Most believable Tour in years?

[red_flanders]

I don't know, I'm starting to fall for it all again. Some exceptions at the top aside, this looks so utterly more believable than the absurdity of the last couple of years.

It's weird because after the first couple of hilly or mountain stages I was thinking the juice was strong across the boards and it was getting worse again. These guys look tired after a few days in the mountains. The guys finishing in the top ten appear in some cases pretty believable in terms of performances.

Maybe it's just that the two most powerful and explosive riders are out of it, and I know Nibali is going very fast, but a few places down it looks kind of normal.

Am I being a sucker? Benotti, don't answer that...

 

[thehog]

I don't know, I'm starting to fall for it all again. Some exceptions at the top aside, this looks so utterly more believable than the absurdity of the last couple of years.

It's weird because after the first couple of hilly or mountain stages I was thinking the juice was strong across the boards and it was getting worse again. These guys look tired after a few days in the mountains. The guys finishing in the top ten appear in some cases pretty believable in terms of performances.

Maybe it's just that the two most powerful and explosive riders are out of it, and I know Nibali is going very fast, but a few places down it looks kind of normal.

Am I being a sucker? Benotti, don't answer that...

Watching the battle between Pinot, Bardet, TVG etc. is very real for me. And I'm very much enjoying that battle. Even Valverde looks at his talent level.

Froome has distorted cycling to such a point that people don't know what's real and what's not. But when you watch the Top 10 playing out that's real cycling and not saddle accelerations every 30 seconds.

I think if Contador was here, he and Nibali would be above everyone else.
Nibali is somewhat believable because his real time gain wasn't stage 5 and is the most experienced rider in the field by far. Even Brailsford has realised that riding the way Nibali has is exiting and you don't need to smash the field like Froome does to win.

I'm enjoying the Tour and really liking the French Renaissance going on. Great to watch and it's great for cycling as well.

 

[maxmartin]

I don't know, I'm starting to fall for it all again. Some exceptions at the top aside, this looks so utterly more believable than the absurdity of the last couple of years.

It's weird because after the first couple of hilly or mountain stages I was thinking the juice was strong across the boards and it was getting worse again. These guys look tired after a few days in the mountains. The guys finishing in the top ten appear in some cases pretty believable in terms of performances.

Maybe it's just that the two most powerful and explosive riders are out of it, and I know Nibali is going very fast, but a few places down it looks kind of normal.

Am I being a sucker? Benotti, don't answer that...

definitely more believable than previous two years, the watts calculation is significantly lower than previous years.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Nah, not really, 2011 was way more believable.

Nibali's watts aren't through the roof but it looks like he's on a coffee ride.

 

[argyllflyer]

Good to see personal bias creeping in again. Nibali is on superb form this Tour and while I don't think he'd have the best part of 5 mins over the field of Froome and Contador were present, I do think he'd be in with a very good chance of holding his lead. I don't think however you'd be posting this thread in those circumstances.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Nibali is just as bad as Froome last year and Contador pre ban. Dominant and always in control. Can go faster when he wants in all terrains. Alien.

Blood and EPO doping imo. Similar model as all the other intra season donkey to racehorse dopers in the past: Armstrong, Basso, Schleck etc.

But below him things looks better and the players have provided one of the better tours in years. Of course helped by an excellent parcours which offers opportunities for racing on many stages.

Take out Nibali and this tour would have been a 9 out of 10 form me.

It would have enormous benefits to the sport if Nibali tested positive shortly after the tour.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

When Rafal Majka doesn't even have his own thread in the Clinic, I guess just about every performance is "believable".

I don't care how talented he is and how he was still fresh relative to the GC guys. And that's ignoring his second place the day before yesterday. Point is, he's never showed anything remotely similar to that. He was struggling to keep up in the Giro, even before his health issues.




It seems like Nibali has improved a bit, but is still not close to matching the estimated power outputs of Froome, Contador, Quintana, Rodriguez (Alpe d'Huez, Semnoz), as well as Aru.

So yeah, power outputs are likely way down, but the best climbers are not in the race or not in form (Rodriguez) for obvious reasons.

 

[SundayRider]

Nah, not really, 2011 was way more believable.

Nibali's watts aren't through the roof but it looks like he's on a coffee ride.

This. He just doesn't look in any difficulty whatsoever. Froome smashed the field more on mountain stages last year yes, but he looked to be suffering way more than Nibali this year. If Froome was racing as long as he was within a few minutes going into the TT he would win this Tour.

It is very hard to tell what is believable thought isn't it? Whichever way the race is raced you can come up with reasons that is not believable or reasons that it is.

 

[ebandit]

....................?

we are all suckers for the promise of better things..............I'm eternally

optimistic and am happier that things appear to be moving forward towards

a cleaner more believable future

for sure recent tours have seen some crazy ballistic performances from

many.....................it is rather obsessive to point the finger at any

individual...............but we can't always be rational

this years tour looks good......................but does his nibs look 'too good'

wonder? how tired he will look after thursday's stage.............will he out TT

tony?

Mark L

 

[GuyIncognito]

2008 when Clerc was coming down hard with actual doping tests was way slower than either this or 2011

 

[Winterfold]

Yes, except for Nibali looking like he's on a club run.

Ag2r are bossing it and I hold a lot of store in that.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Yes, except for Nibali looking like he's on a club run.

Ag2r are bossing it and I hold a lot of store in that.

Ag2r performs too broadly imo. Somewhat like the Steppers in Spring, except the brownies doesn't have anybody charged enough at the end to beat other contenders in a meaningful way. Thats why the battle for podium is exciting this year. No alien performances below Nibali.

Top 10 (minus 1 spot) are all in play with risk taking and tactics.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I'll give you my unbiassed view:

When a 37 year old Peraud podiums in Paris the signs are right'ish'.

I havent seen an Ax 3 Domaines or Ventoux *** modus, yet.

 

[whittashau]

I might be biased, but Nibali doesn't seem like a doper. I'm not saying he's not, but his temperament, personality, everything doesn't seem to lend itself to being a cheater.

Whereas most big riders who have been caught have fit the personality profile more often then not.

 

[SundayRider]

I might be biased, but Nibali doesn't seem like a doper. I'm not saying he's not, but his temperament, personality, everything doesn't seem to lend itself to being a cheater.

Whereas most big riders who have been caught have fit the personality profile more often then not.

There is no personailty profile for dopers. Look at USPS team, they were all doping - there was every different personality type under the sun on that team.

 

[Miburo]

Yea nibali is ridiculous but not that that crazy.

If saxo team was still complete in the tour well then...

 

[LaFlorecita]

I might be biased, but Nibali doesn't seem like a doper. I'm not saying he's not, but his temperament, personality, everything doesn't seem to lend itself to being a cheater.

Whereas most big riders who have been caught have fit the personality profile more often then not.

Don't let a rider's personality fool you. Good guys dope too.

 

[UlleGigo]

No Froome, no Contador cleans things up from the get go. But even with that aside this does seem very believable.

As has been mentioned the French renaissance adds credence to the cleaner view of things.

Nibali is within the limits of being believable. He's a really talented rider which always helps too. The cobble stage showed his nous. Every descent the man has ridden since being an espoir shows his skill. I reserve my right to adjust my assessment if he Tony Martins the time trial. But I really doubt we will see anything dodgy there either.

All round I'm like others. Easily sucked in given the right conditions. Fool me once and all that but hey we can dream can't we?

 

[Rollthedice]

Don't let a rider's personality fool you. Good guys dope too.

Well, when asked if he ever met the good doctor Feelgood, he looked the guy who asked him in the eyes from 2 meters away and said no. But we already knew that Nibali has balls.

 

[whittashau]

" Those who know him and his parents well say that his father, Salvatore, waved him off into the pro peloton with a message along these lines: “Enzo [how he’s known at home], I’m happy that you’re going to be a cyclist because it was your dream. You might win or lose, but the only thing you must never do is cheat. Because, if you do, you can forget about ever coming back to Sicily.”

 

[LaFlorecita]

Well, when asked if he ever met the good doctor Feelgood, he looked the guy who asked him in the eyes from 2 meters away and said no. But we already knew that Nibali has balls.

" Those who know him and his parents well say that his father, Salvatore, waved him off into the pro peloton with a message along these lines: “Enzo [how he’s known at home], I’m happy that you’re going to be a cyclist because it was your dream. You might win or lose, but the only thing you must never do is cheat. Because, if you do, you can forget about ever coming back to Sicily.”

I'm not going to convince you Nibali is a doper. You're free to believe whatever you want.

Whittashau, you can find similar stories about a lot of cyclists.

 

[whittashau]

I don't believe either way. I guess you could say that I'm agnostic when it comes to doping in general.

 

[red_flanders]

Nibali is just as bad as Froome last year and Contador pre ban. Dominant and always in control. Can go faster when he wants in all terrains. Alien.

Blood and EPO doping imo. Similar model as all the other intra season donkey to racehorse dopers in the past: Armstrong, Basso, Schleck etc.

But below him things looks better and the players have provided one of the better tours in years. Of course helped by an excellent parcours which offers opportunities for racing on many stages.

Take out Nibali and this tour would have been a 9 out of 10 form me.

It would have enormous benefits to the sport if Nibali tested positive shortly after the tour.

We are on the same page.

Good to see personal bias creeping in again. Nibali is on superb form this Tour and while I don't think he'd have the best part of 5 mins over the field of Froome and Contador were present, I do think he'd be in with a very good chance of holding his lead. I don't think however you'd be posting this thread in those circumstances.

Say what? One, who are you and what do you know of my bias? Two, no, I would not be posting this threas if Contador, Froome and Nibali we're duking it out at 6.5+ w/kg on every col.

That was my point. You may have missed me saying:

Maybe it's just that the two most powerful and explosive riders are out of it, and I know Nibali is going very fast, but a few places down it looks kind of normal.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

The way Nibali rides he could be the most jacked up GT specialist out there. Breathing through the nose and all that. I think he's a great talent, but not one of the very best.

Was probably dirtier before, though. Climbed Zoncolan faster as a young pro than in 2011. From Jens' blog:


Saturday, 31 May 2014
Who can crawl better? Top 100 fastest ascents of the Monte Zoncolan

1. 2007: 39:03 Gilberto Simoni 15.06 km/h
2. 2007: 39:03 Leonardo Piepoli 15.06 km/h
3. 2007: 39:10 Andy Schleck 15.01 km/h
4. 2007: 39:34 Danilo Di Luca 14.86 km/h
5. 2007: 39:40 Damiano Cunego 14.82 km/h
6. 2007: 40:22 Julio Alberto Perez Cuapio 14.57 km/h
7. 2010: 40:42 Ivan Basso 14.45 km/h
8. 2007: 40:43 Franco Pellizotti 14.44 km/h
9. 2011: 40:52 Igor Anton 14.39 km/h
10. 2007: 41:00 Marzio Bruseghin 14.34 km/h
11. 2007: 41:05 Ivan Parra 14.31 km/h
12. 2007: 41:11 Vincenzo Nibali 14.28 km/h
13. 2007: 41:14 Riccardo Ricco 14.26 km/h
14. 2011: 41:25 Alberto Contador 14.20 km/h
15. 2007: 41:29 Eddy Mazzoleni 14.17 km/h
16. 2014: 41:30 Rigoberto Uran 14.17 km/h
17. 2011: 41:32 Vincenzo Nibali 14.16 km/h

[...]

http://www.climbing-records.com/2014_05_01_archive.html

 

[MBotero]

So people believe that this Tour is cleaner and look more believable because Contador and Froome are not here anymore and the only question mark is Nibali who's blocking the clean guys road to victory.Maybe is time for an online petition to interdict those 3 guys,so everybody can enjoy the beautiful era of clean cycling.People tend to forget that doping effects are not the same for everybody,teams use different strategies and not every donkey can win a GT.
Also i have a wonder about that"cleaner"word which was used last year to describe Contador and i saw it used for Nibali,Valverde or the random french guys this year,i don't get it a guy is doping or not,there is no middle way.If you dope less,you are not cleaner,you are still a doper.