Mark Cavendish Vs Greipel: What is, and what could've been

[MacBAir]

I remember "hating" on Greipel during the 08-10 years, thinking that he was just trying to block a better rider, in Cavendish.

These days, after watching many races and growing up, and watching Greipel burying himself for teammates, tackling the cobbles, falling and getting back up, being consistent... I just feel sad with myself.

What if Greipel was the one chosen by HTC? No one was going to beat him with that train (that fixed his shortcomings) during the whole season. He could've had an insane palmares, with at least as many tour/giro victories as Cav but probably more, due to his consistent nature and warrior/no drama personality. He would also have smoked a lot of minor classics.

Greipel is awesome. I think some circumstances robbed him. He's still extremely successful. Looking at procycling stats, one can see how close they get, all things considered. They are basically tied, using their score system.

What do you think their respective palmares would look like today If Greipel was the one going to A races since 2008? Do you agree that Greipel's biggest shortcomings are all related with positioning, and an overpowering train would deal with that just fine? Would he be more confident?

Would he have the same, more or less tour victories than Cav?

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Re: Mark Cavendish Vs Greipel: What is, and what could've be

It is only just early november. I wonder what threads there will be in the middle of december?! :Neutral:

 

[Vroome.exe]

Cav is just superior rider. No competition here.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Cav is just superior rider. No competition here.

Yeah he has an amazing racing brain.

 

[kingjr]

Greipel was a bit unfortunate, had his breakthrough come 1 year sooner, his palmares would be much more impressive, however Cavendish is of course better overall.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Greipel is an astonishing teammate in the Classics but constantly fails to contest MSR.

Weird.

 

[MacBAir]

Re:

Greipel is an astonishing teammate in the Classics but constantly fails to contest MSR.

Weird.

He just seems too heavy for that race. I don't remember him contesting the sprint at all.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Greipel is an astonishing teammate in the Classics but constantly fails to contest MSR.

Weird.

He just seems too heavy for that race. I don't remember him contesting the sprint at all.

Same dimensions as Cancellara.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

I like Greipel more (guess why?)
But Cav is just a better rider

 

[hammerthaim]

Re: Re:

Greipel is an astonishing teammate in the Classics but constantly fails to contest MSR.

Weird.

He just seems too heavy for that race. I don't remember him contesting the sprint at all.

Same dimensions as Cancellara.

His power over 5-10 minutes is just not good enough for the Cipressa or the Poggio.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Mark Cavendish Vs Greipel: What is, and what could've be

Greipels palmares certainly could have been better but I'm pretty sure that Cav is the faster sprinter. The only year in which greipel was the fastest sprinter was last year; a season in which both Kittel and Cav had a horrible shape and Sagan was probably as fast as him but often was unlucky.

 

[Nick C.]

Cav used to complain that Greipel would "lose the wheel". I think in some respects, and in his own interviews he has confirmed this or at least a bit more of a self-preservationist streak than some of his foes.

Everywhere outside of a mass bunch sprint it is no contest.

 

[screaming fist]

If you're asking if or how much being on a team with Cavendish has hindered Greipel's development, you also have to take Ciolek into consideration. He was part of the T-Mobile/Columbia setup in 2007 and 2008, too. During those two years it was Ciolek who was said to be the next German sprinter, Zabel's successor etc. So Greipel was just third in the pecking order. Of course there shouldn't be much to argue about who is better sprinter when comparing Greipel and Ciolek.

Besides that, one of my pet theories is that trying to develop Ciolek into a pure sprinter tanked his development. His victory in Winterberg during the 2008 Deutschland Tour should have changed the direction of Ciolek's career, sadly it was mostly downhill from thereon.

 

[Durden93]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that HTC chose Cav because he had better stats than Greipel. Ie better watts, lower CDA (more aero) etc. I mean honestly if they had all the info they wanted on those two riders don't you think they'd know better than even the most devoted fan?

 

[kingjr]

They chose him because he was clearly the faster sprinter back in 2007. Didn't even need any data for that I think. And after his success at the Giro 2008, Greipel was only ever going to play second fiddle to Cav at HTC.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Greipel is an astonishing teammate in the Classics but constantly fails to contest MSR.

Weird.

He just seems too heavy for that race. I don't remember him contesting the sprint at all.

Same dimensions as Cancellara.

Of course physical dimensions aren't the sole determining factor in what makes a rider capable of competing in a particular event. I'm not sure what you're saying.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Greipel is an astonishing teammate in the Classics but constantly fails to contest MSR.

Weird.

He just seems too heavy for that race. I don't remember him contesting the sprint at all.

Same dimensions as Cancellara.

Of course physical dimensions aren't the sole determining factor in what makes a rider capable of competing in a particular event. I'm not sure what you're saying.

I was having fun, relax.