Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[Peyroteo94]

Maybe I'm detached from reality or maybe people underrate what Jonas did on Valdezcaray.
Almeida literally rode everyone off his wheel (bar Pidcock) on 6%. That was a brutally hard climb.

Nowhere near from what Pogi did on Combloux

 

[Rou]

I think Almeida looks stringer than those 2 but saying Tadej couldn't dominate him... I have a hard time believing Almeida would lose less than 2 minutes to Teddy on Hautacam. Or even less than a 1' on Peyragudes.

Do you remember when Pogacar said that he believed Joao can beat Jonas if he hadn't crashed and he wasn't sure after his Tour crash.
Tadej knows Joao's level.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Do you remember when Pogacar said that he believed Joao can beat Jonas if he hadn't crashed and he wasn't sure after his Tour crash.
Tadej knows Joao's level.

This is Pogacar trying to be a good teammate. Of course he couldn't tell Vingegaard was better than João. Vingegaard is not in the same level from what he showed in the Tour. I'm not saying he is far but he is not on the same level.

 

[Rou]

This is Pogacar trying to be a good teammate. Of course he couldn't tell Vingegaard was better than João. Vingegaard is not in the same level from what he showed in the Tour. I'm not saying he is far but he is not on the same level.

Will you change your opinion if Jonas drops a nuke today?
Or you base your opinion only on how you perceive things and not objective numbers?

 

[Cycling111]

I think Almeida looks stringer than those 2 but saying Tadej couldn't dominate him... I have a hard time believing Almeida would lose less than 2 minutes to Teddy on Hautacam. Or even less than a 1' on Peyragudes.

If Pogacar gained more than a minute on Vingegaard at Hautacam, he´d have gained more than two minutes on Almeida.

Almeida couldn't dropped Vingegaard yesterday, who is clearly tired from the Tour.
Pidcock dropped Vingegaard two days ago; he wouldn't have done it in the Tour.
Vingegaard, with his shape at the Tour, would have dropped Almeida yesterday. Extrapolate that to Hautacam and the time Pogacar put into Vingegaard.

 

[Rou]

Pidcock dropped Vingegaard two days ago; he wouldn't have done it in the Tour.

And a washed Van Aert dropped Pogi like a bag of potatoes in the Tour.
Explain that or give excuses.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Will you change your opinion if Jonas drops a nuke today?
Or you base your opinion only on how you perceive things and not objective numbers?

No. I will probably not change my opinion. Pogacar isn't here so it's hard to tell in any moment if he is better.
And no, Vingegaard never showed something close (until now) to his Ventoux performance.

 

[Red Rick]

Maybe I'm detached from reality or maybe people underrate what Jonas did on Valdezcaray.
Almeida literally rode everyone off his wheel (bar Pidcock) on 6%. That was a brutally hard climb.

It was a big 25 minute effort. But it was also a very fresh effort with a big tailwind. I think the difference in form mainly matters for hard mountain stages and fatigued efforts.

Roglic for example was really struggling on hard mountain stages but he could still wake up hungover at the Tour and smash everyone other than Vingegaard and Pogacar in the MTT and on Mont Ventoux.

 

[Peyroteo94]

And a washed Van Aert dropped Pogi like a bag of potatoes in the Tour.
Explain that or give excuses.

You know it's different. Vingegaard in the Tour didn't get dropped by Pogacar in those hills.

 

[Rou]

It was a big 25 minute effort. But it was also a very fresh effort with a big tailwind. I think the difference in form mainly matters for hard mountain stages and fatigued efforts.

Roglic for example was really struggling on hard mountain stages but he could still wake up hungover at the Tour and smash everyone other than Vingegaard and Pogacar in the MTT and on Mont Ventoux.

You're right but here are some facts.
Yesterday was a 202 km Angliru stage. In 2023 it was 124 km.
Yesterday's speed was 41.33 km/h. In 2023 it was 38.09 km/h
And Almeida and Vingegaard were still 33 secs faster than in 2023.
Yesterday's performance from both was MUCH STRONGER than in 2023.

 

[Peyroteo94]

@Rou It is important to analyze the context. Doing good numbers is not that hard when the stage is flat until the final climb. Vingegaard did almost a TT against Almeida and gained 20 seconds (4 just in the leadout of Jorgenson).

 

[Rou]

You know it's different. Vingegaard in the Tour didn't get dropped by Pogacar in those hills.

I just pointed that you can't make comparisons like this.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I just pointed that you can't make comparisons like this.

Yes you can. Pogacar is the benchmark (by far) on explosive hills (steep hills btw). Pidcock is not close to his level (no one is IMO, and I think you agree with me).
Okay, Pidcock made incredible numbers but when he is facing Pogacar, what I see is total dominance from Pogacar (SB and FW).
Edit: So hard to see a peak Vingegaard being dropped by Pidders.

 

[topcat]

Imagine complaining others are detached from reality while cycing W2W's bs algorithm as evidence.

The data never lies. It's the interpretations that are lies. It actually is uplifting to BULLSHlT your way through life.

 

[Rou]

My point is that people are diminishing Almeida's level by saying that Jonas is far weaker than in the Tour.
They are basing this on the past. But the present is that Almeida in 2025 has clearly made a step up.
IMO Vingegaard is close to his TDF numbers but he is facing a rider that is in his best career shape.
Remove Almeida and this Vuelta is a walkover for Jonas.

 

[Red Rick]

You're right but here are some facts.
Yesterday was a 202 km Angliru stage. In 2023 it was 124 km.
Yesterday's speed was 41.33 km/h. In 2023 it was 38.09 km/h
And Almeida and Vingegaard were still 33 secs faster than in 2023.
Yesterday's performance from both was MUCH STRONGER than in 2023.

Well the speed is naturally gonna be higher because the extra 80km was mainly flat. They were slower on Cordal than in 2023 yesterday.

Overall distance does matter, and I don't doubt that in totality, this was a better performance than in 2025, but if you look at W2W Angliru often has many riders riding their supposed PBs and given it was paced very aggressively I find it very unlikely that Vingegaard in his best form only puts 30s into Sepp Kuss and Jai Hindley.

 

[Peyroteo94]

My point is that people are diminishing Almeida's level by saying that Jonas is far weaker than in the Tour.
They are basing this on the past. But the present is that Almeida in 2025 has clearly made a step up.
IMO Vingegaard is close to his TDF numbers but he is facing a rider that is in his best career shape.
Remove Almeida and this Vuelta is a walkover for Jonas.

I never said he was far weaker.
It's also clear Almeida stepped up his game this year.

 

[Cycling111]

Do you remember when Pogacar said that he believed Joao can beat Jonas if he hadn't crashed and he wasn't sure after his Tour crash.
Tadej knows Joao's level.

Yes, just as Pogacar knows firsthand how tired such a tough Tour left them. When Pogacar says Almeida could beat Vingegaard, he's considering how he and Vingegaard finished the Tour.

Almeida would have been further behind of Vingegaard at the Tour.
That's something I don't agree with Pogacar on. Almeida was injured, but without injury, and with such a tough Tour, I think Almeida would be at a lower level in the Vuelta. He's like this because he doesn't have the fatigue from the Tour.

 

[Peyroteo94]

We need to look at the overall picture rather than cherry-pick stage by stage to suit whatever results we or others want, right?

People cite Ventoux as his best performance, he was a minute faster than Lipowitz there. But by that logic, we could say Arensman is on Vingegaard and Pogacars level just because he beat them on La Plagne.

The only people who engage in this kind of cherry-picking are the same ones who keep getting proven wrong time and time again like clockwork everytime. Obviously, we have to look at the full picture throughout the season to contextualize things properly and not cherrypick one and one stage that fits whatever narrative.

Don't underestimate Lipowitz. He showed sn amazing level in the mountains (both in Dauphiné and TdF).

 

[P4rthen0n]

How can anyone not be impressed with Vingegaard?
He's not an alien for nothing. This guy is a beast.
Yesterday he didn't have the legs to attack, but he also didn't let the wheel go even 1 meter at any point.

In fact, after so many stages in the Vuelta, the only time he showed weakness was during Pidcock's attack... and even then, he got back to him and "won" the stage.

 

[Cycling111]

This is Pogacar trying to be a good teammate. Of course he couldn't tell Vingegaard was better than João. Vingegaard is not in the same level from what he showed in the Tour. I'm not saying he is far but he is not on the same level.

Absolutely true. Just as Van Aert hasn't been better than Pogacar all year, except in Motmatre, because this Tour has left them exhausted.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

He's slightly better than the 2023 Vuelta IMO, and he just happened to not be on a great day on the most important MTF of the race.

In 2023 he had a really poor stretch where he was very lucky the damage was minimal, but it included struggling on Xorret de Catí and getting deleted in the sprint after, getting easily gapped on Caravaca de la Cruz where he didn't wind up losing seconds because of the wonky finish line timings, and it included a really poor time trial where he barely put time into Kuss.

Then on the Tourmalet he attacks first and he takes like 30-40s with a tailwind while they're playing tactical games behind. Bejes was 100% down to tactical games behind as well, and on the Angliru they were only 30s slower than this year despite way suboptimal pacing, so I doubt very much even Vingegaard could have easily gone much faster.

Hmm maybe. Hard to evaluate that Vuelta with all the different teams tactics at hand and Vingegaard also said he started slightly sick back then.
Maybe the opposition is stronger this year but the difference between him and the likes of Pellizzari or Gall is really small at the moment so I think he's definitely worse than he'd hoped himself.

 

[Red Rick]

Hmm maybe. Hard to evaluate that Vuelta with all the different teams tactics at hand and Vingegaard also said he started slightly sick back then.
Maybe the opposition is stronger this year but the difference between him and the likes of Pellizzari or Gall is really small at the moment so I think he's definitely worse than he'd hoped himself.

I think the rest of the field is stronger than in 2023 as well.

 

[Rou]

“People are protesting for a reason” - Jonas Vingegaard defends Vuelta a Espana protests

Week two of the Vuelta a España 2025 has been dominated by off-bike events, and Sunday’s stage 15 was no exception. With 56 kilometers to go, the race was thrown into chaos when a protester ran out fr...

cyclinguptodate.com

My respect for Vingegaard is growing.
Well said, champ.

 

[Red Rick]

I honestly cannot think of a more nothing statement than "they're doing it for a reason". It's literally impossible to do it without a reason.