National Football League

[Tricycle Rider]

Cool. Now, in a couple years when Jacksonville moves to London...

Seriously, this may sound nuts, but if they brought back the Concord jet, there could be teams in Europe. They'd have to share the jet(s), have home and away games in blocks of 4 weeks at a time, and only play East coast teams, but it's doable.

I can see the NFL overseas if the Concorde was still an option, but what was the probem with it? Too much jet fuel spent, poor safety record?

(You'll have to refresh my memory, I'm getting a bit long in the tooth.)

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

@Alpe.... sorry to hear about Todd C. Liver transplant that went south I heard due to blood clot.

@TricRider... You sure u want to go with Tenn? QB Jake Locker is out for the season with a Lisfranc ligament tear in his foot. As of the last 2 weeks I have become very familiar with this injury, but not to me. Interesting note, this ligament was named after Napoleon's surgeon.

 

[Amsterhammer]

@Alpe.... sorry to hear about Todd C. Liver transplant that went south I heard due to blood clot.

@TricRider... You sure u want to go with Tenn? QB Jake Locker is out for the season with a Lisfranc ligament tear in his foot. As of the last 2 weeks I have become very familiar with this injury, but not to me. Interesting note, this ligament was named after Napoleon's surgeon.

Thanks for this info 3man. I was gonna go with the Titans in view of how shambolic the Colts were last week. But with Locker out I'll take the Colts to bounce back.

IND@TEN

I'll play next season.

Trike - there was the small matter of the Concorde crash in Paris, remember?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annota...c6uhNhbBNj-&src_vid=iIa8rz_XIDw&v=YqgvQrMPuPs

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

IND@TEN - Could be close tho.

Will edit for others later.

 

[The Hitch]

Showing some real faith in Luck's 4th quarter comeback skills there Alpe

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Since no one picks TEN, i´ll pick them. Especially when the backup QB is playing. That´s my favourite picks* b/c starting QBs are way over valued, as I preach now and then.



(* = unless, of course the backup is injured and a cold no-reps backup backup comes in like in GB last week, and i put money on it )

 

[The Hitch]

Very brave picking the titans when they were 14 points up foxy

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Andrew Luck made me look smarter than I am.

NYJ@BUF - Jets are due for a loss.
BAL@CHI - Both teams have many problems, but are dangerous.
CLE@CIN - Bengals bounce back.
OAK@HOU - As bad as both teams are, have to pick someone.
ARI@JAX - Jags fall back to earth.
WAS@PHI - Skins D won't stop Foles/McCoy.
DET@PIT - Lions could lose this.
ATL@TB - Could TB win two in a row?
SD@MIA - Dolphins a train wreck.
SF@NO - Saints don't lose at home.
GB@NYG - If Tolzein is up to it, Packers could win.
MIN@SEA - Seattle almost back to normal. Look for a huge game from Russell.
KC@DEN - Manning is hurt, but Broncos better than 6-3 Chiefs.
NE@CAR - NE still has problems, and Carolina is really on a roll.

You guys should hear the NY chatter about the Giants comeback. Fans are so giddy they could climb back to 4-6, then take on Dallas next week and end up in first at 5-6. They seem to be ignoring the fact the Giants have beaten some crummy, injured teams, in the weakest division in the NFL, and they looked sketchy almost every single game.

Now that Incognito is filing a grievance against the Dolphins, Miami is going to have a hard time winning.

Seattle has the Vikings to beat up on this week, before they need to return to early season form heading into the last third of the season. If they can, they could easily finish 14-2, and will be unbeatable at home.

I've seen a few of the Chiefs games this year, and I was joking about the 6-3 record, but that's honestly what they look like. An above average team, who got to 9-0 on a pretty soft schedule. Even with Manning hurt, I still think the Broncos will jump to a lead, score over 30 points on the Chiefs, and Smith will have a good game, but won't match it. It could be one of those 33-16 games we see that are basically over by halftime.

I picked the Panthers above, but this has historically be the type of game where Brady comes to life. The game will be if the Panthers front 4 can get to Brady and disrupt his passing. Should be fun to watch.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So who gives in? The best O (DEN) or the best D (KC).

If the old saying "defense wins championships" is true, then the KC-DEN game should be below the average of both teams scoring and allowing (371+238+215+111* divided by 18 games played by both teams so far = 51.9).

So who believes in the "defense saying" should say both teams score less than 52 points on sunday. Those who think great offenses have the advantage over great defenses should say there will be more than 52 points on sundays game.

I hope I get some picks here.

I´ll start. I say over 52 points. I believe offenses have the advantage since I follow football in the 80s.

(* = 371 points for DEN, 238 given up; 215 points for KC, 111 given up)

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

BTW, Vegas has the over/under at around 50. I guess they calculated "Nevous Peyton" into their line.
Serious, I think it´s b/c of PM´s injury. It has some merit.
Anyway, injury or not, nervous or not, DEN wins. 30-27*.

(* = KC scoring on three returns , no just kidding. DEN defense isn´t that good, actually their Pass-D is well below NFL-Avg. So even Smiths led offense should be able to score some TDs)

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Packers put Seneca on season-ending injured reserve. So Flynn will now be the No. 2 behind Scott Tolzien against the Giants next Sunday. I guess that means Matt is the backup backup until Rogers returns, when he would then become the backup backup backup unless he can beat out Tolzien for the #2 spot.

Wow, now I read it too. They put Wallace on IR with a groin injury.
It seems they didn´t trust him very much after what they saw in his one quarter action, and so with the IR-Move they gained a roster spot for Flynn as the backup backup. That means Wallace in reality is only a backup backup backup for them now.
At the moment we can summarize the GB-QB-Shuffle as follows (they should make a video like the 85 Bears now http://www.break.com/video/ugc/chicago-bears-super-bowl-shuffle-rap-song-443793):
Before Rodgers injury;
Rodgers = true starter
Wallace = backup
Tolzien = backup backup (FA at GBs practise squad)
After Rodgers injury;
Rodgers = true starter, but injured
Tolzien = backup (signed as FA from own practise squad = the big winner so far in the great northern shuffle), now interim starter
Flynn = backup backup (from FA to yet another roster; the lotto winner, no playing no risk but earning big bucks. He must feel happy like Cavanaugh did as a long term clipboard holder)
Wallace = backup backup backup (only to IR so GB could save a roster spot; thus the big loser. And I was betting money on him )
Did i miss something?

RIP Todd Christensen. A great TE with great hands, and a personable guy. One of several Raiders not in the Hall, but should be.

The Packers like Tolzien for the future, so unless he just gets hammered, he'll take all the snaps.

Cool. Now, in a couple years when Jacksonville moves to London...

Seriously, this may sound nuts, but if they brought back the Concord jet, there could be teams in Europe.

It feels like the early deaths are mounting nowadays. Not that there wasn´t NFL doping/painkiller-over-use & depression deaths earlier, but Payton, White, Waters, Duerson, Seau, Christensen, and so on in a relative short time is suspect. I guess there is more to come. It´s not "only" about concussions (I for example think spinal cord injured players coming or wanting come back like PM and Finley is downright scary and more telling about the dangers of football)... I think the NFL should do much more, otherwise it will really end like said on this article http://www.cbssports.com/general/wr...-pop-warner-football-doesnt-bode-well-for-nfl

You see Alpe, it works to give practise squad QBs a chance. There is no need to draft a new QB every year like some lousy teams do. Let´s see how Tolzien evolves. I hope GB doesn´t give up if he throws a couple of Ints. Every true starter does the same.

Concorde or not, the NFL had their chance. Many people are still pi$$ed when they gave up NFL europe. In germany it was a hit. Now football is back to lower standards here... And the NFL did stop only b/c they lost half a million per team. That´s what they throw at middle round draft round busts year-in year-out.

Trike - there was the small matter of the Concorde crash in Paris, remember?

But other jets crash(ed) too. It was a simple business choice. They lost money with the Concorde all the years. They used the accident as a scapegoat. Anyway, if NFL would pay big, i guess the Concords could come back.

Very brave picking the titans when they were 14 points up foxy

Yeah, I saw it today. Anyway, I just had a last look at cycnews before bed. Wasn´t interested in following the Titans-Colts, so I didn´t knew.
Nevertheless, I lost my pick anyway. I am 0 for 2 picking backup lead teams.

I picked the Panthers above, but this has historically be the type of game where Brady comes to life.

I fear the same. Hope Riverboat Ron makes some gutsy calls. He won´t have a chance if going back to his old coward ways. For now I trust him. He will match Belichick. It should be a great game...

 

[Tricycle Rider]

@TricRider... You sure u want to go with Tenn? QB Jake Locker is out for the season with a Lisfranc ligament tear in his foot.

I should have followed your advice, I don't even know how I missed that Locker injury report.

I have such a hard time with my picks when the starting QBs are either injured or out, so here goes nothing...

NY Jets
Chicago
Cincinnati
Tampa Bay
Arizona
Houston
San Diego
Philadelphia
Detroit
Denver (come on, Peyton, just put some duct tape around that ankle and you'll be fine)
Seattle
New Orleans
Green Bay
New England

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Locker has been hot/cold ever since entering the league. But this had been his best season. Fitzpatrick simply doesn't have the same arm, and holds onto the ball too long.

Foxxy is right on the Concorde. One very bad, videotaped crash was the scapegoat. It was the only crash in Concorde's history. Anyone over about 40 might remember all the DC-10's that crashed. But even when Boeing bought McDonnell-Douglas out, it didn't get rid of them. No, it was a money thing that killed Concorde. Plus, the design was rather old. But that is fixable.

So yes, bring it back, or get a new design. Have the NFL purchase two of them, and put teams in Berlin, Frankfurt, London and Amsterdam (or..?). Wikipedia states in 2005the Frankfurt Galaxy were filling almost 30,000 seats per game. With an increase in 2006 and 2007 before the league collapsed. I'd like to think this number could be double if it were a true NFL team, which puts it in the same attendance as an average NFL team in the US. If one of you Euros want to correct me, feel free to do so.

Wallace = backup backup backup (only to IR so GB could save a roster spot; thus the big loser. And I was betting money on him )
Did i miss something? :confused.

Yes, don't bet on football.

You see Alpe, it works to give practise squad QBs a chance. There is no need to draft a new QB every year like some lousy teams do. Let´s see how Tolzien evolves.

Remember, I didn't say teams should. I said many would look to the draft for a new QB as an answer to their problems. I listed my reasons for their thinking before. Not mine, theirs.

Meanwhile, it appears Terrell Pryor is questionable with knee injury. Considering he has exceeded all expectations of him, I'm going to guess if he's at all hurt, the Raiders won't risk playing him and sit him for a week or two. Which means undrafted rookie Matt McGloin will start. Matt did much better than expected in the pre-season and has a strong arm. The Raiders also have Tyler Wilson who they got in the draft. He is a big unknown. A real arm talent, and somewhat mobile. But he seemed lost in the pre-season most games, not up to the NFL's speed or schemes and is now on the practice squad. It remains to be seen if the Raiders call him up, or keep him there and just sign some vet to play behind McGloin if Pryor misses games.

I fear the same. Hope Riverboat Ron makes some gutsy calls. He won´t have a chance if going back to his old coward ways. For now I trust him. He will match Belichick. It should be a great game...

I agree with you 100%. Now is not the time to get conservative and think their defense is good enough since they beat SF. They do that and Brady will shred them apart. They have to be aggressive and take that risk.

 

[Amsterhammer]

I'm an old guy, and I'm getting a bit confused with all these backups, backup backups, and backup backup backups. We need some kind of shorthand annotation to make clear just how far down the pecking order some QB really is. Maybe Foxxy can come up with something simple enough?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Plus, the design was rather old. But that is fixable.

I love that design. Sometimes old is better than new. Err... most of times. Just remember the old US cars (70s). We called them "Straßenkreuzer" in germany. All gone. Now the US cars have the same design as all that $hitty japanese and europe cars. Ugly. They should have kept the designs but make the efficiency better. I tell you, Detroit would have no problem ifn´t copycat other countries cars.

Frankfurt Galaxy were filling almost 30,000 seats per game. With an increase in 2006 and 2007 before the league collapsed. I'd like to think this number could be double if it were a true NFL team, which puts it in the same attendance as an average NFL team in the US. If one of you Euros want to correct me, feel free to do so.

Frankfurt would be the best choice. No doubt about it. They were there since the beginning in 1991. Of course they would sell out every game if having a real NFL team, no matter of their record. And if the managers at NFL headquarters would be real smart, they would keep the name Galaxy. It´s a brand. Still.
London OTOH was crap. Not even 10.000 per game. They might fill Wembley once a year, but would struggle with 8/9 games per season. Especially if London would have bad seasons.

Yes, don't bet on football.

I´ll keep going. My time comes in the playoffs. Since I started two years ago, my record is great. And i am sure nothing will change this year, unless Nervous-Playoff-Peyton and his club win the SB.

Remember, I didn't say teams should. I said many would look to the draft for a new QB

OK. I think we are on the same page as most of times. Only Vick is the big exception.

undrafted rookie Matt McGloin will start.

Would be another great time to bet.
Not that the Raiders would win the game, but the spread would be big. The perfect set-up to bet against the spread. Can´t get better than this...

Edit: Just had a look at the line movements. They started at 6.5/7 on monday, now it´s up to 9/9.5. If it goes to 10.5 or higher, i´ll go again this week, this time betting against HOU covering the spread.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

NFL is not the best, this is the best american football leaque.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I'm an old guy, and I'm getting a bit confused with all these backups, backup backups, and backup backup backups. We need some kind of shorthand annotation to make clear just how far down the pecking order some QB really is. Maybe Foxxy can come up with something simple enough?

There is no simple way. When i made the QB-Stats since 1980, it was tough to even identify the true starter of some teams. For example NE couldn´t decide between Eason and Grogan. It was back and forth. And there was many such shuffles. GBs mixing was rather easy to identify.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

So who gives in? The best O (DEN) or the best D (KC).

If the old saying "defense wins championships" is true, then the KC-DEN game should be below the average of both teams scoring and allowing (371+238+215+111* divided by 18 games played by both teams so far = 51.9).

So who believes in the "defense saying" should say both teams score less than 52 points on sunday. Those who think great offenses have the advantage over great defenses should say there will be more than 52 points on sundays game.

I hope I get some picks here.

I´ll start. I say over 52 points. I believe offenses have the advantage since I follow football in the 80s.

(* = 371 points for DEN, 238 given up; 215 points for KC, 111 given up)

OK, I'll bite. You have a good memory BTW. But if I have to pick one I'll say under 52, just for the sake of argument . But to understand where I really come from on this, you have to read all of the following...

I think you may misconstrue the saying "defenses win championships". The saying is not necessarily reflected by the final score, or even by total yards allowed... although it can be. The saying is more about the attitude and heart of the defensive player than the results. For D to win championships all it takes is a few critical plays at key moments. You have heard the saying "bend but don't break" defense. Those kinds of defenses are described as allowing opposing teams to run up and down the field, but not allowing much scoring in the red zone. Or you have heard the saying "someone step up and make a big play", like takeaways. All it takes is one defensive stop to kill a drive. The bottom line of "defenses win championships" is that the defense does not allow scores when it counts, no matter how that happens or how much scoring goes on.

A good indicator of the saying "defenses win championships" is about attitude and heart is found wherever you find the saying displayed. Where do you find that saying displayed? Locker rooms and weight rooms.

So, over or under 52 total points allowed to me is not an indicator of the saying playing out. A better indicator might be takeaways or big stops during the game. But even that may not work, because how do you measure attitude or heart of a defensive player? The answer is you can't, or you can't very easily. But the players and coaches in the locker rooms, practice field, and playing field know who has it and who doesn't.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I been thinking and might be flipping here, but Concord or not, regular NFL games in Europe could work. Teams playing across the pond, especially teams west of the Mississippi, would have to pick a jumping off spot on the east coast the entire week prior to the overseas game. They'd practice there, film study there, everything would be done there. And they'd have to be mobile. But with computer / internet speed what it is now it is doable. Or for that matter, if Europe has the practice and training facilities (to treat injuries etc.) in one location, why not just spend the entire week in whatever European city they will play at? Just saying. I would not toss the idea out with the bathwater just yet.

 

[The Hitch]

So yes, bring it back, or get a new design. Have the NFL purchase two of them, and put teams in Berlin, Frankfurt, London and Amsterdam (or..?). Wikipedia states in 2005the Frankfurt Galaxy were filling almost 30,000 seats per game. With an increase in 2006 and 2007 before the league collapsed. I'd like to think this number could be double if it were a true NFL team, which puts it in the same attendance as an average NFL team in the US. If one of you Euros want to correct me, feel free to do so.

Where would you put these teams? to one conference but not the other?

If they were putting teams in europe, and I don't know that it would be successful, but if they were they should probably put that in 1 conference, eg AFC Europe and then add a division to the NFC titled NFC Latino or something. A team in San Antonio, a team in Brazil were NFL is quite popular amongst the middle class, San Diego or an LA team and then maybve Mexico city.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The saying is more about the attitude and heart of the defensive player than the results. For D to win championships all it takes is a few critical plays at key moments.

You know I have to disagree.

So lets start...
The same can and is said about OL players. The meanest like Conrad Dobler make it to infamous titles like elected "dirtiest NFL player". OL players don´t make it into positive headlines, but the game is won and lost in the trenches. Add a good QB behind a great OL, and there is nothing a D can do about it. I always remember the commentator in the IND-GB contest in 2004: "there is no way to defend a perfect pass". Absolutely spot on... BTW, both QBs lit up the scoreboard in that game.

Also for a O, a few key moments decide the games (the so-called big plays). And as you know as a veteran poster here, turnovers are random (except late game Ints).

You have heard the saying "bend but don't break" defense.

Myth debunked some years ago. Sorry for that.
Teams with better RZ results compared to their overall performance tend to regress to the mean. If not inside the same season, latest next year the "bend but don't break" is always gone (exception; NE of the 2000s, of course; but that is another story. I guess it had a lot to do with the shady stuff Beli-Cheat applied).

"someone step up and make a big play" ... The bottom line of "defenses win championships" is that the defense does not allow scores when it counts

That goes in the direction of "clutch performance". Myth also debunked some years ago. Players who have better performances in "clutch situations" than overall tend to regress to the mean. In other words: Player XY (or team, or D) is playing the same level in the 1st minute of a game as in the 59th minute. OTOH, studies found that "chokers" exist (BTW, I was one in baseball, and still am in billards). But players who can´t perform under pressure are sorted out well before they would make it to the NFL or MLB. There are very few exceptions: really great talents can make it to big leagues even tough they have a tendency to choke...

how do you measure attitude or heart of a defensive player? The answer is you can't, or you can't very easily.

Excactly. But what you can measure is points, yards, efficiency, etc...
All up in the playoffs trou-out the history of pro football, even tough the cold weather would let us assume otherwise.
Why is it so? See above.

OTOH, "defense wins championships" is certainly true in hockey, soccer, even snooker, and hell knows what else. Why? The rules there favour defense schemes, which are easier to apply than in-sync and sophisticated offensive schemes. And defensive schemes there can really destroy every highly trained offensive scheme. For example, there is no way Ovetchkin can gain anything with his skills and tricks if the little cute goal is walled up with a heavy padded goalie and 5 players defending just in front of him...

That is what makes football so great: "Catenaccio" tactics by less talented but mean players can´t stop innovative and in-sync offenses. And if that happens, the NFL just changes rules. That makes them light years above FIFAs Neanderthals rules.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

NFL is not the best, this is the best american football leaque.

Zam, you showed up in the wrong thread. Just kidding.

You know I have to disagree.

I knew you would. But I'm glad we can agree to disagree.

So lets start...

Let's stop right there.

The same can and is said about OL players. The meanest like Conrad Dobler ...

No question there are great offensive players and offensive plays. But here is typical what you seen in locker rooms:

You never see it the other way around (that "O" wins championships). There's a reason why that numbers do not express as I said before.
Just Saying.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Let's stop right there.

LMAO

But here is typical what you seen in locker rooms:

You never see it the other way around (that "O" wins championships).

Just motivational "speech" for some dumb defensive rednecks.
Good offensive players don´t need that kind of stuff. They know if they excel they are unstoppable.

There's a reason why that numbers do not express as I said before.
Just Saying.

Serious now. I know the reason why there are no numbers, studies or any other kind of evidence. B/c that saying is a myth. In real football life it just doesn´t exist.
Just remember the last SB champ. If Flacco wasn´t putting a string of his best games ever in there at the right time (january and february), the whatever great D would still wait for their 2nd SB. Actually they couldn´t even protect a 22 point lead for less than 30 minutes ifn´t helped by the refs. Or look over to CHI: They wait for a championship since BigMäc was relatively heahlty the last time in his life. That´s 27 years ago. The time he was injured, the D was even better in 84 & 86, yet early playoff exits.
Or my favourite: "Butter Ball" in PHI & ARZ. Buddy Ryan thought you can win with D alone. Sure he fielded great defenses in both cities after he left the Bears. But he didn´t understood that you can´t win 0-0 games.
What about the "purple people eaters"? ZILCH SB wins.
Nobody talks of one of the greatest defenses ever (the Rams of 73-78), but everybody of the "Steel curtain". Why? B/C the Steelers had a QB and great WRs. W/O them, no SB wins. LA OTOH was not so lucky. Thus zero SBs after finishing 6 years in a row (!) in the top 4 both in scoring defense and yards surrendered.
Ok. All that sounds like cherry picking.
So we have to look at numbers for some hard evidence:
http://community.advancednflstats.com/2011/02/defense-wins-championships.html

EDIT: Finally, a nugget just for you
AFIR this was the last time No. 1 offense vs. No. 1 defense game in the NFL. It was no contest. That great D was tattered by all means... The O didn´t even try to keep the D honest. Literally the winning team passed on every down until late in the game.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200712090nwe.htm

 

[Amsterhammer]

I know a lot of people who would love to see the Amsterdam Admirals back. I'd like to think Europe could take part on a bigger scale even without any SSTs. Yes of course, Concorde always made losses and the accident was a convenient reason, but it was also the catalyst for pulling the plug.


NYJ@BUF - Jets shouldn't lose to these Bills.
BAL@CHI - Head says Bears, heart says Ravens. Stupid goes with heart.
CLE@CIN - Bengals at home.
OAK@HOU - I guess they're paying people to watch this? Anything could happen, and probably will.
ARI@JAX - Should be a Cardinal win without too much fuss..
WAS@PHI - I'm sure we'll lose, but I have to pick positive.
DET@PIT - Steelers slightly less crap now, but I'll stick with the Lions..
ATL@TB - Falcons so disappointing, Bucs to win two in a row!
SD@MIA - I really hate having to pick Sandy Eggo, but I think the Fins are toast.
SF@NO - Home banker.
GB@NYG - Who knows what the Packer third string can do? C'mon, Eli.
MIN@SEA - Even bigger home banker..
KC@DEN - Game of the day, obviously. I just give Broncs the edge.
NE@CAR - Could really go either way. I'll gamble on the Pats.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I´ll go with every home team. Let´s see how i´ll fare against your all well founded picks.
Actually what I do here is random picking with banking on the home field advantage. Outside of JAX, I think i´ll have a good chance.
Not to offend anybody. Am just not tired and kill some time. But very sober, so no nonsense post like this one for the ages:

What you guys mean with ROY? Return on investment? There is no such thing. Remember the NFL is a socialist system where almost all money is shared.

Put down the lager!

Rookie of the Year

Not to be confused with ROI- Return on Investment.

You see. I surely pulled a boner. No excuse...

LOL! You guys are keeping me in stitches! ... put down the lager. Post of the thread maybe. And Foxxy gets A+ for the setup man.