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Most Improved/Weakened Team for '11

Now that most of the transfer saga seems to have blown over (The continuing story of Franco Pellizotti appears to be unresolved) I want you to rate the top 3 most improved teams and the top 3 most weakened teams going into next year. For obvious reasons don’t include new teams or teams that are going/went out of business. My take:

Most Improved:

1. Geox: Rather obvious pick this. With the exception of Cardoso they've hung on to most of the riders who were worth being on a big team, and have added very good riders like Menchov, Sastre, Cobo, and David Blanco. They've got some decent support riders in as well like Ardilla, Colli, and de la Fuente, and have signed some bright young talents like Duarte, Kump, and Ratto... Yes, they've not got any proven riders for the classics, and their sprinting look woeful, but at least this team looks like it will be able field some excellent GC squads. I would've given them a WorldTour licence over Quick-Step, Ag2R and perhaps Vacalsoleil as well... But it wasn't up to me. Hope the team does not end up collapsing as has been rumoured, since I think they'll be able to go places over the next few years.

2. Garmin-Cervelo: They've got the best classics team in the business now, and their already formidable sprinting squad now perhaps eclipses HTC's in depth and strength. All their roster losses seem to be compensated by better riders coming in. The only complaint is that their questionable GC line-up doesn't really improve despite the addition of le Mevel, although with the sprinting/stage-winning machine they've contructed I doubt GCs will be their top priority anyway.

3. Omega Pharma Lotto: Their big signing, Andre Greipel, is a top sprinter, which is something Lotto didn't really have. The addition of a few pieces of the HTC train like Hansen and Sieberg, should help with Greipel's transition to his new team. Greipel guarantees them at least a dozen wins next year, which will more double what they got this year. Oscar Pujol from Cervelo is another solid signing. They do incur a few losses which keep them at #3, like van Avermaet, Peraud (who would've been very useful for VdB2 in the Tour next year) and Daniel Moreno. The 'loss' of Hoste is, to me, a gain for the team.


Most Weakened:

1. Saxo Bank-Sungard: This placing assumes the fact that Contador's lawyers will not succeed in their attempts to obfuscate their way to an accuital in the clenbuterol/plastic residue case. However, I might feel inclined to 'award' them this place even if Bertie-boy gets off, since they'll still have gone from the best classics team in the business to one of the most anaemic, as well as losing some of their key road captains and support riders. The back-office brain drain should be factored in as well.

2. HTC: They lose their #2 rider in Andre Greipel, as well as some of his support riders to Lotto. They also lose important guys like Rogers and Monfort, as well as one of their bigger talents in Rasmus Guldhammer (who I'll admit hadn't exactly performed as well as people expected in his first pro year). They have brought in a potential superstar in Degenkolb, and a guy like Alex Rasmussen should fit very well into their train. But all in all, significant losses with little to compensate.

3. BBox/Europcar: Tricky pick this, but I went for Europcar in the end. They were always a plucky little team, but the delay in finding a new sponsor cost them dearly. They lose Fedrigo, Vogondy, Tschopp, Trofimov, and Bonnet, as wel as some of their domestique types. In return they get a past-it Sebastian Chavanel and Christophe Kern... They'll have to fight and ride hard to get into the TdF I warrant.
 
A

Anonymous

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I think Geox springs to mind. Garmin/Cervelo i discount as that really is a merge of two teams.

I would actually (and not being biased) have sky up there. Uran is a great talent, Zandio brings some climbing experience, Dowsett has potential, Rogers brings experience, and Knaven and Julich are great additions to the staff. Plus DB taking more of a back seat, they go into next year much stronger.

HTC losers? time will tell. We say this every year, and every year they do just fine.
 
TeamSkyFans said:
I think Geox springs to mind. Garmin/Cervelo i discount as that really is a merge of two teams.

I would actually (and not being biased) have sky up there. Uran is a great talent, Zandio brings some climbing experience, Dowsett has potential, Rogers brings experience, and Knaven and Julich are great additions to the staff. Plus DB taking more of a back seat, they go into next year much stronger.

HTC losers? time will tell. We say this every year, and every year they do just fine.

Well, they did take a step back this year. Went from 85 victories to 64. 13'000 CQ points to 11'000 (approximately the CQ value of the entire Acqua & Sapone team, although that still leaves them 1st in CQ ranking) and slid from 3rd to 6th in the UCI's World Rankings for teams. I'd say that qualifies as taking a step back this year, and will take a similar step back next year.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying HTC is going to be bad or mediocre next year. Just that they won't be as great.
 
Dec 8, 2010
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I think Rabobank have done well in the transfer market. Ok, they lost Denis Menchov, but as Menchov's career winds down, Gesink's is just getting going. With the lack of time trial miles in the Tour next year, in my opinion, Gesink will finish above Menchov in 2011. The other notable absentees for next year are a couple of under-performing classics riders - Nuyens and Posthuma.

Coming in they have one of the best young classics riders around in Matti Breschel. Carlos Barredo is always good for a few wins. Two great young sprinters in Theo Bos and Michael Matthews. And a rider who will probably win a couple of week long stage races in Luis Leon Sanchez.

Definitely a big improvement on last year's squad I reckon.
 
LeakyLens said:
I think Rabobank have done well in the transfer market. Ok, they lost Denis Menchov, but as Menchov's career winds down, Gesink's is just getting going. With the lack of time trial miles in the Tour next year, in my opinion, Gesink will finish above Menchov in 2011. The other notable absentees for next year are a couple of under-performing classics riders - Nuyens and Posthuma.

Coming in they have one of the best young classics riders around in Matti Breschel. Carlos Barredo is always good for a few wins. Two great young sprinters in Theo Bos and Michael Matthews. And a rider who will probably win a couple of week long stage races in Luis Leon Sanchez.

Definitely a big improvement on last year's squad I reckon.

What about the loss of Koos... Pretty sad blow that. Rabo will regret losing him dearly when they flunk the TTT at the Tour next year.
 
Most Improved:

1 Geox - No need to add to what was said in OP
2 Garmin-Cervelo - No need to add to what was said in OP
3 BMC - The team had a handful known names and a bunch of pretty much unknowns. They have for next year replaced several of the unknowns with better known riders like Van Avermaet, Quinziato, Tschopp, Santaromita, Phinney and Moinard.

Most weakened:

1 Saxo Bank - No need to add to what was said in OP
2 HTC - Eventhough they will still be one of the best if not the best team their departures still outweigh their arrivals.
3 Quick Step - They're losing a lot of key talents especially for the classics in Barredo, Hulsmans, Devolder, Wynants Tosatto, Van De Walle, Weylandt. They are mainly replacing some sprinting talent plus getting Terpstra but overall I think they are weaker than before.
 
I dont think Liquigas will be as strong in 2011 as they were this year, they have lost Kreuziger, main sprinters Bennati(despite poor season) Chicchi and decent riders like Quinziato, Santaromita, Willems etc.

I dont know if the riders they signed will be up to the same standard.
 
Moondance said:
What about the loss of Koos... Pretty sad blow that. Rabo will regret losing him dearly when they flunk the TTT at the Tour next year.
Moerenhout's career went out with a bang, and he's a good road captain, but come on, he's not Denis Menchov or something. And he hasn't posted any remarkable TTT results, that I know of.
 

ttrider

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Although i dont like Kreuzinger as a leader he was so valuable in the vuelta as Nibalis super domestique, i agree with pmcg76, sprint team gone and no replacement with the loss of Kreuzinger and Kiserlovski adding to the woes with pellizotti also a possible departure

Agree on Sky big improvement for sure Rogers Uran and Zandio are very good

Obviously Astana have massively regressed for 2011 with no Contador

Radio Shacks roster also really bad as everyone is a year further over the hill

Movistar is worse in my opinion losing LLS and Uran is a real shame admittedly Tondo and Insausti are good buys
 
I think one should consider the relative strengh of the riders in comparision to the teams when doing this. i.e. Greipel's move from HTC to Lotto improves Lotto's team more than it weakens HTC's team. So my top 3 improved and top 3 weakened team is based on an expectation of which teams will do relatively better or worse in 2011 than in 2010 (like when comparing CQ Rankings).

Most improved:

1. Geox

The addition of Sastre, Menchov, Ardila, Blanco, Wyss and young talents like Kump, Ratto and Duarte definately outweights the losses of Cardoso, Capecchi and Pedersen especially when considering the strenght of the team in 2010.

2. BMC

Based on relative strenght when comparing the 2010 and the 2011 squads, BMC deserves a second place. They have their 2010 team intact (well almost) while adding the likes of Avermaet, Moniard, Quinziato, Tschopp and talents like Phinney, Roe and Eijssen.

3. Omega Pharma Lotto

Basically this is due to Greipel which adds some sprinting quality and wins to the team with his train of Hansen and Sieberg. They've also been strenghtened with names like Willems, Veikkanen, Van De Walle, Pujol, while adding some exciting names in Debusschere, Vandousselaere, De Clercq and Boucher.

Most weakened:

1. Saxo Bank-Sungaard

I don't think there's much to add.

2. HTC

They will still do well next year but not nearly as well as this year. Greipel was responsiple for 21 of HTC's victories last year, and although they do have some riders to replace, they don't someone at that level. Hansen and Sieberg are gone also along with Monfort and Rogers. In has come Rasmussen and Pate and, admitedly, some great prospects.

3. Europcar

Maybe they even should be 2nd. They've lost Chainel, Bonnet, Tschopp, Vogondy, Trofimov and Fedrigo and replaced them with Kern, Sebastien Chavanel and Cousin? Not a good trade.
 
Apr 26, 2010
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ttrider said:
Although i dont like Kreuzinger as a leader he was so valuable in the vuelta as Nibalis super domestique, i agree with pmcg76, sprint team gone and no replacement with the loss of Kreuzinger and Kiserlovski adding to the woes with pellizotti also a possible departure
How can loss of Pellizotti be an improvement or weakening if he didn't ride for the team this year?

ttrider said:
Obviously Astana have massively regressed for 2011 with no Contador
Liquigas, the most successful pro tour team of 2010, loses Kreuziger and Kiserlovski and you call it a huge loss.
Astana picks up the same Kreuziger and Kiserlovski and you call it no big deal.
________
Cheapest vaporizers
 
I actually think that Liquigas has done a good job. Sure, they've lost Bennati and Chicchi but they got two promising sprinters coming through in Viviani and Guarnieri who, admittedly, aren't at se the same level yet but has a good amount og potential.

Kreuziger, Kiserlovski, Willems etc. have been replaced by some really interesting names in Caruso, Capecchi and Salerno.

Sure they've lost some overall, but I reckon it won't be that bad.

Oh and on Astana: sure it's a major blow to lose Contador as noone is able to replace him, but they've done a good job finding some solutions in Kreuziger, Masciarelli, Di Gregorio, Kiserlovski along with Vaitkus, Kessiakoff etc.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Hugo Koblet said:
I actually think that Liquigas has done a good job. Sure, they've lost Bennati and Chicchi but they got two promising sprinters coming through in Viviani and Guarnieri who, admittedly, aren't at se the same level yet but has a good amount og potential.

Kreuziger, Kiserlovski, Willems etc. have been replaced by some really interesting names in Caruso, Capecchi and Salerno.

Sure they've lost some overall, but I reckon it won't be that bad.

Oh and on Astana: sure it's a major blow to lose Contador as noone is able to replace him, but they've done a good job finding some solutions in Kreuziger, Masciarelli, Di Gregorio, Kiserlovski along with Vaitkus, Kessiakoff etc.

Losing Contador is probably the best thing that could happen to Astana when looking in hindsight. With him testing positive and all...
 
Nov 17, 2009
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ttrider said:
Radio Shacks roster also really bad as everyone is a year further over the hill

In terms of pure numbers, RS lost about 500 CQ points, and added about 700.

But you raise an interesting point about declining results. Armstrong will not be riding in all that much, so his output will go down (he did finish second in the Tour de Suisse). I think it's impossible for Horner to repeat his 2010 season (1140 CQ points) with another year under his belt. Leipheimer and Kloden? They went down last year, but it's possible they could plateu at this level for a year... Zubeldia has been sitting at that level for a while.

On the flip side... I can see Brajkovic continuing to improve... Hermans and Machado as well. Some of the other youngsters as well.


Overall... I see them being about the same. Losses mostly from Lance and Horner, gains mostly from Brajkovic, Hermans and Machado.
 
Oct 26, 2010
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theyoungest said:
Moerenhout's career went out with a bang, and he's a good road captain, but come on, he's not Denis Menchov or something. And he hasn't posted any remarkable TTT results, that I know of.

7th worlds 09 and 10, also top10 2nd TT last Tour... that's around the usual position for guys like Rogers, zabriskie, wiggins (allthough on a good day they may be better). He has very good TT's, but I think the reason you didn't know is that he is only very consistent and has no top-day with a topresult...
 
No one is mentioning Vacansaleil?

Sure they were great, but now they have Ricco, Stijn Devolder and looks like Mosquera will ride.


Geox obviously.

HTC i dont think have weakened that mich. They lost George and EBH last year but remained the best team.

Cav will still gain them lots, they have so many quality time trialists, Goss can step up to sprinting once in a while and Velits can get top 10 in gts. Maybe Teejay as well. What can Tony Martin do?

And most of these guys are still improving. So while they may lose something with Greipel and Mick, they gain across the board with steady increase in abilty in their top riders.


Having Greipel and rogers there was just showing off.
 
Jun 30, 2009
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LeakyLens said:
I think Rabobank have done well in the transfer market. Ok, they lost Denis Menchov, but as Menchov's career winds down, Gesink's is just getting going. With the lack of time trial miles in the Tour next year, in my opinion, Gesink will finish above Menchov in 2011. The other notable absentees for next year are a couple of under-performing classics riders - Nuyens and Posthuma.

Coming in they have one of the best young classics riders around in Matti Breschel. Carlos Barredo is always good for a few wins. Two great young sprinters in Theo Bos and Michael Matthews. And a rider who will probably win a couple of week long stage races in Luis Leon Sanchez.

Definitely a big improvement on last year's squad I reckon.

+1 to this.

I think that Saxo has lost out the most with not only a huge amount of their riders leaving but also a lot of the teams staff too. I think that is an underestimated factor. For example, Team Sky had a rough year with a lot of growing pains and I think that has a lot to do with a new group of riders in addition to new staff, none of the dynamic has been established yet.
 
Oct 28, 2010
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I do not like these terms: "most improved", "most weakened"... What does it mean? It means nothing. The Geox team lineup improved a lot, but did it help them?
I don't like Garmin's team building, they have huge classic overbalance even though they are of the strongest teams for 2011.
I also don't think HTC became weaker, they are narrowly specialized team that have constant strategy of development. They simply follow this strategy although sometimes it is boring.
I appreciate 2011 Astana team way more than 2010. They became more interesting for me.
I like the way Lotto, Vacansoleil, Liquigas, Rabo and Ag2R renewed their lineups, feel sorry for Topsport, BBox and Acqua Sapone that have lost some important riders and wonder how Euskadi's improving even without great signings.
But the evaluation of improvement or weakening depends on 2011 season results and nothing more.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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ingsve said:
3 Quick Step - They're losing a lot of key talents especially for the classics in Barredo, Hulsmans, Devolder, Wynants Tosatto, Van De Walle, Weylandt. They are mainly replacing some sprinting talent plus getting Terpstra but overall I think they are weaker than before.

Maybe they are shifting their focus a little bit. With Chicchi and Ciolek coming in I think they have one of the best sprinter squads
 
Matthijs said:
7th worlds 09 and 10, also top10 2nd TT last Tour... that's around the usual position for guys like Rogers, zabriskie, wiggins (allthough on a good day they may be better). He has very good TT's, but I think the reason you didn't know is that he is only very consistent and has no top-day with a topresult...
I know he's probably been Holland's best time trialist in the past 2 years, but I was talking about TTTs... you know, team time trials. That's a different kind of ball game. No TTT squad with him in it ever did something out of the ordinary.
 

ttrider

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Apr 23, 2010
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rxgqgxnyfz said:
How can loss of Pellizotti be an improvement or weakening if he didn't ride for the team this year?


Liquigas, the most successful pro tour team of 2010, loses Kreuziger and Kiserlovski and you call it a huge loss.
Astana picks up the same Kreuziger and Kiserlovski and you call it no big deal.


Its not as though Kreuzinger is going to win the tour with Kiserlovski as his super domestique where as Contador just did win with Navarro as his super domestique idiot!
2 valuable domestiques not replaced = big level down
2 valuable domestiques in exchange for 1 valuable domestique and Contador
not hard to see which one is better is it now
 
Christian said:
Maybe they are shifting their focus a little bit. With Chicchi and Ciolek coming in I think they have one of the best sprinter squads

Yes, but it's not like they were that weak in sprints to begin with through Boonen and Weylandt so while it's an improvement on that side the relative improvement is not as dramatic as one would assume. Essentially Weylandt is replaced by Ciolek and then they add Chicchi who while being very fast at times is also very inconsistent.
 
In terms of results, Sky could very well become one of the most improved teams. They have some good new signing, and in addition, their youngsters will probably take a step up (EBH, Geraint, Swift, Stannard...). I think they will get a few GT stages, like 3-4 or so, as well as a monument and/or a GC win in an important one week tour.
 
maltiv said:
In terms of results, Sky could very well become one of the most improved teams. They have some good new signing, and in addition, their youngsters will probably take a step up (EBH, Geraint, Swift, Stannard...). I think they will get a few GT stages, like 3-4 or so, as well as a monument and/or a GC win in an important one week tour.

I think that sounds like a very optimistic goal. I have a hard time seeing Sky winning any monuments next year. I would settle for a semi-classic or two as a goal. As for GT stages then a few is certainly possible. I also wouldn't put money on winning a top one week stage races unless you count things like Eneco Tour which is within grasp. Other than that I would be happy if Sky had a steady top 10 presence in most stage races and a podium or two would be nice.