Lost art of group riding

[Damiano Machiavelli]

http://carolinacyclingnews.com/2011/09/01/lost-art-of-the-group-ride/

 

[ustabe]

Ah, the good old days!

I lead a ride for the shop where I work, and every week it feels more like torture. The "experts" don't care about helping the beginners. Every individual has his or her own agenda. And the beginners only learn they should ride alone until they get as strong as the cool kids. If they last that long.

Back in the day we had development clubs. We had training camps, we learned to ride together and support each other, and as the season progressed we split off into smaller training groups as our development and schedules dictated. Frankly, I'm burned out.

 

[blutto]

http://carolinacyclingnews.com/2011/09/01/lost-art-of-the-group-ride/

...ahhhh...the good old days...great article....thank you...

...though this does bring up one of them that squaring the circle thingees given that not that long ago some young wag ( who shall remain nameless...well, sorta...) dropped the following bit of wisdom on the forum...

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The proper thing to do is to drop them so they will be encouraged to train harder.
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...or has someone seen the light...

Cheers

blutto

 

[daveinzambia]

ustabe

wow wish rides like that still existed

i have recently returned to riding after 20 years off the bike. Due to where i grew up, while i belonged to clubs when i was younger and raced i did not really do group rides as i was pretty remote so just trained every day with a couple of buddies who lived close.

now i am back into it do not have any friends that ride so am stuck riding on my own. though that as i got back into it i would maybe consider going on group rides but have been completely put off. (this doe snot mean I am not willing to be told what to do in the group ride but whenever i see these articles they do not stress the learning side just the do not break the rules side)

1. Blogs that list strict rules about group rides, exactly how you should ride and how disapproving people will be if you do not get it ride. intimidating and rankly not much fun

2. descriptions of rides on things like bunch rider talking about pace lines, sprints, bringing your a game. not for me

3. seeing groups out of the road (or even worse in the park) once you have been swamped by a large group all shouting left in your ear with no consideration for where you are going, or shouted at by another group because they did not see you signal your left turn. once again not a welcoming sight

4. even more so the large number of club sites, blogs, forums like this that talk up things that are 'cool' about cycling and things that are not. the things that are top of the not list are generally the middle aged unfit guy on a cheap bike, god forbid wearing a replica jersey. really makes you want to find a group of these people to train with

maybe there are some rides out there for people like me. but i am yet to find them

think i will stick to riding on my own as that is the only time I get without my own kids telling me how uncool i am. do not need to spend it with other peoples kids telling me.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

.
...though this does bring up one of them that squaring the circle thingees given that not that long ago some young wag ( who shall remain nameless...well, sorta...) dropped the following bit of wisdom on the forum...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The proper thing to do is to drop them so they will be encouraged to train harder.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is guys like that who are the problem. ** edited by mod **

 

[ustabe]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The proper thing to do is to drop them so they will be encouraged to train harder.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I was younger, maybe. Anyway, these rides are promoted by the shop as no-drop, so that's against the rules. The hotshots all line up behind me, trying to hold things up for the beginners, until they start racing each other and take off up the road. They gap the beginners, who have been too intimidated to sit on my wheel, and I'm left soft-pedaling alone or turning around to round them up. And these are middle-aged recreational riders.

I do my conditioning rides alone, during the week, and I started leading these to socialize, recover, and introduce new riders to the sport. And I'm failing.

Lately the breakaways have been getting off route, not paying attention to instructions. I think I'll fix them by changing the route after they've left.

 

[42x16ss]

When I was younger, maybe. Anyway, these rides are promoted by the shop as no-drop, so that's against the rules. The hotshots all line up behind me, trying to hold things up for the beginners, until they start racing each other and take off up the road. They gap the beginners, who have been too intimidated to sit on my wheel, and I'm left soft-pedaling alone or turning around to round them up. And these are middle-aged recreational riders.

I do my conditioning rides alone, during the week, and I started leading these to socialize, recover, and introduce new riders to the sport. And I'm failing.

Lately the breakaways have been getting off route, not paying attention to instructions. I think I'll fix them by changing the route after they've left.

How big is the bunch? If it is big enough, try starting off in say, two waves. Get the guys who push to leave first in their own group and have the newer riders and those who just want to recover/socialise to take off second.

The faster guys can head off on the same ride, or even add an extension to the route and you can all meet up a few km's from the end. This way everyone is riding at the pace they want to be riding at. If anyone attacks the slower group, tell them to ride with the faster group next time - that's why it's there.

Hang in there!!! I'm sure you can make it work out.

 

[ustabe]

How big is the bunch? If it is big enough, try starting off in say, two waves.

Thanks, I'll try that Saturday and let you know what happens. I'll still have to deal with some in-betweeners, though.

 

[Tangled Tango]

How big is the bunch? If it is big enough, try starting off in say, two waves. Get the guys who push to leave first in their own group and have the newer riders and those who just want to recover/socialise to take off second.

The faster guys can head off on the same ride, or even add an extension to the route and you can all meet up a few km's from the end. This way everyone is riding at the pace they want to be riding at. If anyone attacks the slower group, tell them to ride with the faster group next time - that's why it's there.

Hang in there!!! I'm sure you can make it work out.

That is a good method. If there are enough riders of varying fitness, split themn up into an A & B group or C if necessary. As being the faster and so on. It´s easy and works well. Let the competitive As fight amongst themselves without hurting the group.

 

[Boeing]

I just posted this in an old thread but it deserves it's own.

a few word changes and this could describe posting in the CN forum as well!

 

[Zoncolan]

What on Earth is Purito doing with Moreno up front?!

 

[ElChingon]

The group ride is what you make of it, not what it is. No two by two pace line well then get it started, complaining it doesn't exist doesn't bring it to light.

Every group ride has its pack of riders commenting, "it used to be a good ride ... bla bla", yet the common denominator is those small packs of riders not doing something about it.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

http://carolinacyclingnews.com/2011/09/01/lost-art-of-the-group-ride/

that's a great read. thanks!

 

[Anonymous]

In the city i live, we usually do group ride.Infact, we have one on sunday.

 

[ustabe]

I tried 42x16's advice. Sent the tigers on ahead at the start and had a delightful somewhat pokey time with the beginners. Even picked up a straggler who got dropped. Maybe we'll try the paceline next week. Thanks, man.

 

[42x16ss]

Great to hear that it worked out!

Hopefully it keeps working and makes it a more enjoyable bunch for everyone. If it does you may find your bunch growing just through word of mouth, because everyone like riding with a good bunch.

 

[hughmoore]

Merged from new thread:

Howdy all, we have regular group rides in our area and numbers are building, however with different levels of riders.

We have a lot of surging going on, how do you guys control speeds in your group rides.

Some get on the front and accelerate, we have lots of rolling hills as well so speed tends to keep rising. A lot of people seem incapable of maintaining a constant max speed.

Looking at splitting the Group to get rid of the breakaway boys, but my question is controlling the rest.

We tried the rolling pace line last night, but with limited success.

Im thinking of keeping the route secret, so if they take off, we will go a different direction.

Any thoughts shall be appreciated.

Regards


Hugh
South OZ.

 

[Boeing]

Merged from new thread:

Howdy all, we have regular group rides in our area and numbers are building, however with different levels of riders.

We have a lot of surging going on, how do you guys control speeds in your group rides.

Some get on the front and accelerate, we have lots of rolling hills as well so speed tends to keep rising. A lot of people seem incapable of maintaining a constant max speed.

Looking at splitting the Group to get rid of the breakaway boys, but my question is controlling the rest.

We tried the rolling pace line last night, but with limited success.

Im thinking of keeping the route secret, so if they take off, we will go a different direction.

Any thoughts shall be appreciated.

Regards


Hugh
South OZ.

this really is a good question. here in so cal it can get a bit clicky with certain groups in the know and a different agenda which seems to be that of dropping people. a lot of intense surging spring and summer as a way to let people know who is at "the level" and who is not. when I was younger we would send a guy back to block cling-ons we felt were unsafe slowly nudging them wide so the miss the acceleration. that was long ago like when simply fit had red kits... this still happens imho. it can get real clicky in SD area on PCH south of pendelton as some of you know who you are

but the current surges mid week in the OC are too much for me at times as I take too long to warm up. although things have slowed down now in off season.

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

My coach is really old school and runs a very large cycling club with many junior cyclists and adults, as well. His rides are run very organized. We always ride in a single or double-file pace line and stay together if it is a No Drop ride. He has skills practices for the juniors where we learn to ride on a group ride and handle our bikes. During the rides, he'll do what he can to make sure that the adults are also doing the right thing in pace line. Club members (at least most of them) know what the pace is for that day and respect it, even if they could go faster; they know that there are other days to drop the hammer. The only thing is that this is how he makes his living, and he does cahrge a membership fee.

 

[Archibald]

Merged from new thread:

Howdy all, we have regular group rides in our area and numbers are building, however with different levels of riders.

We have a lot of surging going on, how do you guys control speeds in your group rides.

Some get on the front and accelerate, we have lots of rolling hills as well so speed tends to keep rising. A lot of people seem incapable of maintaining a constant max speed.

Looking at splitting the Group to get rid of the breakaway boys, but my question is controlling the rest.

We tried the rolling pace line last night, but with limited success.

Im thinking of keeping the route secret, so if they take off, we will go a different direction.

Any thoughts shall be appreciated.

Regards


Hugh
South OZ.

dunno if this is any help, but I rode with the london dynamo lot a couple of times. they get quite a large group at their meeting point each saturday morning.
The do the paceline in a number of groups which effectively starts with the quickest/strongest riders with each group progressively reducing in fitness/speed.
Admittedly their 'course' is several laps of the 12km loop of richmond park, but their mini bunches stay as neat two-a-breast pacelines.
Their 'leaders' were more than welcoming to chat and/or advise.

and damn! if I knew you were in south aus, i'd have tee'd up to join you guys when I was there for a few weeks about 2 months ago...

 

[ElChingon]

Merged from new thread:

Howdy all, we have regular group rides in our area and numbers are building, however with different levels of riders.

We have a lot of surging going on, how do you guys control speeds in your group rides.

Some get on the front and accelerate, we have lots of rolling hills as well so speed tends to keep rising. A lot of people seem incapable of maintaining a constant max speed.

Looking at splitting the Group to get rid of the breakaway boys, but my question is controlling the rest.

We tried the rolling pace line last night, but with limited success.

Im thinking of keeping the route secret, so if they take off, we will go a different direction.

Any thoughts shall be appreciated.

Regards


Hugh
South OZ.

First off have you considered talking to the group to discuss the matter? Most likely at the start or end point or coffee stop. Having the general consensus of the group first would probably put it all in place or have the sub groups form from the discussion.

Most rides have many different disciplines in on the ride. Some cyclo-cross riders might be doing your ride for more some speed or pack riding between workouts, meaning they're going very good now as opposed to sucking wheel in the summer (or opposite of that in OZ). Then there's the Tri riders who own a road bike to do the road rides and might be peeking for some Tri when the rest of the roadies are taking it easy. Then there's the general riders out to just have a good time/workout no matter what time of year. Corralling these riders is up to someone if you want the ride to be all together, but riding group rides I know that won't happen, those different agenda's mean different goals for that one ride.

If anything you'll manage to break up the group into similar interests which might make it more fun for you or reach your goal. If you don't want to do the sheep herding find the group patron and see what can be done. Changing old rides to do something different takes a lot of energy.