride my bike.
A neumothorax is bad, it is extremely painful. I remember feeling that my heart had moved to the centre of my body.
Obviously Jonas has had much better medical help then I recieved.
Let me just say, when I got home I could not walk more than 50metres. It took me six months before I could go back to school.

This is the point I want to make:

In today's video listen to how Jonas is breathing *after* he has spoken. It is as though he is suffering from pulmonary fibrosis. He is out of breadth. He is not well. He needs a holiday and something proper too eat - in order for his body to recover its strength after the trauma.

 

[Cookster15]

Anyways, I always found it strange if he could bounce back if shape was the problem.

Maybe you are right he and his team made mistakes. But mistakes can be learned from. As for bouncing back, he never bounced back from Loze.

 

[Froome]

He's training outside again

https://twitter.com/x/status/1787804004728164723

He is so fu***** back! Great news.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He is so fu***** back! Great news.

Oh, you're back too. Not so great news.

I kid, welcome back.

 

[Froome]

Skeletor back on the road again. We dont know how injuries will affect his form but judging by his comments I wouldnt rule out him appearing in decent shape at the start of the Tour. Will Visma LAB allow sub 100% level? Time will tell. Teddy had better save some of his Giro efforts for later as his kryptonite might be back in July!

Like i said some weeks ago, even if he starts the Tour a bit cooked like in the Vuelta 2023, not at 100%, i like his chances of winning the race, if he is able to improve in the first 2 weeks and get's in peak shape in the last week of the Tour where everything will be decided on Plateau de beille, Isola 2000, Couillolle and the last TT.

 

[Froome]

I don't think it's a psyop at all. I think it's... their job. And Vingegaard's job as well.

He's required (& so is the team) to make all the sacrifices & efforts possible to work towards the goal which the paying sponsors want, aka the Tour. There's no need to read too much into any of these announcements, i.e. it's simply expected of them.

Whether he's in condition to challenge for yellow is an entirely different conversation because there's simply no humanely possible way he won't be affected in July by a month off the bike in April after a serious injury.

I don't think he was a month off the bike. Maybe two weeks. Certainly he was already on the stationary bike.

I don't believe they will risk anything with Vingegaard's health. They will not risky anything with one of his most important riders. They can't afford to risk his health when he is still young and can give to them a lot of victories in the next years. They will not risk anything because one Tour France.

If they will go with Vingegaard to the Tour, that's because there will no problems with his health.

 

[Hugh Januss]

You did what?

Probably before your time young lady. Casts used to be made out of plaster of paris and gauze and when they got wet enough they would just melt and turn back to just gauze kind of held together by pudding.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Probably before your time young lady. Casts used to be made out of plaster of paris and gauze and when they got wet enough they would just melt and turn back to just gauze kind of held together by pudding.

I was under the impression RHD was old and tiny?

 

[kn0s]

Maybe you are right he and his team made mistakes. But mistakes can be learned from. As for bouncing back, he never bounced back from Loze.

One more stage win is not exactly dead and gone.

UAE often get criticized for bad tactics and other mistakes, but they make up for it with money and raw rider talent.

My opinion is that it's more or less the same with Pogacar. For all his fantastic attributes, any particular race intelligence is not one of them. He doesn't need it(mostly), his genetics are simply second to none. But when the competition is equal or in some instances better, any little mistake is punished hard and suddenly you are forth in a two man sprint.

 

[RedheadDane]

Probably before your time young lady. Casts used to be made out of plaster of paris and gauze and when they got wet enough they would just melt and turn back to just gauze kind of held together by pudding.

I know what plaster casts are.
I thought you deliberately melted it by... I dunno...

 

[noob]

I've been reading this thread since the accident.
As someone who has experienced a neumothorax let me try to explain.
Lungs are delicate.
I was in hospital for three weeks. I was 17 years old. It was pure torture. This happened to me more than 40 years ago. I still ride my bike.
A neumothorax is bad, it is extremely painful. I remember feeling that my heart had moved to the centre of my body.
Obviously Jonas has had much better medical help then I recieved.
Let me just say, when I got home I could not walk more than 50metres. It took me six months before I could go back to school.

This is the point I want to make:

In today's video listen to how Jonas is breathing *after* he has spoken. It is as though he is suffering from pulmonary fibrosis. He is out of breadth. He is not well. He needs a holiday and something proper too eat - in order for his body to recover its strength after the trauma.

This was my thought too. He can't breath properly, he ain't moving his upper body even a bit when talking. He shows zero enthusiasm to do anything. Even standing there looks like pure torture

 

[scribers]

I find it very hard to believe that he'll be even competitive at the Tour.
Imo just a smoke and mirrors psyop by him and the team to mess with the other teams.

I think it is cruel to his super fans to do this