New equipment...All advert hype?

[mtrejt]

Just thought I'd get some advice from some of the impartial cranks, curmageons, naysayers and self appointed experts. I'm thinking of a new frame, but I'm wondering if all of the carbon crap out there is just hype and a fad. I used to have an aluminum lugged carbon bike that was stolen, and rode a friend's Trek 5000. I hated the Trek which felt sluggish and dead, and although I liked my old carbon bike, my favorite ride remains my 1998 Cannondale (just rode 342km on it yesterday). The only other bikes I've ever owned were either steel or aluminum. Some do seem to like carbon frames however.

I do know that it is not all marketing and hype. My Ultegra 10 works better than my DA 9, and the DA 9 works better than my Shimano 600. Likewise, despite what anyone says, my ancient HED Alps and Trispokes are faster than either of my 32 hole, box section training wheelsets (DT Swiss 1.2 and Velocity Aerohead/Ultegra). So anyway, carbon frames, marketing hype or do they really improve ride quality? What about all of the baffling BB options?

 

[forty four]

they really improve ride quality put simply i was on aluminum it beats you up much more than a good carbon frame.

 

[ProfTournesol]

IMHO the frame geometry and quality is more important than the material, a good steel or Al frame will beat a bad carbon frame every time. Companies talk about the frame material but put little emphasis on the more important geometry.

 

[centurionomega]

Here's an impartial breakdown.

Steel Trek 610. Reynolds 531 lugged steel frame. This is the nicest steel frame that I have ridden, but it still feels kinda slow and deliberate, even when going 22 mph on the flats.

Cheapo $69 ebay aluminum frame. Really light, and good with carbon forks. It is feels kinda brittle riding down the street, but it is snappy. Getting new wheels helped this bike.

Look 555. I was just marveling the other day how this carbon frame bike just goes when I put some effort into it. Maybe it is the light weight of the whole bike, but it really carves in turns, climbs great, and can really sprint.

I guess if you can afford it, buy a bike.

 

[kiwirider]

I'll declare my hand and say I'm a huge Cannondale fan - I've got a Six13, an X6 'cross bike, a 1999 F4000 hardtail and a carbon Scalpel.

I've always enjoyed the ride of alloy bikes. They're lively and feel more responsive than the carbon frames, which generally feel dead to me. (Before someone questions my choice of the carbon Scalpel - it was a crash damage replacement - thanks again Cannondale for looking after me - and I had the choice of the carbon or wait 3 months for an alloy ...)

I am currently living in Ottawa and use the cross bike for everything from cross racing, to training on (very rocky) forest trails, to a road bike. I get a really good ride out of it - even with road tyres pumped to 100psi on Québec roads (J'aime Québec - just not the road maintenance there ...)

Similarly, riding the Six13 on NZ roads has always been fine. Oh, and for those who haven't had the dubious pleasure of getting to know NZ road surfaces - a NZ pro who I know tells me that training on NZ roads is the closest thing he can get to riding the cobbles in France and Belguim!

At various times I have gone through the same series of questions about carbon and whether I should follow the flock ... I mean pack. I've ridden road bikes, tri bikes (I was doing duathlons for a while) and, most recently, cross bikes. Overwhelmingly I've been left with one or more of the following impressions (with the bike that I rode in each case listed in brackets in each case):
- the bike rides slower than my alloy frame or the manufacturer's equivalent alloy bike if there is one (eg. Cervelo P3C vs the alloy P2 ... and the various carbon bikes that I beat in the cross season ... )
- the ride is smoother - but at the same time it feels dead (eg., Cervelo, DeVinci, Stevens, Specialized);
- there is a slight improvement - but not enough to justify the extra money spent on a frame (eg., Stevens and Kuota) - especially when doing something like fitting a carbon seat post or a full carbon fork makes a huge difference (I transformed an alloy Bianchi XL EV2 by swapping the alloy seatpost for a carbon seatpost);
- there is no discernable difference (eg., comparing a carbon GT hardtail to my 10 year old hardtail)

None of this will match with what you read in the various magazines and on websites ... I could offer you my thoughts on reasons for the various reviews, but will just say "don't believe what you read - ride as many bikes as you can and believe what you feel instead" ...

Over all, I think that the most sensible thing to do with carbon is to use it sparingly and sensibly on an alloy framed bike. The obvious example I'm thinking of is my Six13 - and the few other examples of similar bikes out there. The carbon sections in the top tube and down tube take some of the buzz out the road, but the fact that the frame is primarily alloy - and, importantly the fact that the rear end is alloy - keeps the liveliness and responsiveness of the bike. Worth checking out - especially if you've already discovered the joys of Cannondale!

Oh, and in case you are wondering, based on when my partner was working with a couple of pro teams recently, there are still an amazing number of alloy bikes being ridden in the pro peletons around the world - so don't let anyone say to you that "all the pros are on carbon, so why wouldn't you be too?!" And besides, pro equipment choices are a function of advertising and sales of the sponsors' products ...

I'll now sit back and wait to count how many people slam me for being an anti-carbon dinosaur ...

 

[deboat]

I think the most important thing in getting a new frame is in this order...
fitment
geometry
weight
paint
colour
brand....

Having a frame that fits you and suit your riding style makes a more enjoyable ride.
I own, carbon(Colnago C50), alloy(Klein Q pro) , alloy (Trek 8500) , and have owned a Ti bike and loads of steel bikes.

 

[runninboy]

...

Oh, and in case you are wondering, based on when my partner was working with a couple of pro teams recently, there are still an amazing number of alloy bikes being ridden in the pro peletons around the world - so don't let anyone say to you that "all the pros are on carbon, so why wouldn't you be too?!" And besides, pro equipment choices are a function of advertising and sales of the sponsors' products ...

I'll now sit back and wait to count how many people slam me for being an anti-carbon dinosaur ...

I agree. Besides being a "dinosaur" myself, i have noticed every once in awhile a magazine will a have a very small blurb about a riders alloy race bike.
Usually followed by the riders disclaimer that he is "temporarily" racing this bike while his new, fully custom carbon model gets the last few details finished. I remember one young rider being brutally honest in one mag claiming that he much preferred the older alloy model so he would continue to ride it until they made him stop. Then he caught himself and said something along the lines of "I guess i am not really sophisticated or experienced enough to fully appreciate the carbon frame"

I have been riding Giant TCR alloy frames for 9 years. I like the ones from about 2003 best. I have never felt "beat up" however i ride handuilt wheels, 32 hole box for training. When i race, my carbon wheels are faster, but they really change the ride. If i was on carbon wheels all day everyday maybe the carbon frame would soften the ride.

Try some custom handbuilt wheels, besides throwing some money to a good local builder instead of a faceless corporation, it is a much better investment.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Just upgrade the parts on your Cannondale! The new components are expensive--but only if you fall for the hype. Try out 105 or Veloce (Or the Sram equilvalent. Force?); they're actually really nice groupsets, and more than most cyclists will ever need. And it feels good to drop the guy on the Prince or Cervelo with full Record on a 5% grade when you're riding what he considers Fisher Price level components.

If you do get a new frame, remember that most frames are built by the same people in Taiwan. Just like with Record or Dura Ace, you're paying for a sticker. But I would KILL for a Time; those things are like butter (and I think Time even makes their own carbon in France). I ride a steel Fondriest now, but the carbon Times have a superior ride quality (read: comfort), not to mention being lighter & stiffer. But they're not as stiff as the Look 595 or a BH or a Scott, all of which are a bit too harsh for my taste.

But **** it, build up the Cannondale if it's your favorite. No point in blowing a couple thousand on some new stupid plastic frame if you already have what you like.

 

[LugHugger]

Just upgrade the parts on your Cannondale! The new components are expensive--but only if you fall for the hype. Try out 105 or Veloce (Or the Sram equilvalent. Force?); they're actually really nice groupsets, and more than most cyclists will ever need. And it feels good to drop the guy on the Prince or Cervelo with full Record on a 5% grade when you're riding what he considers Fisher Price level components.

If you do get a new frame, remember that most frames are built by the same people in Taiwan. Just like with Record or Dura Ace, you're paying for a sticker. But I would KILL for a Time; those things are like butter (and I think Time even makes their own carbon in France). I ride a steel Fondriest now, but the carbon Times have a superior ride quality (read: comfort), not to mention being lighter & stiffer. But they're not as stiff as the Look 595 or a BH or a Scott, all of which are a bit too harsh for my taste.

But **** it, build up the Cannondale if it's your favorite. No point in blowing a couple thousand on some new stupid plastic frame if you already have what you like.

+1 Excellent post, Mr Tibbs, although i think that if you are a racer then you are entitled to a different opinion (I'm not!). Like you, I'm a steel frame rider, hand built clincher wheels and a 'mid' level grouppo (SRAM Rival). Probably 50% of my peer group ride this type of set up in varying way shapes and forms. Perfect for the local chain gang and sportives. For reference, my 52cm equivalent bike weighs approx 8kgs/17.5lbs.

 

[Sheltowee]

I've just finished building a 2009 CAAD9 with 7800 Durace and Kyrsium SLs. The gruppo came from a 07 Giant TCR 0 which I inherited from my wife and was too small despite risers, Longer stems etc. At a liitle over 6' it just wouldn't fit me. I am very happy with the Cannondale. It's very stiff it's great on descents and absolutely fantastic out of corners. I say stick with the Cdale if that's what you like. The CAAD9 is a great frame and I hope they don't stop producing them.

 

[Irish2009]

I've recently moved from Campagnolo 10spd Record to 11spd Chorus. I had wanted 11spd Super record but budget wouldn't allow it. In the last week I got to ride a bike with 11spd Super Record, the only difference I liked was the all black rear derailleur, other than that I couldn't tell any difference. Money saved, however I do prefer 11(12/25) to 10(13/26 or 12/23) as I don't have to change blocks depending on event and the ergo's suit my hands better. As for frames my last 3 frames have been carbon and very different to ride but my favorite frame of all was my vitus 992. Don't believe the hype.

 

[Mark Andrews]

My favorite bike is my late '80s SLX Guerciotti. It beats as far as I'm concerned, it beats the feel of aluminum. I haven't had the opportunity to spend any real time riding on carbon, so I don't have that to compare.

 

[Dude17]

Good read here

 

[Milessio]

Nearly all is either hype, preconception or biased, and very little is based on any real facts.

This is also interesting:

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2009/08/dynamic-ride-comfort-measuring.html

 

[Barracuda]

Tend to agree with majority of posters and say just add bits and pieces to the frame you like already ....

Would love a Pinnarelo Prince but now wondering whether its just for the bling factor.

I have a "US Postal edition" Alloy Trek but have ditched the "come one come all" wheels for some Mavics with Vittoria Rubino Pro tyres and put on a 12/27 Durace cassette and feels great ..... relatively old and by todays standard cheap bike .. but love the feel and the ride .. and having said that cant justify a new full Carbon beast.

 

[Steampunk]

I am currently living in Ottawa and use the cross bike for everything from cross racing, to training on (very rocky) forest trails, to a road bike. I get a really good ride out of it - even with road tyres pumped to 100psi on Québec roads (J'aime Québec - just not the road maintenance there ...)

Wow! That is high praise; my Volvo doesn't like Quebec roads!

 

[kiwirider]

Wow! That is high praise; my Volvo doesn't like Quebec roads!

Hey, it's a Cannondale! You'd expect that they'd have got alloy right after all of these years, ay?!


Then again, it may just be the Shi-t-mano wheels on it - super flexy things that never stay in true from one race to the next ... Will have to see if I still like the ride when I get my new set of handbuilts on there ...

 

[Black Dog]

The roads here in Quebec are smooth and silky or full of holes that can swallow a volvo. Not much in between. It is like everywhere...you have to know where to go.

Back to the topic at hand. You need a large shovel to dig through all the marketing BS before you can find a small nugget of fact. The bike industry sells sizzle and not steak.

 

[TheDude]

Take the frame that you like and put on a nice Campagnolo Centaur set on it (not much more than Veloce) and get nice wheels. I use a Record-hub 32 3-cross box rim wheel for daily pothole rides. Thinking of getting a pair of Zondas for fun on the weekend.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I use a Record-hub 32 3-cross box rim wheel for daily pothole rides.

TheDude abides.

 

[Nevermind]

Québec roads often make the cobbles of Paris-Roubaix like smooth Tarmac and sadly, this is not a joke. Like Black Dog said, you NEED to know where to ride. Also, forget about riding a tire for 5000 miles. I've got 2500km on my set of Michelin Krylion Carbon and I'm impressed and happy.

That being said, I must agree with whoever said a good carbon frame is worth it, but a bad one isn't. I personnaly love the feel of carbon, but you need to find a geometry and a frame that suits your style.

 

[Black Dog]

Québec roads often make the cobbles of Paris-Roubaix like smooth Tarmac and sadly, this is not a joke. Like Black Dog said, you NEED to know where to ride. Also, forget about riding a tire for 5000 miles. I've got 2500km on my set of Michelin Krylion Carbon and I'm impressed and happy.

So very true! I ride the krylions and get no more than 3000km out of them! Still better than any other tire I have tried.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

2,000 miles and worn down to the casing. I'm rolling Conti 4000 GP right now, a little more expensive, but very similar feel and just as durable as the Kylions.

 

[Nevermind]

We are gonna start selling Continental tires at the store where I work so you can expect me to join the Conti club soon. But I must say I like my Krylion Carbon a lot and might just stick with them if we keep selling Michelin tires.

 

[google2008e]

training equipments

This is a new and fashionable sport, which is spreading around the world!
Now let's enter a new age of professional jump to enjoy the endless joy!
The product is suitable for the following groups:
People who seek healthy life
People who pursue fashion sport
People who want to raise up and lose weight
People who love body training and entertainment
People who desire for confidence
People who is keen on street fashion

Once you own the product, you will be the pacemaker at the forefront of fashion!


1.Speed&leaping ability: training you jump higher and run faster
2.Fitness:15min's jumping=30 min's jogging = consuming 297 calories
3.Keep your bones healthy: beneficial to stretch, protect bones and train your bones.
4.Recreation&Entertainment:a new fashionable sport brings you new joyful feelings.
5.Extreme Sport: professional equipment makes you more professional, more self-confident
welcome to www,google2008,com