More glad tiding from Spain

[iainf72]

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-spain-doping&prov=ap&type=lgns

It really is the wild west down there.

 

[ChrisE]

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-spain-doping&prov=ap&type=lgns

It really is the wild west down there.

One of the homes raided was owned by a "racewalker".

You ever see a race with a group of those jackcracks? I'm all for doing whatever needs to be done to get rid of that blight on athletics.

 

[Hugh Januss]

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-spain-doping&prov=ap&type=lgns

It really is the wild west down there.

Yeah, good thing there is nothing like that going on anywhere else.

 

[BikeCentric]

Racewalkers are on EPO?!

 

[Anonymous]

Racewalkers are on EPO?!

Yes.

Half the Russian walking team couldn't go to Beijing Olympics because of doping.

--------
As for bagging the walking as a sport (someone mentioned earlier) I gaurantee you the race walkers can run faster and longer than most people here. They are ridiculously fit, the just look stoopid.

I think it is a blight on athletics, because for me, a race is about getting from A to B the quickest. it's not about collecting points, doing something with a different technique. Hurdles, Steeplechase, Race walking, they are all ways of slowing down running.

Add to that the ridiculous "strokes' in the sport of swimming. People praise Phelpsy, but lets face it, no other athlete can enter 8 events.

If athletics had a 100, 200 and 400 metre sprint, but backwards, add another 3 medals to Bolts tally. If athletics had the 100, 200 and 400 running sideways, add another 3 to Bolts tally. Then, if they had a medley, back and forth 300 metre sprint (sideways forth, backwards back, forwards last) then add another medal to Bolt's tally.

Not to mention all those races in a 'team relay' format, add another 4 medals to Bolt's tally.

 

[Race Radio]

Mat White would not be happy with you guys dissing the race walkers, his wife is "World Class" ......if you can be world class in something that basically is just shaking your A$$ for 20km

 

[poupou]

Maybe something could come back and reopen the Puerto Affair.

As it was rumoured, when Fuentes closed his office, others opened to offered equivalent services.
Of course, for Viru who had fleed with the customer listing of his boss, it didn't need to pay advertising on media.

 

[workingclasshero]

I think it is a blight on athletics, because for me, a race is about getting from A to B the quickest. it's not about collecting points, doing something with a different technique. Hurdles, Steeplechase, Race walking, they are all ways of slowing down running.

Add to that the ridiculous "strokes' in the sport of swimming. People praise Phelpsy, but lets face it, no other athlete can enter 8 events.

If athletics had a 100, 200 and 400 metre sprint, but backwards, add another 3 medals to Bolts tally. If athletics had the 100, 200 and 400 running sideways, add another 3 to Bolts tally. Then, if they had a medley, back and forth 300 metre sprint (sideways forth, backwards back, forwards last) then add another medal to Bolt's tally.

Not to mention all those races in a 'team relay' format, add another 4 medals to Bolt's tally.

so spot on it's beyond belief.

same goes for classical style in skiing, just let people get on with it and finish that 50k as fast as possible!!

my pet hate is butterfly in swimming. let's look at swimming in its purest form, you're on the titanic and it's going dooooooooooooooown

ok so you crawl, you want to go as fast as possible, to avoid getting dragged to the bottom of the ocean with the ship.

after a while, you tire. you turn around and backcrawl for a bit. then, when you're safe you do a bit of breast stroke as it's the least tiring. (plus it improves your pecs for when you meet that lonely bird on the island you end up on)

but you would neeeeeeeeever use butterfly where did that technique even come from

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Maybe something could come back and reopen the Puerto Affair.

As it was rumoured, when Fuentes closed his office, others opened to offered equivalent services.
Of course, for Viru who had fleed with the customer listing of his boss, it didn't need to pay advertising on media.

Actually this could be Puerto "part deaux"!

When Puerto opened it had Sainz and the two doctors - this investigation has "several Doctors and two pharmacists" - and of course all these are now subject to new laws in Spain arising from the original investigation.

I guess it will all depend how much these guys have learned from Puerto to avoid detection.

Of course pro Cycling need not worry - as we have the Bio Passport to protect us, obviously there will be no cyclists caught up in this.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes.

Half the Russian walking team couldn't go to Beijing Olympics because of doping.

--------
As for bagging the walking as a sport (someone mentioned earlier) I gaurantee you the race walkers can run faster and longer than most people here. They are ridiculously fit, the just look stoopid.

I think it is a blight on athletics, because for me, a race is about getting from A to B the quickest. it's not about collecting points, doing something with a different technique. Hurdles, Steeplechase, Race walking, they are all ways of slowing down running.

Add to that the ridiculous "strokes' in the sport of swimming. People praise Phelpsy, but lets face it, no other athlete can enter 8 events.

If athletics had a 100, 200 and 400 metre sprint, but backwards, add another 3 medals to Bolts tally. If athletics had the 100, 200 and 400 running sideways, add another 3 to Bolts tally. Then, if they had a medley, back and forth 300 metre sprint (sideways forth, backwards back, forwards last) then add another medal to Bolt's tally.

Not to mention all those races in a 'team relay' format, add another 4 medals to Bolt's tally.

Friggin funniest post I've read on this forum. Coined a new phrase, "Bolt's Tally." I'm using it but I'll give you full credit.

 

[egtalbot]

One of the homes raided was owned by a "racewalker".

You ever see a race with a group of those jackcracks? I'm all for doing whatever needs to be done to get rid of that blight on athletics.

Racewalking is riddled with doping, like all endurance sports. It's probably better than cycling because it's primarily governments that run the doping and there are fewer of those doing it than there are pro cycling teams. And of course far less money at stake. The 100th best road cyclist in the world makes a reasonable salary and might get to ride the Tour while the 100th best racewalker is lucky to get into top level races and makes no money at the sport.

As a former U.S. national racewalking team member (one of the slower ones), I do find it amusing to hear people bad-mouthing it because it looks stupid. It says a lot more about the insecurity of the commenter than about the sport.

 

[progressor]

Yes.

Half the Russian walking team couldn't go to Beijing Olympics because of doping.

--------
As for bagging the walking as a sport (someone mentioned earlier) I gaurantee you the race walkers can run faster and longer than most people here. They are ridiculously fit, the just look stoopid.

I think it is a blight on athletics, because for me, a race is about getting from A to B the quickest. it's not about collecting points, doing something with a different technique. Hurdles, Steeplechase, Race walking, they are all ways of slowing down running.

Add to that the ridiculous "strokes' in the sport of swimming. People praise Phelpsy, but lets face it, no other athlete can enter 8 events.

If athletics had a 100, 200 and 400 metre sprint, but backwards, add another 3 medals to Bolts tally. If athletics had the 100, 200 and 400 running sideways, add another 3 to Bolts tally. Then, if they had a medley, back and forth 300 metre sprint (sideways forth, backwards back, forwards last) then add another medal to Bolt's tally.

Not to mention all those races in a 'team relay' format, add another 4 medals to Bolt's tally.

Absolutely agree, except the hurdles. They're a different race not a change of style.

 

[Anonymous]

... I do find it amusing to hear people bad-mouthing it because it looks stupid. It says a lot more about the insecurity of the commenter than about the sport.

I assume you are talking about my comment, but I can assure you there is no insecurity here. Anyone who wears lycra (i'm referring to ME) on a regular basis is hardly insecure about looking stupid now are they? I'm very comfortable looking stupid, there's nothing wrong with that.

I was not bad-mouthing racewalking, I actually praised them for being extremely fit, and i've looked at their 20k times and it's about what I used to run, so full credit to them for their fitness.

The only down side of "technique" sports is it's not a race of getting from A to B the quickest. It's a test of getting from A to B using a sub-optimal form of movement, which I find rather silly and not a true test of "athletic" ability. Rather, it's a combination of technique and athletics which hardly compares to the traditional foot races, IMO.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Its a small world!

According to Jesus Manzano, Walter Viru was the person called to tip off the riders about upcoming blood tests -
Lance's own Doctor at Dr. Luis Del Moralwas also tipped off by the same source.

(This is a translation of Jesus Manzanos interview- original here)

"I want to give you an example, something I've never spoken about except to the police up until now. It concerns one of the four Spanish Laboratories credited by the UCI.
This laboratory who is in charge of sending the "UCI" vampires (doctors) to take the samples during the Vuelta and other races is the same lab that's in charge of the doctor visits to the cyclists, they follow the cyclists and give them the stamp of approval on their licenses.
The owner of this clinic, a renowned hemotologist, called Walter Viru, who is one of the doctors for Kelme to alert them the day before the UCI vampires were coming to take the samples from the cyclist. And he did the same thing with Del Moral, the doctor for the U.S. Postal team and then Discovery, a good friend of his. "

 

[Frosty]

The only down side of "technique" sports is it's not a race of getting from A to B the quickest. It's a test of getting from A to B using a sub-optimal form of movement, which I find rather silly and not a true test of "athletic" ability. Rather, it's a combination of technique and athletics which hardly compares to the traditional foot races, IMO.

I suppose a cycling equivalent could be a race where you had to pedal at 120rpm for the whole time.

 

[hfer07]

Sh!t!!! looks like the Spaniards are the top of the doping food chain!!! we'll hear in the coming weeks that a dark list was found tagged to many important athletes but nobody will name them publicly... even Penelope Cruz is on that list....

 

[Frank Tuesday]

I suppose a cycling equivalent could be a race where you had to pedal at 120rpm for the whole time.

I imagine it to be more like racing on one of these:

Slower than a bike and you look like a dork.

 

[dr_wok]

This Viru - Del Moral - Postal/Discovery - Armstrong link from the MAnzano interview is the most interesting things I have read here in a long time.

 

[Willow22]

just a sidenote of little to no relevance to this topice but concerning the swimming butterfly comment. I remember hearing from some pretty reputable sources not that long ago that some swimmers will actually doing 'fly in the freestyle event (it's allowed, hence the term freestyle) in coming years because the way athletes strength and techniques are evolving, soon it will actually be faster than the current australian crawl technique over 50 and 100m.

 

[thehog]

This Viru - Del Moral - Postal/Discovery - Armstrong link from the MAnzano interview is the most interesting things I have read here in a long time.

Yes I'm shocked. I read that Armstrong was clean as they come. Not sure what to thing now. You mean "Its not about the bike" is fiction?

 

[sherer]

interesting comment from Manzano on this one.

Seems this is another investigation that covers multiple sports as part of this doping ring, so I assume only walkers and cyclists will have their names published with the footballers and others not being mentioned at all

 

[ChrisE]

As a former U.S. national racewalking team member (one of the slower ones), I do find it amusing to hear people bad-mouthing it because it looks stupid. It says a lot more about the insecurity of the commenter than about the sport.

Thanks.

I have been going to counceling to overcome my insecurities, but I still slip up every once in awhile.

 

[egtalbot]

I assume you are talking about my comment, but I can assure you there is no insecurity here. Anyone who wears lycra (i'm referring to ME) on a regular basis is hardly insecure about looking stupid now are they? I'm very comfortable looking stupid, there's nothing wrong with that.

I was not bad-mouthing racewalking, I actually praised them for being extremely fit, and i've looked at their 20k times and it's about what I used to run, so full credit to them for their fitness.

The only down side of "technique" sports is it's not a race of getting from A to B the quickest. It's a test of getting from A to B using a sub-optimal form of movement, which I find rather silly and not a true test of "athletic" ability. Rather, it's a combination of technique and athletics which hardly compares to the traditional foot races, IMO.

Actually, I was not referring to you - I quoted someone else. While I disagree with your opinion, certainly you made a reasoned argument.

First thing is that almost no sports are true tests of athletic abilities. One could easily argue that cycling is not a true test of athletic ability either. I After all, you're relying on the machine. And most cyclists work on technique or they would not be successful. And - most importantly - there would be no teams whatsoever and athletes would be disqualified for working together - that's if we want a true test of athletic ability. So cycling totally and utterly fails there.

Even if we had no teams and everyone use identical bikes maintained by neutral parties and were forbidden from practicing technique, it still wouldn't be as pure a test as a running race. I remember running a 50 mile trail race many years ago and they had a mountain bike 50 mile race going off in waves a few minutes before the runners. I heard a mountain biker grumbling about how full suspension was sort of like cheating and then another one saying that any suspension was like cheating. I couldn't resist telling them that actually using the bike at all was like cheating. Of course, if they were quick, they would have replied that wearing shoes (or clothes for that matter) was cheating as well.

I'd even suggest that running a marked course or a track isn't really a true test. Running naked from point A to point B however you can find to get there, with no aid other than what you can find on the course - that might be the only sport that is really a true test by your logic.

My point is that picking "get from point A to point B" as the true test of "athletic ability" is very arbitrary and cycling doesn't meet the criteria in any case. The Africans running barefoot at world cross country (though most of them throw on shoes due to sponsorship nowadays) is about the closest thing that exists.

Now, if someone wants to make the case that racewalking should be removed from the Olympics, I reluctantly agree that a strong case can be made. It's not drugs or lack of being a pure test, though. It's the lack of relative popularity. Even in strong countries like Russia, Spain and some of the Latin American countries, it's not like it has either a strong base of recreational athletes competing or a large sponsorship/fan base. The main case for it is that it is the most natural of human motions, but really racewalking has very little in common with regular walking. It would not shock me if the IAAF eventually removes it from competition, although the history of the sport is long enough that they would face pretty significant pushback from a variety of sources within track and field.

 

[Mellow Velo]

STATEMENT OF LANCE ARMSTRONG, U.S. POSTAL SERVICE PRO CYCLING TEAM
For many years now, dating back to 1990, Chris Carmichael has been my coach and most important technical and training advisor. Others who work with Chris include Johan Bruyneel, my director sportif, John Cobb, in charge of aerodynamics, Dr. Luis del Moral, our team physician and Jeff Spencer my chiropractor.

Also included are my close friends, former Belgian champion Eddy Merckx and former Motorola team director Jim Ochowitz.

Chris and I met Michele Ferrari during a training camp in San Diego, California, in 1995. His primary role has always been limited. Since Chris cannot be in Europe on an ongoing basis, Michele does my physiological testing and provides Chris with that data on a regular basis. Chris has grown to trust Michele's opinion regarding my testing and my form on the bike. And lately, we have been specifically working on a run at the hour record. I do not know exactly when I will do that, only that I will in the near future.

He has also consulted with Chris and me on dieting, altitude preparation, hypoxic training and the use of altitude tents, which are all natural methods of improvements.

In the past, I have never denied my relationship with Michele Ferrari. On the other hand, I have never gone out of my way to publicize it. The reason for that is that he has had a questionable public reputation due to the irresponsible comments he made in 1994 regarding EPO.

I want to make it clear that I do not associate myself with those remarks or, for that matter, with anyone who utilizes unethical sporting procedures. However, in my personal experience I have never had occasion to question the ethics or standard of care of Michele. Specifically, he has never discussed EPO with me and I have never used it.
I have always been very clear on the necessity of cycling to be a clean sport and I have firmly stated that anyone, including me, who tests positive for banned substances should be severely punished.

As everyone knows, I am one of the very few riders who have no prescriptions in my health book. I have been repeatedly tested during my career including during the entire 1999 and 2000 Tours de France and most recently during the Tour de Suisse ten days ago.

 

[Race Radio]

STATEMENT OF LANCE ARMSTRONG, U.S. POSTAL SERVICE PRO CYCLING TEAM
For many years now, dating back to 1990, Chris Carmichael has been my coach and most important technical and training advisor. Others who work with Chris include Johan Bruyneel, my director sportif, John Cobb, in charge of aerodynamics, Dr. Luis del Moral, our team physician and Jeff Spencer my chiropractor.

Also included are my close friends, former Belgian champion Eddy Merckx and former Motorola team director Jim Ochowitz.

Chris and I met Michele Ferrari during a training camp in San Diego, California, in 1995. His primary role has always been limited. Since Chris cannot be in Europe on an ongoing basis, Michele does my physiological testing and provides Chris with that data on a regular basis. Chris has grown to trust Michele's opinion regarding my testing and my form on the bike. And lately, we have been specifically working on a run at the hour record. I do not know exactly when I will do that, only that I will in the near future.

He has also consulted with Chris and me on dieting, altitude preparation, hypoxic training and the use of altitude tents, which are all natural methods of improvements.

In the past, I have never denied my relationship with Michele Ferrari. On the other hand, I have never gone out of my way to publicize it. The reason for that is that he has had a questionable public reputation due to the irresponsible comments he made in 1994 regarding EPO.

I want to make it clear that I do not associate myself with those remarks or, for that matter, with anyone who utilizes unethical sporting procedures. However, in my personal experience I have never had occasion to question the ethics or standard of care of Michele. Specifically, he has never discussed EPO with me and I have never used it.
I have always been very clear on the necessity of cycling to be a clean sport and I have firmly stated that anyone, including me, who tests positive for banned substances should be severely punished.

As everyone knows, I am one of the very few riders who have no prescriptions in my health book. I have been repeatedly tested during my career including during the entire 1999 and 2000 Tours de France and most recently during the Tour de Suisse ten days ago.

Comedy Gold