Lance witch hunt in france

[TShame]

This 'event' in France seems like another pointless witch hunt against Lance Armstrong.

First: Not everyone in a lab is skilled and trained to inject a needle to obtain a blood sample. Was this person a skilled medical professional? Why wouldn't Lance want to see official paperwork?

Second: Why was this individual alone? There should be more than one individual for any testing precedure to insure there are credible eyewitnesses for any unforseen events.

Third: Is it fair to say that some dubious individuals were hoping to find some trace remnants of any medications issued during Armstrong's recent surgery? ( medical reasons for pain medication or any such treatment for his broken collarbone)

Fourth: Washing after a long ride is essential to maintain proper health for skin. There is no medical reason why twenty minutes would alter any test results. If Armstrong were to drive to a medical facility or lab to have his blood withdrawn, it would have probably taken that much time or even longer to obtain a proper sample of blood. This would only seem to matter if there was a positive result from his urine sample anyway.

Fifth: What other riders in France were tested in this manner in recent weeks? What procedure was used?

 

[golancego]

Good points

 

[mr. tibbs]

I hope you offered this much support for the Chicken two years ago, cuz it's a procedural question that got him, too.

 

[bikepure]

lord armstrong

whether or not lance doped, he fecked up. regardless of his 'missing 30 mins': it is another blow to the integrity of cycle sport.
Irish radio who don't even cover the tour de france result, their sport's headlines started "cycling once again fell foul to drugs today..........."

Lance will not be riding the tour de france now, but pulls so much power that he got the giro route altered yesterday. One rider changed a national tour's direction . The rider with this much power must be beyond question or he will damage everything on two wheels.

http://www.bikepure.org
join and help start a new era of cycling, and protect our future.

 

[ingsve]

I agree that this does seem a little witch hunt like but I'd just like to comment on one thing you said.

There is no medical reason why twenty minutes would alter any test results.

It's not about the time period itself but rather when can deliberately be done in that time. The argument is that he was left alone for 20 minutes and that would give someone the opportunity to deliberately alter their test results by taking masking agents or diluting the blood or urine etc etc etc. That's why there is a rule that the rider should not be left alone and that's the rule they claim has been broken.

It doesn't mean that he actually did anything in those 20 minutes in the same way that not being where you report that you were is proof that the chicken was doing anything wrong but it is againt the rules.

There is a waste diffrence between asking to shower and being granted it and saying that you are somewhere and then being somewhere completely diffrent. So I would be very surprised if anything does happen from this and it feels a little petty by the AFLD.

If Armstrong did get banned for this then that would only make him a martyr and in the long run make it harder for real anti-doping work to succeed.

 

[Dr. Wattini]

This 'event' in France seems like another pointless witch hunt against Lance Armstrong.

First: Not everyone in a lab is skilled and trained to inject a needle to obtain a blood sample. Was this person a skilled medical professional? Why wouldn't Lance want to see official paperwork?

Second: Why was this individual alone? There should be more than one individual for any testing precedure to insure there are credible eyewitnesses for any unforseen events.

Third: Is it fair to say that some dubious individuals were hoping to find some trace remnants of any medications issued during Armstrong's recent surgery? ( medical reasons for pain medication or any such treatment for his broken collarbone)

Fourth: Washing after a long ride is essential to maintain proper health for skin. There is no medical reason why twenty minutes would alter any test results. If Armstrong were to drive to a medical facility or lab to have his blood withdrawn, it would have probably taken that much time or even longer to obtain a proper sample of blood. This would only seem to matter if there was a positive result from his urine sample anyway.

Fifth: What other riders in France were tested in this manner in recent weeks? What procedure was used?

Come on dude...
Aparently there is a rule set by WADA (read cyclinews please) that says that the athlete must be observed by the tester from the minute the tester gets there. LA could have said to the tester, come on in my house, watch me showering, I may also shot a load, but just watch me, ok? the fact is that this did not happen. LA went on to take his shower.
Now, I do agree with you on your point numero dos. If I would be the French, I would have send a whole army of people. Just because I know he is no ordinary rider. That is why if you ever meet a CEO of a big company, they will never meet you alone.
As long as your behind does not have any cuts, you can tolerate wearing sweaty bike clothes for a little while. Specially if the testers are knocking on your door.
You just dont want to see your hero tainted....

 

[md2020]

whether or not lance doped, he fecked up. regardless of his 'missing 30 mins': it is another blow to the integrity of cycle sport.
Irish radio who don't even cover the tour de france result, their sport's headlines started "cycling once again fell foul to drugs today..........."

Not that I'm a Lance fanboy but the press cannot claim the high road if that's what their headline really was today.

 

[MTBRaider]

Well....

The donkey that showed to administer the test should have informed LA that his actions could be detrimental to the "results" of his test. if the JO was a competent test authority he would have informed LA of his rights, not simply allowed him to wander off hoping something like this would happen.

"Article 5.4.1, which states that the person being subjected to an anti-doping control must remain within the sight of the doping control officer from the time of notification until the sample is collected."

I'm sure LA would have been upset if some Frenchie was staring at him through the glass, but Johan was present.

As far as I'm concerned the AFLD is more at fault than Lance. All the donkey had to say was..."no LA I have to take the sample first."

This whole scenario doesn't make sense. It almost as though the French Doping authorities did this on purpose...hmmm?

Oh, in regards to the procedural failure on behalf of Rasmussen...his was a different fubar altogether, no need for details.

 

[pmcg76]

I am a bit confused about peoples attitude to the AFLD, last Tour de France, no one had a problem when they busted Ricco, Beltran, Schumacher & Duenas, (dont think anybody defended them) but they cannot be trusted to do anything connected with Lance. I am sorry but this is a strange attitude, if people believe this, then Lance might as well have stayed retired, if Lance truly believes the French are out to get him, he wouldnt have risked coming back.

The argument about taking a shower to replenish skin or something is pure ridiculous. Are guys who have just finished a race allowed to go to take a shower before taking a test. Absolutely not, so of course the same rules should apply to out of competition test.

I think most people know about the role of the chaperones after races, same as above so even though its a procedural issue rather than a drugs issues, Lance messed up and will have to accept whatever happens.

If we cannot trust the testers, we might as well stop all sport now because we cant trust them to catch anybody, either positive or negative.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Good point Pmg76.

Good post by Ingsv too, I agree with everything you wrote.

The latest is that LA is saying he asked to take a shower, and the tester agreed. AFLD is completely denying this and said the tester repeatedly warned him not to. It's going to be a "he said, she said" thing now.

At either rate, I'd be really surprised that Lance wouldn't know that making such a request to leave for a half-hour would end up surfacing like this and creating such a controversy. Especially after what all that's happened in the past. All the allegations, Rasmussen's situation, known ways dopers cheat tests going back to Willy Voet in the 1990s.

Bikepure - I've joined your organization. Would be nice if I could donate with Pay-Pal though.

 

[bianchigirl]

Sorry to pop the 'tester was a twit' bubble but it seems, unsurprisingly, that the AFLD sent one of their top men with 15 years experience at the highest level and that the test only finally took place when he threatened to call the Gendarmes.

I think Boss Hog have simply got too used to having everything their own way with the UCI testers.

 

[mikeNphilly]

I've never believed Lance was doping before, and still don't, until he fails a drug test. But, he broke a written rule here, no matter how small it seems, alot can be done in 20 min to alter outcomes of one's test. Whatever punishment he gets, he brought onto himself.

 

[golancego]

Why did the french testeridiot let Lance go to the shower?

WHY?

 

[ingsve]

The strange part is that Lance even had the urge to go take a shower. He's done hundreds of tests in his days so he knows perfectly well that he can't leave the testers sight.

Either Lance just wasn't thinking clearly or it might also be that that specific rule is just not enforced regularly. It might be that testers want to be polite and friendly so they let some things slide which are technically against the rules.

 

[bianchigirl]

The point is, the AFLD tester didn't simply allow Armstrong to take a shower - he warned him repeatedly not to violate the 'in sight at all times' rule.

 

[golancego]

You has wrong information b-girl..

The tester said ot would be okay to take a shower while Johan and the tester was checking the papers..

 

[bianchigirl]

No, I have information from the AFLD rather than from Boss Hog. Since I find it hard to believe that they'd send a kid with a backpack and unimpressive papers to catch the big fish, and since I find it really strange that the Hog would call McQuaid at the UCI to check the identity of a tester from the AFLD then I think I'll stick with the AFLD's version of events if it's all the same to you.

All for differing opinion and everyone believing what they want to believe but don't really care for the xenophobia - shows a distinct lack of class

 

[scott_cny]

Oh how I hate the French! Idiots. Do they really want to make him mad so he kicks their butts again (at their beloved sport)? When will they just accept that they suck and that Lance is the man. He has reinvented thier sport and dominated everyone before him in such a solid way it is absurd. Haven't past winners announced they used doping/drugs and I have not seen them take a step to prosecute them. Yet they want Lance to open his veins to a totally unknown stranger in the street? Give it a break. FRANCE- YOU LOSE CAUSE YOU SUCK. And now you look foolish except to the fools you surround yourselfs with. Hope Lance puts up with your crap and is in some position to cash in on his eighth. I know why you go after him now cause you are afraid!

 

[scott_cny]

Bianchi sucks.

 

[scott_cny]

I'm sure the Stupid French believe he did not take a shower- that he gave himself a blood transfusion, a hair transplant and filled his bladder with JOhans urine all in 20 minutes. If they are accusing him of all that to get the CLEAN RESULT THAT HE GOT, than they should say it. Or let the result stand. Shut-up FRANCE!

 

[scott_cny]

By definition, the tester is an idiot. He was French, right?

 

[bianchigirl]

I'm assuming these four posts are satire, right?

 

[scott_cny]

I'll show up at your house unannounced wanting to poke you with a needle and see if you try to buy some time or get more information- you feck up just breathing. Stop.

 

[scott_cny]

No. tired of hearing the french press machine whine like babies. Lance is ok with me. The witch hunt is absurd and wasn't the test clean?

 

[quadsRme]

We just don't know the complete story. I have heard what Lance said, and the AFLD tester. Johan was there, have we heard his story? I haven't yet. Let's not get our selves wet over who is right and who is wrong. The thread is a good one but let's not start calling people names and such because they read into a story differently. When the facts come out, and I'm sure they will, we can have our day with regards to who is right and wrong.
Although having said that it appears Lance may have broken the rules by not staying in 'sight' of the tester.
I am sure there are other forums to bash societies that you do not agree with.
Bianchigirl may have some good points here. Tiime will tell.