Just run it past me again, Belgian Cokehead Boonen replaces Aussie Davis

[mickkk]

What a disgrace, it was only "a bit of coke" sure, like Pantani only dabbled in it.

Its abhorrent that this has been allowed to happen and a sad day for cycling, let alone the TDF.

This sets a very dangerous precednet.

OK, so Boonen the dirty filthy rotten lying scheming cowardly disgraceful inept weak cad of a drug cheat only tested positive in may last year and june this year. Two positives in 2 years is a sign of what, occasional use? and thats OK, its in the best interest of the TDF?

 

[Epicycle]

There was only a bit of mention of Davis in the Operacion Puerto file.

 

[count jim moriarty]

ASO had no option but to let Boonen ride - they were not allowed to appeal against the decision of the French CAS.

 

[mickkk]

Cleared by the courts, no offence found to have been committed after a proper and full investigation.

 

[LugHugger]

Let me guess, you're an Aussie? If refer you to your last answer with respect of Boonen. NO case to answer, non-sporting infraction. I agree that Boonen's 'habits' do nothing to improve the image of the sport, especially since doping is doping in the eyes of the public. BUT from a sponsors perspective, Boonen over Davis is a no brainer.

 

[mickkk]

Of course I am mate, this lil ole site is Aussie based and/but the only decent chit chat TDF forum going, so happy to be biased.

One thing you get from us Aussies tho, is we dont sook if theres an arguement going, love robust debate!

So get stuck in and dont hold back!

Happy 4th, see http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,23519.0.html

 

[issoisso]

Actually, he's had 3 cocaine positives.
So it's even more mind boggling.

If this were an average rider he'd be told to f*** off by everyone. But it's Boonen

 

[Ferminal]

Don't see why recreational drugs should get in the way of a good contest (i.e. Boonen vs Cav)... common sense prevails.

 

[mickkk]

Truck if that was the case, id be in le peleton!

 

[Master50]

The tour is a drug dealer

There is champagne in most of the guest cars and many of the other cars. The drivers are probably sober but that is a guess.
Tom was out partying and the fact that he was blacking out speaks to a far more dangerous drug he was also on. Alcohol is one of the biggest killers and a very addictive drug to some. The fact that alcohol had a very short lived prohibition speaks to how ingrained a social drug can be. How can a drug with such a dark side be legal? Most adults serve it to their minor children or pass it off as a right of passage yet will go absolutely ballistic over a toke. My point is his little coke problem barely seems like a problem when compared to his alcohol problem but one of the drugs was illegal so we make a huge and in my mind hypocritical objection to his bad behavior. In terms of his profession he must race sober and drug free but if he can drink to blackout without a hint of a scandal then I don't much care about the other stuff he takes at a party.

 

[grimpeur]

There is champagne in most of the guest cars and many of the other cars. The drivers are probably sober but that is a guess.
Tom was out partying and the fact that he was blacking out speaks to a far more dangerous drug he was also on. Alcohol is one of the biggest killers and a very addictive drug to some. The fact that alcohol had a very short lived prohibition speaks to how ingrained a social drug can be. How can a drug with such a dark side be legal? Most adults serve it to their minor children or pass it off as a right of passage yet will go absolutely ballistic over a toke. My point is his little coke problem barely seems like a problem when compared to his alcohol problem but one of the drugs was illegal so we make a huge and in my mind hypocritical objection to his bad behavior. In terms of his profession he must race sober and drug free but if he can drink to blackout without a hint of a scandal then I don't much care about the other stuff he takes at a party.

In the '84 Tour I worked for Mavic and drank with the Tour cops during the race. I think those days are long gone though. As you say, I think the drivers are sober nowadays.

 

[Cobblestones]

Don't see why recreational drugs should get in the way of a good contest (i.e. Boonen vs Cav)... common sense prevails.

Ullrich was caught with XTC or speed (I don't recall which) during a recovery period from injury. He was banned for what, 1 year? Now whatever he took was on the list, so fair is fair. On the other hand coke is part of pot belge.

 

[blackcat]

Actually, he's had 3 cocaine positives.
So it's even more mind boggling.

If this were an average rider he'd be told to f*** off by everyone. But it's Boonen

nope, think it is run out of the UK now mate

 

[Ferminal]

Ullrich was caught with XTC or speed (I don't recall which) during a recovery period from injury. He was banned for what, 1 year? Now whatever he took was on the list, so fair is fair. On the other hand coke is part of pot belge.

The problem is his exclusion was never anything to do with cheating... Just the fact that the organisers don't like people who snort powder.

 

[Cobblestones]

The problem is his exclusion was never anything to do with cheating... Just the fact that the organisers don't like people who snort powder.

I was just saying, Ullrich popped a pill for purely recreational use. Unfortunately for him, the stuff was on the list and so he did the time. That said, I'm surprised coke isn't, especially since it's part of pot belge.

 

[forty four]

cyclist tend to be very hardwired individuals its no shock that many use i consider taking something for performance and taking something for other reasons to be very different. if one has not had issues themselves or seen it personally with family you simply dont understand the dynamic of addictions sometimes the personality that makes someone great also can destroy them. something to consider for those who pass such harsh judgement.

 

[runninboy]

Oh, now i understand this thread,
i thought it was "...Boone replaces OZZIE DAVIS"
my bad

 

[dsut4392]

Actually, he's had 3 cocaine positives.
So it's even more mind boggling.

If this were an average rider he'd be told to f*** off by everyone. But it's Boonen

I personally thought the fact that he was drunk as a skunk and speeding at 160 km/h at the time of his previous coke bust was even more incriminating. For a winner, he sure behaves like a loser.

Have to feel for the guy though, from media-darling-pretty-pin-up-boy dominant sprinter to balding petulant persona-non-grata also-ran has to be a pretty harsh fall in such a short period.

Despite all that, he is more likely to bring in wins and media coverage for the sponsors than Davis, and the tour was created as a marketing vehicle, not for good clean sporting fun to set a good example for the kiddies. And even so, that would mean leaving aside Alby's (totally unfairly) tarnished reputation along with all the other completely innocent Puerto riders.

 

[elapid]

I am an Aussie and am glad Boonen is riding the TdF. The cocaine busts are hypocritical. Out-of-competition positives are not announced in other countries, including France. So French riders could be snorting away happily on their own time and ASO would not know and these riders could participate in the TdF without bring the sport and the race into so-called disrepute. Boonen's results were released to the public and he gets vilified. According to the rules, this is not a PED if taken out-of-competition. The matter should stop there as far as cycling is concerned. There are many more cyclists and organizations out there that are bringing the sport into disrepute than a well-paid, successful cyclist that likes to party a bit in his rare spare time.

 

[beroepsrenner]

There is champagne in most of the guest cars and many of the other cars. The drivers are probably sober but that is a guess.
Tom was out partying and the fact that he was blacking out speaks to a far more dangerous drug he was also on. Alcohol is one of the biggest killers and a very addictive drug to some. The fact that alcohol had a very short lived prohibition speaks to how ingrained a social drug can be. How can a drug with such a dark side be legal? Most adults serve it to their minor children or pass it off as a right of passage yet will go absolutely ballistic over a toke. My point is his little coke problem barely seems like a problem when compared to his alcohol problem but one of the drugs was illegal so we make a huge and in my mind hypocritical objection to his bad behavior. In terms of his profession he must race sober and drug free but if he can drink to blackout without a hint of a scandal then I don't much care about the other stuff he takes at a party.

Here here!!
How good would Tomeke be if he got his head sorted and started focusing on his cycling career instead of just the spring classics?
Too much money and too much time on his hands I think. But seriously, cycling officialdom is grossly hypocritical. Alcohol and narcotic abuse is far worse for cycling's image than the hormone tweaking that everyone"s so worked up about.

 

[elapid]

Here here!!
How good would Tomeke be if he got his head sorted and started focusing on his cycling career instead of just the spring classics?
Too much money and too much time on his hands I think. But seriously, cycling officialdom is grossly hypocritical. Alcohol and narcotic abuse is far worse for cycling's image than the hormone tweaking that everyone"s so worked up about.

Cyclists make their career out of the spring classics: Rik Van Looy, Roger De Vlaeminck, Johan Museeuw, Francesco Moser, Rik Van Steenbergen, Jan Raas, Moreno Argentin, Fred De Bruyne, Hennie Kuiper, Michele Bartoli and Walter Godefroot. More recently, riders like Leif Hoste, Heinrich Haussler, Phillipe Gilbert, and Peter Van Petegem have made their careers from the classics, and will continue to do so. Even George Hincapie.

Some were good at more than just the classics, but these are a very rare breed: Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault, Fausto Coppi, Gino Bartali, Louison Bobet, Felice Gimondi and Sean Kelly.

For many people, including myself, the spring classics epitomize racing, not the GTs. Boonen is a great Classics rider. He is not a pure sprinter and it is unreasonable to expect him to beat Cavendish every time. But, if on form, he would be a good candidate for the green jersey because he is good, for a sprinter, in the mountains and he is consistent. Boonen can make a career, a very good one at that, out of the spring classics but he is also better than just a classics rider. Look at the number of non-classics wins he has every year.

 

[beroepsrenner]

Cyclists make their career out of the spring classics: Rik Van Looy, Roger De Vlaeminck, Johan Museeuw, Francesco Moser, Rik Van Steenbergen, Jan Raas, Moreno Argentin, Fred De Bruyne, Hennie Kuiper, Michele Bartoli and Walter Godefroot. More recently, riders like Leif Hoste, Heinrich Haussler, Phillipe Gilbert, and Peter Van Petegem have made their careers from the classics, and will continue to do so. Even George Hincapie.

Some were good at more than just the classics, but these are a very rare breed: Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault, Fausto Coppi, Gino Bartali, Louison Bobet, Felice Gimondi and Sean Kelly.

For many people, including myself, the spring classics epitomize racing, not the GTs. Boonen is a great Classics rider. He is not a pure sprinter and it is unreasonable to expect him to beat Cavendish every time. But, if on form, he would be a good candidate for the green jersey because he is good, for a sprinter, in the mountains and he is consistent. Boonen can make a career, a very good one at that, out of the spring classics but he is also better than just a classics rider. Look at the number of non-classics wins he has every year.

You may have missed my point regarding Boonen. I am well aware of spring classics specialists having raced alongside many of the names you have quoted. My point was that, for the last couple of years at least, as soon as the spring classics are over Tom seems to land himself in trouble with recreational drugs. For someone who earns his living from having his body and mind in perfect working order he is on a path self destruction, both healthwise and imagewise. Granted he is not a pure sprinter in the true sense of the term but as he is not a climber or a GC contender then he should at least be a contender for flat stage finishes in the current tour. Where is he? Quickstep kicked up quite a fuss to have him included in the tour when they should have had Allen Davis instead. The UCI is weak and hypocritical.

 

[davidg]

Quickstep kicked up quite a fuss to have him included in the tour when they should have had Allen Davis instead. The UCI is weak and hypocritical.

IMO QS were right to kick up a fuss. Boonen should have been allowed to ride the Tour since he did not fail a dope test. (It has been debated enough here, so I don't wish to prolong the argument)

The question now is whether QS should have put him in the squad gets weaker every day and I am sure Allan Davis is getting pretty pjssed off sitting at home watching.

Maybe TB will win in Paris and all will be forgiven... somehow I doubt it. I wouldn't be surprised to see him pull out in the mountains if he feels he has no chance of a Champs Elysee win.

 

[beroepsrenner]

IMO QS were right to kick up a fuss. Boonen should have been allowed to ride the Tour since he did not fail a dope test. (It has been debated enough here, so I don't wish to prolong the argument)

The question now is whether QS should have put him in the squad gets weaker every day and I am sure Allan Davis is getting pretty pjssed off sitting at home watching.

Maybe TB will win in Paris and all will be forgiven... somehow I doubt it. I wouldn't be surprised to see him pull out in the mountains if he feels he has no chance of a Champs Elysee win.

They may have been justified purely on legal technicalities but what kind of ambassador for the sponsor and the sport is Tom when he repeats his mistakes. If it was a rider of lesser stature he would already have been sacked from the team. Whether Tom rides into Paris remains to be seen but one thing is certain Davis would have put up a better fight with Canendish. His sprinting ability was proven with consistent top 10 stage finishes in the TDF before he was caught up in the Puerto fiasco simply because he was a member of the Liberty Seguros team.

 

[elapid]

I have to agree. I thought including Boonen over Davis was a good choice before the TdF started, but this was obviously wrong. Davis would have been contesting the sprints much better than Boonen has to date, especially with his record this year to date.

In regards to sprints v classics, I would imagine the training is different. The classics requiring sustained power and sprints requiring high top end speed for short bursts. Wasn't Boonen more of a lead train kind of sprinter? I forget, but if so, the team have also failed him because they haven't been in the mix with Columbia-HTC, Garmin, Cervelo Test Team or Milram trains.