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It is an issue IMO. You aren't around much so you might have missed my rants about the BS "arm extended" rhetoric. That isn't the rule. If kittle has a slight bend in his arm does that make it a completely different play? SF didn't challenge because they know they have no chance that the officials will check themselves. TA was just going with the rhetoric (reminder I'm a huge TA fan). I hope that its not the end of the story. The NFL has a problem that they probably won't do anything about as long as they are still making money.

Reid is CotY IMO. The culprit for the 49ers was KC!

Are you in KC? Did you go to the parade? I hope that everyone had a great time (well maybe not the guy in the car:)).
Something tells me that car man won't be attending any more parades anytime soon.......as for the refs and the rules.......where to start ? Still I'm glad it wasn't another Patriots win ! 49ers fans are still in mourning and of course the media are piling on Kyle and Jimmy. Missed opportunity but such is sport.
 
I don't want to sell anybody out (even though they were talking on the radio), but an explayer (HoF level), in response to a question about adding a game 'I'll play an extra game, but you have to give me something, maybe the marijuana thing...'. The first thing on his mind! Remind me why they can't use this? I don't want to hear about some antiquated law that the old school southern cig companies got put on the books. Ask players about the legal stuff, ask Favre... What are the old people afraid of? 'You can drink booze and eat prescrips all day long, but don't use that hippy weed...'. FYI: even if it is legal, it likely won't be my choice, but adults should have that choice.
 
It is an issue IMO. You aren't around much so you might have missed my rants about the BS "arm extended" rhetoric. That isn't the rule. If kittle has a slight bend in his arm does that make it a completely different play? SF didn't challenge because they know they have no chance that the officials will check themselves. TA was just going with the rhetoric (reminder I'm a huge TA fan). I hope that its not the end of the story. The NFL has a problem that they probably won't do anything about as long as they are still making money.

Reid is CotY IMO. The culprit for the 49ers was KC!

Are you in KC? Did you go to the parade? I hope that everyone had a great time (well maybe not the guy in the car:)).
Section 5, Article 2, (g) Initiating contact with an opponent by shoving or pushing off, thus creating separation. That's what Kittle did. That's what most OPI calls sanction...

I now live in Virginia, unfortunately I couldn't be there, but somehow I always end-up back in Kansas City. So it may not be for the one breaking the drought, but chances are I will be at one parade someday. The Chiefs could be a factor for the 5, maybe 10 years. I believe that KC can win another one or two.
 
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I don't want to sell anybody out (even though they were talking on the radio), but an ex-player (HoF level), in response to a question about adding a game 'I'll play an extra game, but you have to give me something, maybe the marijuana thing...'. The first thing on his mind! Remind me why they can't use this?
I think it would be a big mistake to tie those two together. If the NFLPA does that, or allows the league to do that, it would be a mistake.

Put another way, 11 states have already made it legal to use for the most part. If I count right, there are nine teams that play in those states. That's more than a quarter of the league where players reside. Next, there are a slew of states, even "red" states, that have decriminalized it or allowed it's use for medical reasons (like, pain). It's only a matter of time before this is national policy. So, if it's legal in many states, and approved for medical use and decriminalized in most of the country, why in the hell would the league even bother testing for it, unless they are simply looking for patterns, the way they may for alcohol abuse, to see if a player needs help? The only other thing is if they're going to try to convince everyone it's performance enhancing, which is just laughably absurd.

Put another way, the NFLPA should take a hard stand and push the NFL to at the very least follow what MLB, or even the NHL has done. This should have nothing to do with forcing the players to play even more games.

https://www.marijuanamoment.net/mlb-officially-removes-marijuana-from-banned-substances-list-for-baseball-players/

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/26046596/is-nhl-future-marijuana-pro-sports-why-be
 
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Section 5, Article 2, (g) Initiating contact with an opponent by shoving or pushing off, thus creating separation. That's what Kittle did. That's what most OPI calls sanction...

I now live in Virginia, unfortunately I couldn't be there, but somehow I always end-up back in Kansas City. So it may not be for the one breaking the drought, but chances are I will be at one parade someday. The Chiefs could be a factor for the 5, maybe 10 years. I believe that KC can win another one or two.
I tried to reply last night but the thread was gone.

My point this time and in my other rants about this is that simply extending or having your arm extended is not a penalty.

Kittle and the D were hand fighting (could have been a ticky-tack D PI).
Kittle out runs the D and clears him (separation crated by being faster).
The D reaches out so Kittle reaches back to block the grab.
Kittle's arm is 95% extended before it even touches the D shoulder.
The extended arm does not create the separation.
Kittle is still running away from the D, not pushing away.
The D fell forward* (toward Kittle), not backward (not shoved away).

As someone else posted, Kitle didn't need to reach back but his natural reaction was to fight off the grab.

Maybe I'll watch it again, but in live speed and the several replays I saw, the separation was not created by pushing off.

*His head may have come up, but that is more a reaction on his part than a reaction of contact. I'll look at this if i watch it again.
 
I tried to reply last night but the thread was gone.

My point this time and in my other rants about this is that simply extending or having your arm extended is not a penalty.

Kittle and the D were hand fighting (could have been a ticky-tack D PI).
Kittle out runs the D and clears him (separation crated by being faster).
The D reaches out so Kittle reaches back to block the grab.
Kittle's arm is 95% extended before it even touches the D shoulder.
The extended arm does not create the separation.
Kittle is still running away from the D, not pushing away.
The D fell forward* (toward Kittle), not backward (not shoved away).

As someone else posted, Kitle didn't need to reach back but his natural reaction was to fight off the grab.

Maybe I'll watch it again, but in live speed and the several replays I saw, the separation was not created by pushing off.

*His head may have come up, but that is more a reaction on his part than a reaction of contact. I'll look at this if i watch it again.

That's not how I saw it. Kittle got a gap on Sorensen but Sorensen closed it. As the pass was coming in Kittle pushed Sorensen away and that's what created the gap. Sorensen's upper body clearly becomes more upright as Kittle extends his arm. Of course he's not going to fall backwards, because physics, but I don't think anyone is claiming that a straight arm is part of the rule, they are just saying that this is what caused the separation from Sorensen. It's item (g) of article 2, section 5 in rule 8:


Initiating contact with an opponent by shoving or pushing off, thus creating separation
My issue with the call now I've refreshed the actual wording of the rule is this; the rule applies to players who are trying to catch the ball. Sorensen isn't trying to catch the ball and I don't see any intent to do so. You could argue the shove stopped him trying, but he doesn't once check over his shoulder or try and determine when the ball is coming. The shove is too close to Kittle catching the ball for me to believe he was going to make an attempt for it, I think he was hoping to either knock it loose, strip it or had accepted Kittle would catch it if it was thrown to him and just wanted to be there to tackle him when he did. If anything, that's what I would say means it isn't OPI.
 
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That's not how I saw it. Kittle got a gap on Sorensen but Sorensen closed it. As the pass was coming in Kittle pushed Sorensen away and that's what created the gap. Sorensen's upper body clearly becomes more upright as Kittle extends his arm. Of course he's not going to fall backwards, because physics, but I don't think anyone is claiming that a straight arm is part of the rule, they are just saying that this is what caused the separation from Sorensen. It's item (g) of article 2, section 5 in rule 8:




My issue with the call now I've refreshed the actual wording of the rule is this; the rule applies to players who are trying to catch the ball. Sorensen isn't trying to catch the ball and I don't see any intent to do so. You could argue the shove stopped him trying, but he doesn't once check over his shoulder or try and determine when the ball is coming. The shove is too close to Kittle catching the ball for me to believe he was going to make an attempt for it, I think he was hoping to either knock it loose, strip it or had accepted Kittle would catch it if it was thrown to him and just wanted to be there to tackle him when he did. If anything, that's what I would say means it isn't OPI.
Your are wrong! ;) Just kidding! We just disagree. I will however stay on the war path about the stupid arm extended rhetoric. I like the issue you pointed out.
 
Your are wrong! ;) Just kidding! We just disagree. I will however stay on the war path about the stupid arm extended rhetoric. I like the issue you pointed out.
I'm now much more coming round to that it shouldn't have been called, because Sorensen wasn't trying to catch it. If he'd looked at any point I'd be adamant it was OPI, but the law states it only applies if the incident significantly hindered a players chance to catch the ball and it clearly didn't.
 
I'm now much more coming round to that it shouldn't have been called, because Sorensen wasn't trying to catch it. If he'd looked at any point I'd be adamant it was OPI, but the law states it only applies if the incident significantly hindered a players chance to catch the ball and it clearly didn't.
The other thing that bothers me about that call is that it might get called 2 times out of 10 during the season, but in the biggest game of the year it gets called?! Its also similar to O holding in that it can be called on most plays but only gets called on big plays.
 
jmdirt thanks for the Alex update. He did so much for KC and was unselfish: he showed the ropes to Mahomes, and it paid off.

Mayfield (watch that college game vs. Mahomes TT - classic) is paying the price for not having that environment as a rookie...thrown to the lions, successes, but also lack of readiness when it comes to approaching a NFL season, digesting a big play book, dealing with adversity. All these guys coming into the NFL have won so much in high school, college, they are not ready to be punched in the face, lose four in a row, and still be cool and collected. They lose it. Cry for their mom.

Get well Alex.

For the one call this and one call that, I wish the Chiefs had been down deeper and more earlier. Because with their back against the wall, they open up the whoop ass can and machine gun the opponent. Best offense since Kurt Warner and the GSOT. And I would argue: better. Faster.

The come-back kids did it once again...a lesson of resiliency. Never give up. Believe, give it all, make something special.
 
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jmdirt thanks for the Alex update. He did so much for KC and was unselfish: he showed the ropes to Mahomes, and it paid off.

Mayfield (watch that college game vs. Mahomes TT - classic) is paying the price for not having that environment as a rookie...thrown to the lions, successes, but also lack of readiness when it comes to approaching a NFL season, digesting a big play book, dealing with adversity. All these guys coming into the NFL have won so much in high school, college, they are not ready to be punched in the face, lose four in a row, and still be cool and collected. They lose it. Cry for their mom.

Get well Alex.

For the one call this and one call that, I wish the Chiefs had been down deeper and more earlier. Because with their back against the wall, they open up the whoop ass can and machine gun the opponent. Best offense since Kurt Warner and the GSOT. And I would argue: better. Faster.

The come-back kids did it once again...a lesson of resiliency. Never give up. Believe, give it all, make something special.
I wonder about Baker...if he had played behind a vet QB1 for a year , could he be better (add in at a better organization)? Is there still a chance for him? IMO no matter what he is no Pat or Lamar.

There are examples all over the board of ways that QB careers go: Troy Aikman (rookie start) could have just quit football after his rookie season, but we know how his career eventually turned out- SBs, HoF! Russell Wilson (rookie start) had a solid rookie season, went to the next two SBs (winning one). Now we have Pat and Lamar (rookie sit) who are tearing it up, but Rosen (rookie start) who is crushed. And, there are examples everywhere in between. Rodgers (behind Favre)? What a bout the other rookies struggling now? Obviously factors like the organization (coaches, GM, owner...), and the other 70 or so players play a role, but I wonder what the numbers look like? Merckx can you crunch those numbers? :)

EDIT: also obviously it depends on the individual persons' mentality of course (which bring the question back to Baker...)
 
If I were to say a couple reasons why the XFL might be a success this time, and where the AAF wasn't, are:

• Vince McMahon - He has a lot more money now than he did when he tried the XFL years ago, and he's willing to sink in over a half billion dollars of his own money to get the league going. He's a very savvy businessman, and arguably the best promoter or marketer in the world. He's also smart enough to hire Oliver Luck, and mostly stay out of the way, it looks like entirely out of the way when it comes to actual operations and running the league.

• It will be on both TV, and the internet. The previous time around McMahon/WWE couldn't charge, and had to essentially pay NBC to broadcast the games (as did the AAF) years ago. This time they aren't doing that. Some of the games will be on Fox, some on ABC/ESPN, FS1, and there remains the option of WWE's own channel, and all will be available on the net, crafted to where revenue will go back to the XFL (and McMahon).

• The pay for players will be better, and they will have more name players than the AAF. This allows the league to lure players like Landry Jones to play for them saying "would you rather be stuck in back-up limbo, or play in the XFL for a little less money, and a chance to be a star?"

• They have better coaches than the AAF could afford. In fact, quite a few of the coaches could, maybe should, be coaching in the NFL. Also deeper pockets in the league mean better coaching and support staff across the board.

• At first I thought the city locations were a mistake, now I think they are smart. Going to big markets increases chances of revenue. Yes, a few games could be in nasty winter weather, but enough fans, and players won't mind, compared to the market sizes.

• There was nothing wrong with the play in the AAF, other than it lacked stars, specifically at QB. The rules were good, and the pace of the game good. The XFL will have similar rules, move quick, and has better players.
 
I'm watching the first game of the XFL right now and so far not bad.

One thing I am liking of the rules is the kick off rule. Kicker kicks from a normal location (around the 10), receiver is back at a normal place but the two teams are lined up receiving team on the 30 and kicking team on the 35. The hope is to reduce injuries.
 
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I'm watching the first game of the XFL right now and so far not bad.

One thing I am liking of the rules is the kick off rule. Kicker kicks from a normal location (around the 10), receiver is back at a normal place but the two teams are lined up receiving team on the 30 and kicking team on the 35. The hope is to reduce injuries.
I like the kickoff too. Its safer, but still allows for a return. I only watched the fist two possessions because I wen to my LBS to look at a new bike! :p
 
I wonder about Baker...if he had played behind a vet QB1 for a year , could he be better (add in at a better organization)? Is there still a chance for him? IMO no matter what he is no Pat or Lamar.

There are examples all over the board of ways that QB careers go: Troy Aikman (rookie start) could have just quit football after his rookie season, but we know how his career eventually turned out- SBs, HoF! Russell Wilson (rookie start) had a solid rookie season, went to the next two SBs (winning one). Now we have Pat and Lamar (rookie sit) who are tearing it up, but Rosen (rookie start) who is crushed. And, there are examples everywhere in between. Rodgers (behind Favre)? What a bout the other rookies struggling now? Obviously factors like the organization (coaches, GM, owner...), and the other 70 or so players play a role, but I wonder what the numbers look like? Merckx can you crunch those numbers? :)

EDIT: also obviously it depends on the individual persons' mentality of course (which bring the question back to Baker...)
Next season is an important one for Baker and Trubisky.Trubisky looked a bit better towards the end of the season. Both of them though could end up as back ups if they have another mediocre season. Goff also needs to get back on track but the Rams collectively need to bounce back. Other QB issues at the Jags and Panthers will also have to be addressed. Foles was injured but didn't return well. Winston is another one who looks great for half a game and terrible for the other. He just can't stop turning the ball over it seems. Allen made some strides but the Texans game in the playoffs showed that he still has a way to go. The Bills should have won that game. The Chargers and the Raiders also have to get the QB position sorted out and Haskins and Jones still have a way to go at the Redskins and Giants but once again that is the entire team not just the QB.
 
I tested a Spark 910 last summer and liked it a lot. I really liked their shock lockout system, a step up from what Giant has done. I also liked the way it was mostly a trail bike, but could be raced in something like XCM if one wanted. The only thing I didn't like about it was the front end seemed "floppy" to me. Granted, I'm coming from a 2014 Szd Camber, which most people think of as "twitchy". I also live in New England where there aren't a lot of trails with flow. We have endless tiny hills, but very few you can climb then bomb down, and most trails are tight, intricate and rocky/rooty. So if you didn't notice the "floppy" feel, I'd say go for it.

Wait, this is a football site. Why are we talking about cycling? :oops:
 
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