My top ten, on talent

[Charlyghoul]

Here is my personal top ten of all time, it takes in to account results, but also riders who lost a lot of their career due to war, injuries and other things.

Merckx
Bartali
Coppi
Girardengo
Hinault
Anquetil
Binda
Pogacar
Lemond
Indurain

Of course there is an addendum in that Pogacar is only 26 and the only active rider on the list. Where do you think Pogacar will rank when he hangs up the wheels?

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Define talent? A word mis-used too often. Having superior physiology isn't really talent, is it?

 

[Charlyghoul]

Define talent? A word mis-used too often. Having superior physiology isn't really talent, is it?

True , good point.
What i mean I suppose is if we take who we think are the best in their prime and put results as secondary.
For example a lot of people claim Tadej is the best on talent, though he doesn’t yet have the results of other greats.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Define talent? A word mis-used too often. Having superior physiology isn't really talent, is it?

Then what is?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Define talent? A word mis-used too often. Having superior physiology isn't really talent, is it?

True, then the ten most talented cyclists are some random guys who have better hand-eye coordination, which is somehow not physiological. Maybe they do BMX or something because they don‘t need good lung volume or a strong heart apparently.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

There is absolutely no way you can do a top-10 on natural ability and not include Freddy Maertens.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

There is absolutely no way you can do a top-10 on natural ability and not include Freddy Maertens.

There is no way you can compare over generations. Everything is in reference to opposition at that time and you can't compare raw results/times due to different training methods and material. It's all gut feeling. There is no way of knowing whether Merckx would have dominated todays talents, or whether Jay Hindley would have won 5 Tours in the 50s.

 

[Brullnux]

There is no way you can compare over generations. Everything is in reference to opposition at that time and you can't compare raw results/times due to different training methods and material. It's all gut feeling. There is no way of knowing whether Merckx would have dominated todays talents, or whether Jay Hindley would have won 5 Tours in the 50s.

Absolutely, and this rings even truer given the differences between the watts/times today and ten years ago. I refuse to believe Contador and Froome would have been on par with like Almeida (or worse). You can only really judge people on their record, placed in the context of their own generation.

 

[Valv.Piti]

From when I started watching cycling in the mid 00's, lets say post Puerto:

1. Pogacar
2. Valverde
3. Remco
4. WVA
5. Van der Poel
6. Sagan
7. Contador
8. Cancellara
9. Boonen
10. Vingegaard

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

From when I started watching cycling in the mid 00's, lets say post Puerto:

1. Pogacar
2. Valverde
3. Remco
4. WVA
5. Van der Poel
6. Sagan
7. Contador
8. Cancellara
9. Boonen
10. Vingegaard

I'd put Evenepoel on 2 (and i actually think Valverde would agree), but Van Aert vs Van der Poel is mainly a question of one day vs stages. Van Aert has proven time and again that he is far superior in a stage race and after fatigue sets in. In 1 day races though, i think the opposite is quite clear. If Van Aert had not been such a beast during July, there is no way he would be in the conversation, let alone above Boonen or Cancellara. Or even Gilbert.

But your list makes one thing even more clear, not just era's are difficult to compare, but also disciplines. How do you compare Van der Poel to Contador. Should Cavendish not be in the list. Or Gilbert. Etc. Sprinters vs GC guys vs classics specialists etc.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Nibbles over Van Aert

 

[Valv.Piti]

I'd put Evenepoel on 2 (and i actually think Valverde would agree), but Van Aert vs Van der Poel is mainly a question of one day vs stages. Van Aert has proven time and again that he is far superior in a stage race and after fatigue sets in. In 1 day races though, i think the opposite is quite clear. If Van Aert had not been such a beast during July, there is no way he would be in the conversation, let alone above Boonen or Cancellara. Or even Gilbert.

But your list makes one thing even more clear, not just era's are difficult to compare, but also disciplines. How do you compare Van der Poel to Contador. Should Cavendish not be in the list. Or Gilbert. Etc. Sprinters vs GC guys vs classics specialists etc.

Cavendish definitely doesn't belong on this list. Only "sprinters" like Boonen, Sagan, Wout etc. has a place on a top-10 list during the last 20 years.

 

[Links2003]

I find it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to compile such a list across many eras. It's usually impossible to compare them. In some periods, there may have been less competition. Oriders drivers an advantage, etc.

If anything, it might make sense to do it in 10-year increments or so, so that you can compare it reasonably well, also in terms of circumstances, etc.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Here is my personal top ten of all time, it takes in to account results, but also riders who lost a lot of their career due to war, injuries and other things.

Merckx
Bartali
Coppi
Girardengo
Hinault
Anquetil
Binda
Pogacar
Lemond
Indurain

Of course there is an addendum in that Pogacar is only 26 and the only active rider on the list. Where do you think Pogacar will rank when he hangs up the wheels?

This list is purely guys who won multiple grand tours.
Althogh they had war impacted careers Coppi and Bartali both make most peoples lists anyway, what about the riders who actually lost their life in a war like Petit Breton.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Cavendish definitely doesn't belong on this list. Only "sprinters" like Boonen, Sagan, Wout etc. has a place on a top-10 list during the last 20 years.

Could any of those 3 win a World Madison Championship? Those guys could no sooner do the things that Cavendish has done than Cavendish could do what they've done.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Could any of those 3 win a World Madison Championship? Those guys could no sooner do the things that Cavendish has done than Cavendish could do what they've done.

I don't know if they would, I barely know what that is, but that really isn't relevant to this discussion. You are talking track cycling, a minor discipline that 99% of people dont give a crap for outside of one week of racing every 4th year.

 

[tobydawq]

Here is my personal top ten of all time, it takes in to account results, but also riders who lost a lot of their career due to war, injuries and other things.

Merckx
Bartali
Coppi
Girardengo
Hinault
Anquetil
Binda
Pogacar
Lemond
Indurain

Of course there is an addendum in that Pogacar is only 26 and the only active rider on the list. Where do you think Pogacar will rank when he hangs up the wheels?

What's even the point in having Pogacar so far down?

 

[Charlyghoul]

Sagan could win one

 

[Hugh Januss]

I don't know if they would, I barely know what that is, but that really isn't relevant to this discussion. You are talking track cycling, a minor discipline that 99% of people dont give a crap for outside of one week of racing every 4th year.

Okay, let's go off of TDF stage wins then.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Okay, let's go off of TDF stage wins then.

No, lets just stick to road cycling instead.

 

[Charlyghoul]

What's even the point in having Pogacar so far down?

I just think that’s where he is at the moment, he can overtake a lot of the rest if he keeps going

 

[AmRacer]

Here is my personal top ten of all time, it takes in to account results, but also riders who lost a lot of their career due to war, injuries and other things.

Merckx
Bartali
Coppi
Girardengo
Hinault
Anquetil
Binda
Pogacar
Lemond
Indurain

Of course there is an addendum in that Pogacar is only 26 and the only active rider on the list. Where do you think Pogacar will rank when he hangs up the wheels?

Rogla would have won 5 Tours hadn't he crashed. And Froome 8.

 

[Hugh Januss]

No, lets just stick to road cycling instead.

Okay got it, cycling is only what you say it is.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I just think that’s where he is at the moment, he can overtake a lot of the rest if he keeps going

Youre talking palmarés now where as your OP clearly stated we are talking about talent

 

[Charlyghoul]

Youre talking palmarés now where as your OP clearly stated we are talking about talent

Yeah but the riders there on talent are ones that had their careers taken from no fault of their own.
Pogi if he retires that’s on him, if there’s world war 3 I will re-assess the list.