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- Dec 7, 2010
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- Jul 21, 2012
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thehog said:
I think the new mod policy is to let sockpuppets and bots post as much as they won't as long as they don't break any obvious rules.
Makes sense I guess since they want as many clicks as possible, but then it doesn't make sense to ban the posters who contribute good things to the forum.
I fear that the forum might become unreadable in the future if this continues. We already lost many good posters like BroDeal.
thehog said:
Thats right, it normally comes from you.
Strange, your two styles are quite similar. I wouldn't have a problem with the two of you being the same poster, just wish you would be honest about it.
- Jul 25, 2012
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thehog said:
I don't see point scoring. I see someone constantly badgering another user, and he's not the only one, rather than just using the proper channels. It derails every thread it happens in, including this one. He then states it's obvious because of this one phrase no-one else would ever use, except... well... he did. If you're going to say something like that you should probably make sure you haven't used it yourself.
What you should actually do, if you are so concerned banned members are coming back, is report their posts, pm moderators and then leave it up to them. If nothing happens and you're still sure, keep reporting them and keep pm'ing the mods.
If still nothing happens either rinse and repeat or deal with it. Constant accusations of sockpuppetry are only going to cause arguments, derail threads and ****-off anyone and everyone involved, including the people who just want to get through a thread without the usual 300+ pages of constant bickering from the usual suspects.
the sceptic said:
There is something deeply hypocritical about someone who is so fond of saying "Ball, not man" throwing out scattershot accusations of sockpuppetry to people just because (IMO) you disagree with them.
Feel free to supply your evidence about how I or samhocking are sockpuppets (as you claimed just YESTERDAY). You have zero. zilch. nada.
- Aug 16, 2011
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Sceptic, IMO your too quick to call sockpuppet on an account based on very little evidence.
For determining sockpuppets I think it's more the overall views/opinions and trends in posting that should be looked at rather then if they for example shared like-mind on one small point or topic or used the same phrases.
A search for terms nada and zilch by the way turns up a lot of results, with posters such as Dear Wiggo, 86TDFWinner, sittingbison, Foxxy and more having used the phrase. And none of them are sockpuppets or getting accused of being one. It's really not an uncommon phrase.
+1 to this. Especially the ending paragraph.
For determining sockpuppets I think it's more the overall views/opinions and trends in posting that should be looked at rather then if they for example shared like-mind on one small point or topic or used the same phrases.
A search for terms nada and zilch by the way turns up a lot of results, with posters such as Dear Wiggo, 86TDFWinner, sittingbison, Foxxy and more having used the phrase. And none of them are sockpuppets or getting accused of being one. It's really not an uncommon phrase.
+1 to this. Especially the ending paragraph.
King Boonen said:
- Jul 21, 2012
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Afrank said:
well, I have taken all that into consideration of course.
their styles are almost identical to me, except less personal attacks and insults. They both post almost exclusively in sky/brit related threads. Both never having any opinions themselves but preferring nitpicking the opinions of people who think sky are doping. Both lobbying to get the hog banned etc.
It's obvious to me, but that's just my opinion. I don't think a genuinely new poster would behave like this.
thehog
BANNED
- Jul 27, 2009
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Afrank said:
The issue doesn’t pertain to that one phrase.
Red Flanders & others have called out not only the stark similarity in posting style but how the same poster who only just joined would make reference to discussions held by Martin.
A mod doesn’t necessarily follow each conversation to pick up on the subtle nature of the posts. It is what it is and will leave in the hands of the mods.
i share the view that it's pretty easy to identify suckpoppets.
i too often wonder why action is taken rather late or not at all.
on the topic of identifyng sockpuppets: i just read a post of a guy who has only 11 or 12 posts to his name saying "Berzin went (us)postal" in reference to Berzin's just having banned Murphy, Netserk and Granville.
Can anybody explain to me how somebody with only 11 posts to his name is in the position to post something as cheeky as that?
disclaimer: i was permabanned for sockpuppeteering once, and to my defense i must stress (and some will laugh in disbelief) that i genuinely wasn't aware that it was disallowed at the time (I wasn't aware of sockpuppetry at all, I just thought i was cleverly circumventing my ban). At the time i thought it was no big deal. After all, I had seen some respected posters coming back under different names. Only later I understood that these guys had done so in consultation with mods.
i too often wonder why action is taken rather late or not at all.
on the topic of identifyng sockpuppets: i just read a post of a guy who has only 11 or 12 posts to his name saying "Berzin went (us)postal" in reference to Berzin's just having banned Murphy, Netserk and Granville.
Can anybody explain to me how somebody with only 11 posts to his name is in the position to post something as cheeky as that?
disclaimer: i was permabanned for sockpuppeteering once, and to my defense i must stress (and some will laugh in disbelief) that i genuinely wasn't aware that it was disallowed at the time (I wasn't aware of sockpuppetry at all, I just thought i was cleverly circumventing my ban). At the time i thought it was no big deal. After all, I had seen some respected posters coming back under different names. Only later I understood that these guys had done so in consultation with mods.
Funny to hear some people talk about how some posters left becasue of SKY bots which is patently false.
I have been reading back some old threads and there were some great posters on here but most no longer or rarely post.
Libertine has really dropped off and I think most agree was one of the best posters here, likewise hrotha, hardly see them here anymore.
I see another great poster recently returned but only posting in RR section. There are countless others and I would gurantee none left because of SKY bots as claimed. Might have been because of others though. A quick look at the dominant voices in the Clinic would tell a clearer picture.
As for click-bait, I once queried of a mod how a frequently banned poster was allowed to return time after time, like was their a tipping point as there seemed to be for others. Was more or less told, 'they were tolerated' around here. Poster still posting here today.
As for sniper claiming he didn't know about sockpuppetry, that is less believable than the things tossed out by riders to cover their doping.
I have been reading back some old threads and there were some great posters on here but most no longer or rarely post.
Libertine has really dropped off and I think most agree was one of the best posters here, likewise hrotha, hardly see them here anymore.
I see another great poster recently returned but only posting in RR section. There are countless others and I would gurantee none left because of SKY bots as claimed. Might have been because of others though. A quick look at the dominant voices in the Clinic would tell a clearer picture.
As for click-bait, I once queried of a mod how a frequently banned poster was allowed to return time after time, like was their a tipping point as there seemed to be for others. Was more or less told, 'they were tolerated' around here. Poster still posting here today.
As for sniper claiming he didn't know about sockpuppetry, that is less believable than the things tossed out by riders to cover their doping.
thehog
BANNED
- Jul 27, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
The forum has run extremely well of late. I haven't seen a ban until yesterday for some period of time.
The only real issues was a "hack" and posters "dropping in" to stir up trouble and leaving.
The problem really comes when posters believe that their point of view is the only one and those disagreeing are trolling. That always ends up as trouble.
MartinVickers and I butted heads a lot but both conceded to each other that whilst we enjoyed the occasional arm wrestle it wasn't productive to the forum and put down our weapons.
I too have had discussions with mods who simply say "we can't control them nor tell them what to do".
And if you taken the time to look Libertine and Hrotha have both posted recently.
One might note that we're in the off-season. Forum numbers dwindle during these months every year and there's always one poster who comes on and states "its not the same as it used to be".
Finally; the forum was at its height during the Armstrong comeback and subsequent fall. Of course it would be, it was big news. So to Sky's break out 2012 and Froome going crazy in 2013. Those moments bring out the posters. Content will always be king.
- Sep 25, 2009
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the Spud said:
... ... wait. isn't it what berzin - by far not my type of poster or a mod - asked to abstain from ?
i reckon, being ignored and insulted (plus being an oversensitive human with a privilege of having the last word - wrongly or rightly), he acted/reacted like many would have in his position.
i guess, some (i can't speak to the true situation as i only read what's not been deleted, nor have i seen the pms) have ignored the fact of berzin being a mod rather than a person they dislike ?
- May 15, 2011
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thehog said:
No the reason there have been few bans recently is becasue the clinic has become so homogenized that there is only point of view accepted so most rational people can't be bothered as they just get drowned out. The exact reason why so many leave or post less. Simples.
As for your claims of talking with mods, must be Tuesday again
pmcg76 said:
This is exactly how I feel and what I observe. Disagree with the long termers and you are branded either a troll, a sockpuppet, or a newbie idiot. A new poster it seems cant have a contrasting opinion.
This seems especially so if you are a Brit or a Sky fan. There seem to be plenty of Contador / Nibali / other fans on here - do they get the vitriol that the Sky fans get? It seems not. And its one of the reasons I dropped off over December. It seems with good reason - since I have come back I have repeatedly been accused of sockpuppeting and hacking, despite a mod telling people not to.
I hear the term 'Clinic 12' - well soon, it seems, that will be the totality of the membership.
thehog
BANNED
- Jul 27, 2009
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pmcg76 said:No the reason there have been few bans recently is becasue the clinic has become so homogenized that there is only point of view accepted so most rational people can't be bothered as they just get drowned out. The exact reason why so many leave or post less. Simples.
As for your claims of talking with mods, must be Tuesday again
I talk to the mods often. Regularly in fact. I'm just about the only one here who states whatever they say goes. I never complain with their approach. Its their forum to run, even if its unfair you have to lump it.
The issue is not homogenization, its because its a doping forum. However, in cycling doping is not black and white like some would like it. It just can't be. And there's a long history of doping in the sport so even without positive tests and the like there can be suspicions over performances.
The Clinic is here to discuss those points in detail. What happens is people get upset when their favorite cyclist/country/team when a suggestion is made that they are doping. Then you have those who want to block discussion because they don't like it. Life.
Doping is odd. Because you can get a guy like Wiggins who has never had a sniff of being anything but clean. Never had a positive test and has a good record on the track. But you know what? He decides to come 4th at the Tour whereby there were doped riders in the race just ahead and behind him. Then he wins the Tour with a team that powered its way over mountain passes by a self admitted 450w etc. And due to that you have to discuss the doping angle in a doping forum. There are many who get upset that there's discussion. Froome is the same. His transformation is on the extreme end of dramatic; of course you have to discuss the doping side of his rise in a doping forum. It would be silly not to. But pretending that it shouldn't be discussed because there is "no evidence" is silly.
People come and go through forums is natural. If people are big fans of Sky I can see why they wouldn't want to spend their time on a forum dedicated to doping. They'd rather go where its not discussed. Same in the Armstrong era, you had forums which were very pro Armstrong that allowed zero doping talk so it was a safe heaven for Lance fans. Others would allow it and some very good discussions broke out.
Generally what falls out is "fans" of riders and teams blame the poster an not the actual fact that their "might" be doping.
Think about it... and there's always the PRR thread if you want to avoid the doping talk.
- Jun 14, 2010
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pmcg76 said:No the reason there have been few bans recently is becasue the clinic has become so homogenized that there is only point of view accepted so most rational people can't be bothered as they just get drowned out. The exact reason why so many leave or post less. Simples.
As for your claims of talking with mods, must be Tuesday again
What rational people are these? The proportion at any given time of people who believe in the froome.miracle has been exceptionally small. For all these imagined sky believers who left (all the main ones are still here and at least half were sockpuppet accounts of Joachim who have been banned) there were tens upon tens of people who came in to post they don't believe the bs for one minute.
The thread activity is low now because it's the off-season same every year. When froome crashed the forum it wasn't because of all these "rational" fans coming on here to say he must be clean because he hasn't failed a test.
sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one. The forum doesn't feature more doubters than believers because all the believers left in protest. It always featured more doubters because that is the conclusion any remotely rational (there's your word) person reaches. same as how when Walsh was on the radio in Ireland everyone who phoned in did so to say how ridiculous froome was. And when the danish paper asked readers who believed in froome 80% said they didn't.
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